(ADWD Spoilers), Alert, Brienne

[garion77]

I know this is far fetched but could Brienne be AA? Wouldn't AA being reborn as a woman really throw everyone off and GRRM love doing that... It's something about the sword Jaime gave her. Valyrian Steel is usually dark steel... But for some reason the Valyrian sword Jaime gave Brienne was redish steel... It bring you to mind of Light Bringer... The only thing missing is it being tempered with blood... Or was it tempered when Ice was used to cut off Ned Stark's head? Or do Brienne have to run the sword through Jaime's heart to bring it to life? We know she is in love with Jaime. That's how AA brought Light Bringer to life... With the blood of his wife he loved with all his heart.

Of all the characters none is as honorable as Brienne. She was hung by undead Cat so the being born again prophesy is covered. But out of all the Valyrian Steel swords or any Valyrian steel, why is her sword the only one redish steel? And who made Lord Tywins two swords? We know he used Ice to make the swords but who is still around who could forge Valyrian swords?

 

[The Imp]

I know this is far fetched but could Brienne be AA? Wouldn't AA being reborn as a woman really throw everyone off and GRRM love doing that... It's something about the sword Jaime gave her. Valyrian Steel is usually dark steel... But for some reason the Valyrian sword Jaime gave Brienne was redish steel... It bring you to mind of Light Bringer... The only thing missing is it being tempered with blood... Or was it tempered when Ice was used to cut off Ned Stark's head? Or do Brienne have to run the sword through Jaime's heart to bring it to life? We know she is in love with Jaime. That's how AA brought Light Bringer to life... With the blood of his wife he loved with all his heart.

Of all the characters none is as honorable as Brienne. She was hung by undead Cat so the being born again prophesy is covered. But out of all the Valyrian Steel swords or any Valyrian steel, why is her sword the only one redish steel? And who made Lord Tywins two swords? We know he used Ice to make the swords but who is still around who could forge Valyrian swords?

I'm not sure that it's a given that Valyrian steel is always dark, in fact, I seem to recall the opposite. Aslo, you seem to be making the argument that Brienne's sowrd (Oathkeeper) is the sword of AA, but it's not because the sword would still have to be turned into the true sword by killing Jaime.

it's also not a given that Brienne was hung and died. The most unusual thing about her was Jaime though she looked "10 years older' than the last time he had seen her. It's interesting that the details of how Brienne is still around aren't given, but we can't assume that it's a fact that she died.

A separate issue is that of Valyrian steel. It's awlays been my understanding that the hard part was making the steel itself (spells, etc). Once the steel has been made it could be melted down and reforged by a good smith. I think.

It's an interesting diea, but as you said, farfetched.

 

[TPA]

The person forging Oathkeeper from Ice said he used spells in the forging. He also said that he added the red color but the steel would not take the coloring, instead it showed up in the steels ripples giving an unusual red rippled look.

 

[3EyedCrowsEye]

I think she "looked 10 years older" because of what she probably went through, I don't believe that she was killed and brought back (I don't think the brotherhood works that way) as for why it is red, Tywin had the smith (forgot who) try to make the blades all red(Lannister colors) but the steel was just too hard to do that too hence the reddishness to it..also a girl as AA wouldnt be that much of a surprise since Aemon said that Dany was AA and alot of people still think it could be her...I just hope she doesnt kill or have Jamie killed...like you said she is very honorable and might just kill him for Cat..Interesting theory though, got me thinking about many things on that end of the story now

 

[LittleStar]

My take, after DWD, is that Jon Snow is without a doubt, AA... There are several times where Mel specifically tells him, she's asking r'hyllor for a glimpse of AA, stannis she thinks, but all she can see is Jon... At least twice that happens I think... Then there's a Jon dream scene where he is killing everyone's he's ever known using a heat giving sword, which to me was light bringer... Sorry I can't give references, I don't have the book with me.

 

[The Imp]

My take, after DWD, is that Jon Snow is without a doubt, AA... There are several times where Mel specifically tells him, she's asking r'hyllor for a glimpse of AA, stannis she thinks, but all she can see is Jon... At least twice that happens I think... Then there's a Jon dream scene where he is killing everyone's he's ever known using a heat giving sword, which to me was light bringer... Sorry I can't give references, I don't have the book with me.

Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow.

With this little passage GRRM is pretty much confirming that Jon is AA

 

[juleska]

With this little passage GRRM is pretty much confirming that Jon is AA

Totally agree. Thus why he had to "die" at the end, so he could be reborn.

 

[garion77]

You all are right... She keep seeing Jon in the fire and she keep wondering why? Did her God show her Stannis first as AA? Is that the reason she keep looking pass Jon as AA? And where do Jon get Light Bringer from? Do Longclaw become Light Bringer?

