32:13 The Wedding of River Song (Spoilers)

[Perpetual Man]

Well it all comes to an end tomorrow night:

It's the big one. How big? Well, it's the epic episode that brings the current series to a spectacular climax, with the Doctor aware that only his death can keep the universe safe. And so we return to Lake Silencio as the Time Lord prepares for a date with destiny...

Old friends like River, Amy and Rory return along with Churchill, Charles Dickens and Dorium Maldovar. But enemies from the Doctor's past also feature. There's Dalek action and the Silence and Kovarian are back with a vengeance!

Well this is it, where we see whether the last two years have been worth it or not...

As much as possible has been quiet, with the episode tied up tighter than a three year old trying to say Raxicoricalfalipatorius, but speculation runs rife..

The following link is to SFX magazines preview of the episode. They claim it is spoiler free, and it seems to be but it's anyone's choice whether they want to read it or not.


Spoiler Free Preview

 

[Foxbat]

I have to admit to being pleasantly surprised. When Riversong started going on about her beacon and all the voices in the sky, I groaned and thought 'not the tinkerbell effect again!'

At least mister Moffat managed to steer clear of that and give us (what I thought was) an ending that left a wry grin on the face.

Only problem is....will the next series be something of a reboot (considering the doc says he needs to get back into the shadows)?

 

[Purdy Bear]

I loved it, especially when the nasty silence women got done in. WTG River she got her man!

I cant wait for the Christmas episode.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Mixed feelings. I didn't really get the killing/not killing moment and why that would meld all of time together.

On the plus side, Amy Pond in a suit was rather lovely, plus I loved the weird imagery (steam engine going into the pyramid was nice).

 

[PTeppic]

Some choice quotes
"How bad are my injuries?" - catching out the Doctor
"Pond, Amelia Pond" - for the kids?
"texting and scones" - the Doctor's idea of a date
"All that flirting - do I have to watch this?"
"We got married, had a kid and that's her" - Amy summing up an entire alternate reality for Rory
"I'm his mother-in-law!" - Amy's horrified realisation
"Doctor Who?" - widely guessed, directly or indirectly (e.g. "what is the Doctor's name?")

Loving:
the time-at-once future, as an idea and in practice, especially the steam trains and balloon-cars
the "live chess"
the toy-TARDIS double-take, having not noticed the drawings etc.
that the wedding technically only took place in a now-extinct alternate reality
Amy and River syncing diaries

Not so much
"A woman" - in response to a beautifully worded build up to what was wrong, seemed weak

Thoughts:
Nice mention of Brigadier L. Stewart - similar nod to that give to Don. S. Davis' character, after he died, in the Stargate canon
Most had worked out the eye-patches were anti-Silence, but the eye-drive was a nice touch
That he told her his name (to match up with "Silence in the Library") then revealing he didn't
Which means we still don't know when he tells her... since that's now revealed as THE question
Clever twist: no longer who killed the Doctor (or indeed, did he die) but an entirely different plot
Given the entire alternate reality was lost, what happened to the Silence and Kovarian
Also, many assumed the dead Doctor was a 'ganger - nice mis-direction from the first half of the season
We did have some suggestions that the big issue at the Lake would be persuading River (once it was revealed she was in the suit) that she did have to kill him (maybe not the context though!)

 

[PTeppic]

Mixed feelings. I didn't really get the killing/not killing moment and why that would meld all of time together.

As the Doctor has mentioned in previous episodes, there are lots of fluid points of time and some very fixed points in time. Those events "must" happen. It would seem that if they don't, time unravels.

Which doesn't actually cover what happens when the fixed point is "believed" to have happened but in fact has only partially happened.... (now my head hurts)

 

[Dave]

I think I now need PTeppic to explain all the nuances to me. Still I thought it was a fitting finale to this series arc, and much better than some of the last few episodes. I like your list of 'choice quotes' and 'loving' scenes.

