Ned's bones (ADWD spoiler)

[Ursa major]

I know what you meant, juleska, and knew it as soon as I read your words, so (almost by definition) you can't have been unclear at all.

(As you may have noted, my objections to a Mel-like use of Ned's bones was based on an entirely different line of reasoning, i.e. that the bones in Mance's disguise were props, not part of the magic.)

 

[juleska]

Whew! Thought I was losing it for a minute.

Ursa, I understand your point as well...I still think there's more to Mel's comment about the bones than you suggest, but they don't have to have anything to do with Ned's remains. It's just that his bones are "somewhere up there" in that Northern half of Westeros and GRRM has pointed out several times that they are not where they're supposed to be.

 

[3EyedCrowsEye]

Next time I will try to read less quick and understand more, sorry for the confusion

 

[juleska]

Next time I will try to read less quick and understand more, sorry for the confusion

Oh no worries! Just when it happened more than once I started to wonder if I was speaking another language. LOL!

Welcome to the forum 3Eyed.

 

[C Of K]

Naw. you're completely easy to understand. But despite Ursa's humble opinion of his comprehensive skills, I have observed that he is very astute. Just in case someone out there still doesn't get it...

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ROBERT STRONG!

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT USING NED'S BONES IN A GLAMOR!!!!

Ahem. Sorry to speak in the voice of Terry Goodkind.

I wish GRRM had been a tad less cryptic when referring to the capabilities of the bones. I love his writing, mostly, but sometimes writers can gain popularity points by being a little more straightforward. It's writing like his that makes us see shadows and conspiracies at every turn of the page.

 

[juleska]

Well I guess he has to give us something to chew on between books.

 

[Ursa major]

By the way, while looking (still in progress) for Jon's account of the burning of Varamyr's bird and the whereabouts of Mel at the time, I found this in ASoS:

The captive blinked yellow eyes. "Aye." Not until that instant did Jon recognise Rattleshirt. He is a different man without his armour, he thought.

It seems to me that GRRM was laying the groundwork for Mance's disguise in ADwD.

 

[juleska]

It would seem like that quote contradicts the quote from Melisandre that was provided earlier.

The wearer’s essence does not change, only his seeming.

It may be a matter of interpretation, but it sure seems to me like Jon is saying Rattleshirt's essence is different....enough that he can't be recognized unless you look for it. That makes me wonder if something more wasn't going on with Rattleshirt even at that stage. Is there a reason he was specifically chosen to switch places with Mance? Was Rattleshirt a real person at all, or a disguise that many of them wore whenever necessary?

 

[C Of K]

It's possible that Rattleshirt being a different man without his armor, just means he's not as recognizable. Varamyr was unrecognizable to Thistle without his beasts.

Of course Thistle may not have known Varamyr personally as Jon knew Rattleshirt, so it might not be comparable. I don't know.

In high school I knew a boy who had long hair. He'd had long hair for years. Eventually he cut it. Not only did he look different, but he seemed to have lost twenty pounds in 24 hours time. It could be as simple as that. It could be that Jon's perception of what Rattleshirt was supposed to look like was always colored the collection of bones he wore.

 

[Needle]

It's possible that Rattleshirt being a different man without his armor, just means he's not as recognizable. Varamyr was unrecognizable to Thistle without his beasts.

Of course Thistle may not have known Varamyr personally as Jon knew Rattleshirt, so it might not be comparable. I don't know.

In high school I knew a boy who had long hair. He'd had long hair for years. Eventually he cut it. Not only did he look different, but he seemed to have lost twenty pounds in 24 hours time. It could be as simple as that. It could be that Jon's perception of what Rattleshirt was supposed to look like was always colored the collection of bones he wore.

I think you're right here, he just looks so different without them. I live in a ponytail and my own sons have walked right passed me with my hair down, not a clue who I was!