Sansa of House Stark (ADWD spoiler)

[The Imp]

The thought occurred to me when thinking about Arya warging into the cat (when she saw that the Kindly man was attacking her). There is no reason to believe that Sansa isn't a warg. I think we have been selling her short because of the death of Lady.

Admittedfy, she isn't part of the Stark "pack" in the true sense of the word, but it SEEMS as if all of the Stark kids, including Jon, are wargs, and we know that warging is an ability that one is born with. The death of her wolf should not prevent Sansa from using that power. She just needs to be taught, given that right now she has no clue that she can do this.

I have a feeling that Sansa will become a very formidable character in TWOW.

 

[vanslyke]

I've been waiting for Sansa to bust outta her frail little princess role for the entire series. It has to happen. As to her "warging"...your absolutely right. After being re-united (hopefully) with the rest of the Starks maybe she'll be taught. Or it will take a near-death experience to bring it out of her. Since she hasn't had wolf dreams like the rest to awaken it.

 

[Needle]

I am in full agreement Imp. Sansa should have the same abilities as the other Starks but with Lady dead she has no wolf to dream with. How she will find this ability may be pretty interesting in itself.

I too believe she has a major part to play. I have said before (and been vigorously argued with!) that Sansa is heir to Winterfell and will become Lady of the Vale as well. I even hope that Harry the Heir turns out to be a decent guy and maybe she will even gain some happiness! My question is does she get to take out Littlefinger?!

 

[juleska]

Well I certainly hope you guys are right, it would be nice to see Sansa do something useful for once. As far as I can tell Sansa is the only truly expendable Stark but Martin keeps killing off or maiming all the ones I like.

 

[Ursa major]

Like Arya (and Dany, for that matter), Sansa is in training. At Winterfell, she learnt the "what a great lady should do while someone else is ruling the country" stuff: needlework, good manners and the like. And Sansa was more than okay with that: with her fairytale view of life, she thought that those skills would serve her whether as great lord's wife, princess or queen. Sad to say, even if Sansa had wanted to learn more, I don't think Ned or Cat would have been the right persons to teach her.

(By contrast with Sansa's early attitude, I think Cersei has always wanted to wield power, but she too wasn't taught to do it: her father thought of her as someone who could be married for Lannister advantage. The results of this are there for all to see.)

Now Littlefinger is teaching Sansa her how to wield power, how to play the Game of Thrones, and properly, by influence, by manoeuvring, like Tywin did it: on the battlefield, in the halls of power, at his writing desk. Sansa is lucky; she's probably got the best teacher available. Whatever finally happens to Littlefinger, he's become a true power in the land despite having no natural power base. Build that training on top of Sansa's real dynastic power (albeit potential and far from secure), and who knows how far Sansa could go?


(And wouldn't it be rather fun if Sansa could take over (by warging) one of Dany's dragons just when Dany thinks she's about to conquer all.)

 

[The Imp]

One of the things about warging that is really interesting is a warg can "inhabit" another person. Bran has done it with hodor, although Hodor hates it, and Varamyr was at least able to attempt is with thistle, although that didn't work out too well for him.

Sansa taking control of Cersei, forcing her to drink poison, then getting out before she dies.

Sweet.

 

[Mesanna]

Sansa taking control of Cersei, forcing her to drink poison, then getting out before she dies.

Sweet.

Now that is devious thinking!!

I wonder if Arya will ever figure out that she can warg into people. That could be a very useful skill for a Faceless Man.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I suppose it's possible, but Sansa so far has been my least favourite Stark.

For me, she would have to undergo a complete and utter transformation from who and what she is to become a truly worthy leader.

Call me a cynic, but I don't see it happening. She will undoubtedly have a larger role to play (Martin wouldn't have kept her around needlessly) but I think her importance will be more as a proxy to some major event, rather than her 'being' the major event.

 

[devilsgrin]

theres a significant difference between being a Leader and wielding power. Littlefinger and the Queen of Thorns are the perfect examples of those who wield power, but who, themselves, are not leaders. Sansa is shaping up to be exactly that type of player. But in her favour, is the authoritative mien of a scion of House Stark. Whatever fairy-tale bullspit she was raised to believe would happen, she is most certainly not that girl anymore. She has learned the hard way. And, personally, i think she's learned her lessons in a much harsher fashion than Arya or Jon (Bran has perhaps learned the realities of life in the harshest, and at the same time, the simplest of ways)

 

[vanslyke]

Sansa marrying Aegon?? Or will it go down like it "should" with him and Dany marrying?

 

[devilsgrin]

I think Aegon could very easily end up married to Dany AND Sansa - especially since Dany can't have any more children...

 

[JagLover]

I think Aegon could very easily end up married to Dany AND Sansa - especially since Dany can't have any more children...

Personally I doubt Aegon will be there at the end, and so won't be marrying anyone.

