Alternate Worlds

[RVM45]

I have two alternate World stories on the back-burner right now.

It occurs to me though--Almost evert "Alternate" story that I ever read, confined knowledge of the Alternate World, Universe, Reality....Whatever, to a rather limited number of folks.

Put your thinking hat on for a moment, if you would.....

What happens a few years after all the Nobel Prizes are awarded, and the inventors are finally old news on the Talk-Show Circuit.....

When you can buy a ticket for $35 or $40, step through a portal, and be in an Alternate Earth.....

What kinda effects does this have on culture at large?

{Right now, I'm thinking of a Single Alternate World--Identical to ours until the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962--almost 50 years ago--where there was a limited Nuclear Exchange--Well, not that limited--but an atomic War.....

I'm going with the idea that the Alternate World has pretty much recovered from most drawbacks--they have civilization, are not barbaric--have no two-headed mutants--the political boundaries haven't changed drastically.....

But that they only have about 20-25% the population that we do....}

.....RVM45

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Well, actually that would have quite an impact on culture. You would have all sorts of low types attempting to get through, you would have I think a lot of the upper crust trying to get through, the gap between the classes would be so glaringly obvious, and mutants aside, it would quite possibly be like Fallout.


And of course, with any nuclear exchange-indeed, with any major drop in the world population-you would lose the influences that art and music would provide. Frivolities such as them would be sacrificed in exchange for cold hard survival. Even though you mentioned "limited" nuclear exchange, I would assume the U.S. would strike Russia and vice versa, so many major cities in both countries would be, essentially, ruined, and a good place to look for what would occur due to heavy nuclear damage is Chernobyl. The world economy would collapse, unless Europe was able to somehow salvage it (assuming they escaped blasts). And just think about future generations in the radiation-torn world. Nuclear winter and radiation would have such far-reaching effects that they would not be salvageable.

 

[Abernovo]

So, you can travel between worlds simply for the cost of a night out?

Presuming, as Karn says, that some major cities are devastated (terrible concept), it's likely that there could be a massive surge against nuclear weapons. Even a minor exchange would be disastrous.

$40 in our world. What would the price be in the Alternative World? I assume there would be a vastly different economy - smaller consumer base, contaminated resources, changes in supply and demand, etc

Refugees? Possibility of hiding from authorities, fake identities? Profiteers from our world trying to make a fast buck?

I think you've hit on a very interesting concept for a story here.

 

[RVM45]

From 1970 to 2010, the population of America went from about 200 million; to about 300 Million.

Strangely, although my own hometown has shrunk 15-20%; I feel roughly about a third more crowded than I did as a boy in 1970.....

Urban Sprawl, where there are planned communities just on the edges of town--where there used to be all sorts of Flatland Hillbillies living on small farms, often in Asphalt Shingle Sided Houses.

And the determined development of a good many "In-Town" Woodlots and/or "Weed-Lots".

Is it too much to expect,that with even a mild Atomic War in 1962, that the population might have shrank from somewhat less than 200 Million in 1962, to 100 Million in 2011?

Maybe--for my Plot purposes, we can get it down to around 80 Million--and we'll assume most Countries Populations have decreased by similar amounts.


I really don't want to focus on the Nuclear War so much; as having a much more Rural and less populated America come into intimate contact with our America.

I had an extended rationale why the effects of the War were so much milder than they could have been.....

But decided that I needed to save something for my story.

.....RVM45

 

[TheTomG]

Definitely interesting! One instant thought I have - think how slowed their development would be, which means think of how much gasoline they are NOT using, all those resources not yet mined and tapped....

Better yet, ** you know where they are ** You don't need to go and look for the oil fields, we already mapped them here! And those environmentally sensitive areas, already decimated so who cares! And clearly we should be custodians of their world, they have proven themselves less capable at looking after their planet so naturally they should cede that role to us...

Fascinating idea!

 

[Flugel Meister]

Start looking at it from the ground up. What would the population do? How would they feel? How would you feel if you were in the same situation?

But there are other ares to consider:

What about food and water? What about schooling and money?

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Schooling would be too generous a luxury, Flugel, as would cold hard money. Survival situations like what is proposed is based pretty much of the barter system and hard survival labor. Children would be more likely out gathering edible fruits and herbs than they would behind a book.


As for money, well as I said, the barter system would probably be in place, but more than that, you could really use anything to replace the old currency system. And this is in both worlds as neither would have the population in total to justify complicated economics. You could use bottle caps, colored stones, anything as a general currency if that's how you really wanted to do things. But it's more likely that it would be a situation of "Fifteen cases of aspirin for five cases of ammunition" or whatever.

 

[Quokka]

But isn't that assuming that civilisation/nations collapse. The majority of the population difference would come from the alternate world's population not expanding at the same rate as this one, if at all and in times of crisis people will often cling to the familiar. If the population stayed above a critical point, governments could find themselves more secure rather than less particuarly if they can avoid responsibility for the damage... and maybe grab a good stake in the modern media?

 

[RVM45]

Did anyone ever read the Comic Strips "Moon Mullins" or "Gasoline Ally"?

When I was a boy (I'm 54), there was a lot more of that type of atmosphere to the World--at least around here.

I think that I used the term "Flatland Hillbillies" in an Earlier post. You know that was a great description of some of my Aunts and Uncles. "River Bottom Hillbillies" might have been more accurate with some.