 

[juleska]

My memory is failing me....is "Lightbringer" the actual name of AA's sword according to the prophecies? Or is that just what Melisandre started calling Stannis' sword? It sounds like something she would make up.

 

[The Imp]

My memory is failing me....is "Lightbringer" the actual name of AA's sword according to the prophecies? Or is that just what Melisandre started calling Stannis' sword? It sounds like something she would make up.

Lightbringer was the sword that he forged after two failed attempts. He succeeded by driving the sword through his wife's breast.

His wife's name was Nissa Nissa. Oddly, you could turn that into In Assassin. Arya reference?

 

[juleska]

Well in that case.....I'm a little disappointed that Stannis isn't AA. Selsye's breast is the perfect place to forge a magic sword as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Boaz]

garion, welcome! I know the conversation has been mostly about Lightbringer, but I'd like to comment upon your original post.

Of all the characters none is as honorable as Brienne.

I beg to differ. I'd say many are as honorable as Brienne. Mayhaps none are more honorable, but many are her equal. I say this because Brienne, at the moment, is carrying a sword given to her by Jaime and named Oathkeeper while on a quest for Jaime that she swore to Jaime that she'd accomplish. How is it honorable to kill the man who gave her a priceless gift, absolution of regicide, hope in her heart, and a purpose in life?

The problem is that Brienne also swore to serve Catelyn Stark until the moment came for Brienne to kill Stannis.

I think is a great technique used by GRRM. In Riverrun, Jaime told Catelyn that it was impossible to keep oaths. A knight swore oaths to his lord, his lord's lord, his king, the Faith, etc. The oaths neccessarily contradicted each other.

The man with **** for honor told the truth to the dutiful Catelyn and honorable Brienne and now seems destined to die by their treachery.

Now... as to Lightbringer... If Jon is AA, then he does not yet possess Lightbringer. Could Longclaw become Lightbringer? Mayhaps.

If you'll recall, Jon has been living in Donal Noye's quarters... the smithy. And Jon sorely misses Donal Noye's services... he needs a smith. It seems to me that Jon might become his own smith out of necessity.

Now who will be Nissa Nissa? In a sense, Jon already killed his love, Ygritte. He did not actually shoot her, but his machinations brought about her death as surely as if he'd shot her himself. This might be seen as a metaphorical tempering of Jon's soul... especially after knowing Aemon's urging for Jon to "kill the boy."

But I don't think that's right.

Val is the wildling "princess" at the Wall. There may be respect between them, but that's it.

She's not Nissa Nissa.

If you go back and read Jon's ASOS chapters you'll notice that almost every time that Jon thinks of Ygritte's qualities that he subconciously compares her to Arya. I think it's his Targ blood...

Also, you'll notice that ultimately neither the arrest of Eddard, nor Robb's calling of the banners, nor the death of Eddard, nor the deaths of Bran and Rickon, nor the death of Robb, nor his secret mission from Qhorin, nor Ygritte's charms, and not even Stannis' offer of legitimacy, Winterfell, and Val were enough to induce Jon to foreswear his vow to the Night's Watch. Only a death threat against Arya was strong enough to make Jon forsake his vows.

If Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Arya looks like Lyanna....

If Jon is AA, then Arya is NN. Bittersweet.

 

[The Imp]

garion, welcome! I know the conversation has been mostly about Lightbringer, but I'd like to comment upon your original post.
I beg to differ. I'd say many are as honorable as Brienne. Mayhaps none are more honorable, but many are her equal. I say this because Brienne, at the moment, is carrying a sword given to her by Jaime and named Oathkeeper while on a quest for Jaime that she swore to Jaime that she'd accomplish. How is it honorable to kill the man who gave her a priceless gift, absolution of regicide, hope in her heart, and a purpose in life?

The problem is that Brienne also swore to serve Catelyn Stark until the moment came for Brienne to kill Stannis.

I think is a great technique used by GRRM. In Riverrun, Jaime told Catelyn that it was impossible to keep oaths. A knight swore oaths to his lord, his lord's lord, his king, the Faith, etc. The oaths neccessarily contradicted each other.

The man with **** for honor told the truth to the dutiful Catelyn and honorable Brienne and now seems destined to die by their treachery.

Now... as to Lightbringer... If Jon is AA, then he does not yet possess Lightbringer. Could Longclaw become Lightbringer? Mayhaps.

If you'll recall, Jon has been living in Donal Noye's quarters... the smithy. And Jon sorely misses Donal Noye's services... he needs a smith. It seems to me that Jon might become his own smith out of necessity.