Only problem is....will the next series be something of a reboot (considering the doc says he needs to get back into the shadows)?

If that was a given, which anything said in this rarely is, I wouldn't mind so much. A few more low key episodes would be good. Everything recently is so overblown, so over the top.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Loved all the steam punk touches in tonight's Doctor Who especially the steam train entering the pyramid, not too sure of all the top and tailing of the story line. Least River did not annoy me as much as usual.

 

[williamjm]

Given the entire alternate reality was lost, what happened to the Silence and Kovarian

Kovarian should still be around to cause trouble since she only died in the now-destroyed reality. However, she should believe (at least for now) that her plan worked and the Doctor was really killed.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Love it! Can't wait to watch again in a couple of hours and see what I missed the first time! I did guess the Tessa-whatsis thing when he was talking to them and they asked if there was anything else they could do.

I'm wondering if, in light of the whole time-going-crazy due to two opposite things happening simultaneously (death and not-death), is it all ok now because the wrong thing of the two was not him not-dying, but was in fact him dying? So they resolved it with him not-dying and it fixed everything?

I did have a thought unrelated to this episode today, and I missed the start of the relevant one by about ten minutes to check it out, so I'll ask here. I don't see how it possibly could be, but of course things are always timey-wimey -- is the car that Mels stole and drove into the cornfield the same car that the Doctor gave Rory and Amy when he dropped them off? I can't remember the cornfield car, except it was red, and I missed seeing it during the marathon reruns today.

 

[Foxbat]

Been thnking more on this and I'm a little confused. The Doc was a tessalector (spelling?) so how could he and River actually touch and restore the scene to Silencio? Does the machine match him so closely?

A few more low key episodes would be good. Everything recently is so overblown, so over the top.

I agree. A bit bombastic of late.

 

[PTeppic]

Been thnking more on this and I'm a little confused. The Doc was a tessalector (spelling?) so how could he and River actually touch and restore the scene to Silencio? Does the machine match him so closely?

The fixed point must be the death of the Tesselecta? What Kovarian and the Silence believes happened (in this case) is not part of the fixed point (since presumably at some point they'll realise they were tricked).

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Good question, one which hadn't occurred to me -- the other that goes with it is why the regeneration that got stopped short by the next set of shots? I guess if the tessalector (?) could emulate a working motorcycle, it could emulate regeneration as well, which is my best guess.

I missed the references the first time to "the fall of the 11th" which comes on the plains of whatever that was, when the question is asked and the silence must fall. Hope they hold off on that for a few seasons -- I'm not ready to lose Matt Smith yet!

Also, my husband asked, why didn't the people just rip their own eye-drives off, instead of having to have somebody else do it for them? Ha! And we wondered why they didn't start sooner, upon seeing that somebody else's was frying them. Silly people.

Speaking of which, one of my favorite bits was when Amy told the old bat that the Doctor wasn't there, and that River didn't get it all from her. "You took my baby, and you hurt her...." Go Amy!

 

[Foxbat]

The fixed point must be the death of the Tesselecta? What Kovarian and the Silence believes happened (in this case) is not part of the fixed point (since presumably at some point they'll realise they were tricked).

I understand what you mean but the 'doctor' said to River that they were two poles of the same event (or something along those lines) and had to touch to restore things....but they never actually touched...it was River and the Tessa that touched.

 

[HoopyFrood]

For the past week I've had the Radio Times in direct sight on a shelf pretty much ever day for hours on end -- where all the main characters are wearing eye patches -- so I'd already guessed a while ago that they were to let people remember the Silence.

Also, when the Tesselator or whatever said "Is there anything else we can do?" I shouted at the tv "Become the doctor and die on a lake side!"

Now I've got that smugness out of the way...

Can't really add to the previous comments. Thoroughly enjoyed it, one of the better finales, I feel. Some great lines, especially from Amy. "We should get a drink...and married." And her face when she realised she was the Doctor's mother-in-law!

I feel like I need to go back through the entire series now and spot all the little things.