You saw plenty of Garages that had obviously been Horse Stables a couple generations earlier. There were still about a half-dozen "Rag-Pickers" who'd come through our somewhat more prosperous, and modern neighborhood, on the way from their little "Ghetto" to the Paper factory. The paper factory had an insatiable appetite for old linen rags.

They'd push home-made carts--two wheelers, with old Wagon wheels on the front. They'd haul trash for a small fee. Sometimes they'd want to sell you black berries or walnuts that they'd gathered in the woods.

Neighborhood Grocery stores, where everyone knew you, your parents, and your grandparents were common.

This left-over Window dressing was rapidly vanishing from the land--though as a boy, I was too young to notice.

Sometime between my earliest memories in perhaps 1960 or so, till the time that I graduated High School in 1975, almost all the quaint folk, quaint houses, quaint ways--folks who looked like they'd stepped off a '30s Comic Strip, had pretty much vanished.

This is the Alternate World that I want to show.

A limited Atomic War is only a means to preserve that type of place.

What I'm thinking about--to contain some of the devastation.....

In this particular World, at this particular time, The Soviets came to the conclusion that the only even half-way decent delivery system they had, was mid-range missiles fired from Submarines.

This was almost certainly not true in our World, in the 1960's; and there is no valid reason to think the Soviets would prove so inept--

But in our Alternate World, that's just how the chips fell.

The Soviets did a fair job of attacking cities of 200 000 and up, if they were on the East or West Coast, and within about 150 Miles of the coast.....

Though they did miss a few, and wasted Beaucoup missiles in some cases, bombing strategically unimportant small towns, and then pounding the Rubble.

Atlanta, Miami. Portland Oregon, and the whole State of Hawaii was spared completely.

The Soviets managed to hit both Chicago and Detroit with a couple Nukes each, only marginally more powerful than the Nagasaki Bomb--but they were the only heartland cities that were struck.

Europe--particularly England--now glows in the dark (Although Scandinavia was spared.)

The Soviets were obsessed with the idea that with both Super Powers brought to their knees, That some of the Third World Countries might move into the Power vacuum.....

There are many cities bombed in Third World Countries, specifically to give them enough to worry about for the next 30-40 years, without trying to become a World Power.

This wasn't always done terribly Rationally. Jamaica and Haiti were heavily bombed--for no good strategic reason.

Mexico actually lost more cities and industrial capacities than the US.

(Why? In the context of the story--only some dead--and quite possibly mad Soviet Strategist had any idea--if he even knew.

In the Context of my Plotting, a glow-in-the-dark Mexico might prove an interesting Venue.....)

I'm not positive that the War and Aftermath that I describe, would succeed in getting the World Population down to about 800 million, or so, and the US to 80 Million.

Lets say that the Soviets turned out to be Prodigies at breeding up nasty Influenza Viruses.....

Oh, one other thing--with the peculiar pattern of Damage, and lots of luck, not only did the US get off a very successful Counterstrike, but they still had enough online Missiles left for a bang-up Second Strike; to thoroughly Neuter any Nation's Military that is incautious enough to pose a threat whether Nuclear, or Non-Nuclear.

One almost has to go to the Zoo to see a Russian, and outside of Boarder Skirmishes--there has been peace for fifty years.

And Alternate Americans aren't living in squalor--Their necessity has spurred all types of innovations. Nor are they without Government.....

While many Politicians died in the War, the traditional form of US Government has been passed down without interruption.

.....RVM45

 

[Abernovo]

One almost has to go to the Zoo to see a Russian

I'm sure this is just an unfortunate choice of words.

I am still convinced that you have a great idea for a story, but I hope you'll not take it amiss if I point out a couple of potential stumbling blocks. Possibly they are ones you've already identified, in which case I apologise.

You posit a scenario of a 'limited' nuclear war in your Alternate World, but the result actually wipes out two thirds of the world's population. That's armageddon. At the same time, you leave the US population at 10% of total world population. In the 50s, as now, it was around 5%. This means that your US population suffered less than other countries, despite your explanation that the major population zones of east and west coast were hammered, leaving the rural mid-West and mountains. It doesn't track.

Your secondary idea of disease, probably works better for such population devastation, in that disease can show patterns of infection leaving some communities almost untouched whilst wiping others from the map. Your problem would still be how to explain such huge losses. Even the 1918 flu pandemic killed only 5% of the world's population as an upper estimate.

Finally, I'm not sure it's too plausible to have the Soviets as the only bad guys. We've all had our share of both nut jobs and diplomats. Unfortunately, looking at the world, we still have too many nutters. Sigh.

Hope this helps. If not, feel free to ignore and I hope I haven't offended.

 

[RVM45]

Yeah, I see what you're saying....

The War was a neat 50 years ago.

It really doesn't matter who the fought back then--or how the War went.....

Or lotsa stuff.

Just take it that for whatever reason, since the War, World Population has shrank considerably--and so has the US Population--though not necessarily in exact proportion.

The US has been left the sole superpower left standing. They choose mainly to let the Rest of the World go its own way, caught in a sort of happy isolationists revery.

But the Alternate US is not weak, nor primitive, nor incapable of subtlety--as the Regular US Government finds at some point.

.....RVM45

 

[hopewrites]

one thing that might help your population "decline" i found in my nuclear studies for my story that exposure to radiation decreases fertility, and increases infant and fetal mortality.
you population difference then could very easily stem from the reverse of the baby boom we had in this reality.
less people by default breed up less people. with limited radioactive exposure it wouldnt be too outside to expect a decrease in the fertility of two generations. leaving your story to take place with the alt worlds baby boom decades after the one experienced here.

just a thought