Now who will be Nissa Nissa? In a sense, Jon already killed his love, Ygritte. He did not actually shoot her, but his machinations brought about her death as surely as if he'd shot her himself. This might be seen as a metaphorical tempering of Jon's soul... especially after knowing Aemon's urging for Jon to "kill the boy."

But I don't think that's right.

Val is the wildling "princess" at the Wall. There may be respect between them, but that's it.

She's not Nissa Nissa.

If you go back and read Jon's ASOS chapters you'll notice that almost every time that Jon thinks of Ygritte's qualities that he subconciously compares her to Arya. I think it's his Targ blood...

Also, you'll notice that ultimately neither the arrest of Eddard, nor Robb's calling of the banners, nor the death of Eddard, nor the deaths of Bran and Rickon, nor the death of Robb, nor his secret mission from Qhorin, nor Ygritte's charms, and not even Stannis' offer of legitimacy, Winterfell, and Val were enough to induce Jon to foreswear his vow to the Night's Watch. Only a death threat against Arya was strong enough to make Jon forsake his vows.

If Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Arya looks like Lyanna....

If Jon is AA, then Arya is NN. Bittersweet.

As I said in another post, the letters in Nissa Nissa spell in assassin. Arya is training to be a FM.

 

[garion77]

garion, welcome! I know the conversation has been mostly about Lightbringer, but I'd like to comment upon your original post.
I beg to differ. I'd say many are as honorable as Brienne. Mayhaps none are more honorable, but many are her equal. I say this because Brienne, at the moment, is carrying a sword given to her by Jaime and named Oathkeeper while on a quest for Jaime that she swore to Jaime that she'd accomplish. How is it honorable to kill the man who gave her a priceless gift, absolution of regicide, hope in her heart, and a purpose in life?

The problem is that Brienne also swore to serve Catelyn Stark until the moment came for Brienne to kill Stannis.

I think is a great technique used by GRRM. In Riverrun, Jaime told Catelyn that it was impossible to keep oaths. A knight swore oaths to his lord, his lord's lord, his king, the Faith, etc. The oaths neccessarily contradicted each other.

The man with **** for honor told the truth to the dutiful Catelyn and honorable Brienne and now seems destined to die by their treachery.

Now... as to Lightbringer... If Jon is AA, then he does not yet possess Lightbringer. Could Longclaw become Lightbringer? Mayhaps.

If you'll recall, Jon has been living in Donal Noye's quarters... the smithy. And Jon sorely misses Donal Noye's services... he needs a smith. It seems to me that Jon might become his own smith out of necessity.

Now who will be Nissa Nissa? In a sense, Jon already killed his love, Ygritte. He did not actually shoot her, but his machinations brought about her death as surely as if he'd shot her himself. This might be seen as a metaphorical tempering of Jon's soul... especially after knowing Aemon's urging for Jon to "kill the boy."

But I don't think that's right.

Val is the wildling "princess" at the Wall. There may be respect between them, but that's it.

She's not Nissa Nissa.

If you go back and read Jon's ASOS chapters you'll notice that almost every time that Jon thinks of Ygritte's qualities that he subconciously compares her to Arya. I think it's his Targ blood...

Also, you'll notice that ultimately neither the arrest of Eddard, nor Robb's calling of the banners, nor the death of Eddard, nor the deaths of Bran and Rickon, nor the death of Robb, nor his secret mission from Qhorin, nor Ygritte's charms, and not even Stannis' offer of legitimacy, Winterfell, and Val were enough to induce Jon to foreswear his vow to the Night's Watch. Only a death threat against Arya was strong enough to make Jon forsake his vows.

If Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Arya looks like Lyanna....

If Jon is AA, then Arya is NN. Bittersweet.

This make a lot of sense. Arya have to be or do something... I just don't see her role in the big picture yet. She can't be training to be a FM just to be a FM... You could have got any character for that... You could have got Hot Pie for that...lol I still think Arya will be the one to kill Cersia and even Toman... I think she will keep her prayer vows on those who still live... It would be funny if Arya is the one who kill undead Gregor (Sir Strong) She will have the magic after her training to kill him... She seem like the only one who can sneak in also and take Qyburn out while she at it...

 

[Eulalia]

Gross alert, and spoiler alert. I suppose this belongs in another thread, but I guess Arya could be assigned(as FM) to take out Tommen, and, er, use his face to get closer to Cersei to add her to the list, (as Arya). Two for one?

Can't see Brienne as high status enough to be AA or NN, although she may be Dunk's heir.

 

[3EyedCrowsEye]

so when winter comes, how much of Essos does it affect? Cuz I know during the long night it seemed to affect them but I have never heard of snow there, especially in the shadowlands