I am very suspicious of a supposedly 'major' character that has been introduced in book 5 of a 7-8 book series.

We shall have to wait and see

 

[Ursa major]

I am very suspicious of a supposedly 'major' character that has been introduced in book 5 of a 7-8 book series.

He'll be in at least one more book than Ned, who was definitely a major character, and Robert, who while being a less important character, did manage to be the King of Westeros.

(And yes, I know that neither of these are good examples of characters that have staying power.)


Frankly, we may not have even met, face to face, the final** occupant of the Iron Throne. I'm not sure that the series is defined by the game of thrones, even though it's obviously one of the most significant threads. We've had plenty of occupants (including regents) of the throne, but the tale continues. The fate of the seven kingdoms, possible the whole of that world, is more likely to be focus from now on. (Or perhaps not.)




** - By which I mean the King (or Queen) in power at the end of the series.

 

[JagLover]

Frankly, we may not have even met, face to face, the final** occupant of the Iron Throne.

GRRM has usually followed Chekhov's gun in this series.

If Dany is given some supposedly dead dragon's eggs at the start of book 1, then they hatch at the end, and so forth.

The way he works to such a long term plan, dropping hints along the way, I believe that the eventual occupier/occupiers at the end will be a character introduced at the start.

Dany and Jon, POV characters from the start

Stannis talked about in book 1, introduced in book 2.

In contrast most readers couldn't care less about Aegon and his prime purpose simply seems to be to introduce confusion in the middle stages of the book.

 

[Ursa major]

I was merely trying to point out that by the end of the series, the identity of the occupant of the Iron Throne, if there is one, may not be that important (or could even be irrelevant). I'm not saying this is my prediction, only that it's possible.

We've already seen three occupants (plus two Regents), not to mention various claimants. I think I might be somewhat disappointed if all the events of the books were merely there to get a particular character onto that throne. The story is far bigger than that.

 

[Mesanna]

I was merely trying to point out that by the end of the series, the identity of the occupant of the Iron Throne, if there is one, may not be that important (or could even be irrelevant). I'm not saying this is my prediction, only that it's possible.

Yeah, assuming The Others invade and there's an almighty battle with the dragons, which seems to be the generally accepted belief, who can what sort of state the world will be in at the end of it. As Ursa says, there may not be an Iron Throne to claim. Kings Landing might be nuked. And, to take that further, who can say that there won't be another "Doom of Valyria", except it could be the "Doom of Westeros" and the land itself may not be in the same shape at the end of the story as it was at the start. Anything is possible!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

theres a significant difference between being a Leader and wielding power. Littlefinger and the Queen of Thorns are the perfect examples of those who wield power, but who, themselves, are not leaders. Sansa is shaping up to be exactly that type of player.

I agree with the former. But the latter is what I doubt. Littlefinger, Queen of Thorns, and even Varys, wield power without being leaders.

But they're clever, and we have no evidence to suggest Sansa is, too. Sure, Petyr can train her in some of his cunning ways, but he can't train her to become smarter. He can only train her to use what is inside her to better effect.

All in all, I would be very disappointed with a plot that has her suddenly transforming into a power player.

I'm not sure that the series is defined by the game of thrones,

Although the fact that they name the entire TV series after it (rather than the proper series name) is suspicious...

 

[Ursa major]

One always needs an eye-catching main title. That means not using "A Song of Ice and Fire", which is a good deal more vague (though all-encompassing) than (A) Game of Thrones, which suggests intrigue with the possibility of outright war.

On my paperback of A Game of Thrones, "A Song of Ice and Fire" does not appear on the front cover, but on the back. The same is true of A Clash of Kings and both volumes of A Storms of Swords. It doesn't appear at all on my paperback of A Feast for Crows. It reappears on the back of my (hardback) A Dance with Dragons.

In spite of all this, the series is A Song of Ice and Fire, and we should not forget that.

 

[The Imp]

But they're clever, and we have no evidence to suggest Sansa is, too. Sure, Petyr can train her in some of his cunning ways, but he can't train her to become smarter. He can only train her to use what is inside her to better effect.

Sansa was not trained to be smart, she was trained to be a Lady. She is her mother's daughter, and IMO, Cat's POVs showed that she was as smart as any man when it came to understanding politics. Think nature rather than nurture.

All in all, I would be very disappointed with a plot that has her suddenly transforming into a power player.

Children gow up. Dany was literally a child when she was given to Drogo. Was her transformation so unreasonable?

Although the fact that they name the entire TV series after it (rather than the proper series name) is suspicious...

I think the idea was to de-emphasize the fantasy aspect for new viewers. It's also true that much of the series will focus on the "game of thrones" in that there will be a power struggle in the 7 Kingdoms that will last at least through TWOW, but I think they chose the name to draw in a larger and more diverse audience

 

[Ursa major]

To be fair to Sansa, she worked out Ser Lyn Corbray's rôle in Littlefinger's plan to remain in power in the Vale.