 

[purple_kathryn]

Ahh the bit at the end was just brilliant with the repeating "Doctor Who?"

Even if I did want to say 42

 

[steve12553]

The details that were discussed here (that were obviously in the show) and the discussion of the logic involved just goes to show the unbelievable attraction generated by not only this incarnation of Doctor Who by also the original version. There was always a lot of leaps of logic and fantasy elements that provided ways of making the plot get where it needed to and we always accepted them. The dedicated fans have always argued the nuances despite the fact that when the going gets tough, the writers make up another law of the Physical (Whovian) Universe. Nothing else like it in this reality. It definitley was a fun episode.

 

[Tillane]

Re: 32:13 The Wedding of River Song (Spoliers)

Still trying to make my mind up on this one. I agree with what most have said about it being good fun and about there being some good dialogue, but I turned off last night feeling vaguely unsatisfied. Not dissatisfied, as such: I didn't dislike the episode, but it just didn't have any real impact on me.

I liked a lot of the things that have already been mentioned by others - the chess match, the stuff between Amy and River (and Amy and Rory), the Doctor's rather lame attempt at matchmaking. Also like the line by the Silent to Rory "who dies and dies again. Die one last time."; nice little bit of self-parody by Moffat, there. I liked the fact that the Doc that was shot was a Teselecta and not a Flesh clone, though like others I did think it was telegraphed earlier in the episode.

However, there were a bunch of little things I wasn't keen on. I still don't like Ian McNiece as Churchill. I didn't like any of the scenes between the Doctor and River. I really didn't like the scene on Lake Silencio, with River saying she can't stop the suit killing him and then promptly doing so anyway. Like TDZ, I wasn't sure about the Teselecta emulating a regeneration - not saying it isn't possible, just that we had no previous evidence to suggest it could do so.

Most of all, however, I just didn't feel at any point that there was any real sense of threat throughout the episode. I mean, all of time is supposedly dying, we've got the Silence/Silents/Whatever killing extras right, left and centre, we've got the Doctor (apparently) desperate to put things right by having River kill him...and yet at no point was I on the edge of my seat, at no point did I think "uh-oh, this isn't going to end well" or even "ooh, didn't see that coming". It just felt kind of...flat. Fun, but just fun, and with all the build-up I was expecting rather more from an end-of-series finale.

Which brings me to my final point, which is that we now seem to be seeing Moffat's writing colours nailed firmly to the mast. He's a tease, stringing along his audience, giving some of the answers but never all of them, and never quite bringing things to a conclusion. We've clearly been given the very bare bones of another potential season arc in the whole "oldest question" thing, but although I expect we'll get some more info and possibly even a finale based around that in the next series, I suspect we'll also discover, right at the end, that there's more to it. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it does have a limited shelf-life. At some point, if Moffat keeps pulling the same trick, it'll get annoying (I'm sure it already has for some) and people will switch off. It's Lost syndrome: at some point, you have to give the audience the pay-off - and the longer you put it off, the better it's going to have to be...

 

[thaddeus6th]

Tillane, that's broadly how I feel (but rather better articulated).

 

[Lenny]

Re: 32:13 The Wedding of River Song (Spoliers)

I also agree with Till about the whole episode - unlike previous finales, and even arc episodes in the first half of the series, there was absolutely no impact. Sure, there were nice ideas thrown in, but they were pure background. Had Moffat split the finale into two and replaced one of the filler episodes, however good they might have been, I feel that it would have been so much better - for one, they'd have had more than enough time to go through all of the preparation for the episode and touch more upon the strange time problems, rather than spending the first half hour jumping from scene to scene before giving us a lacklustre conclusion.

I jokingly turned to a friend I was watching it with and said: "The Doctor won't die! He'll be tesselected!". I then swore at the television, rather loudly in the packed bar, when it came to pass...

That same friend, at the end, turned to me and said it was turning into Lost.

I think the break hurt rather than helped, particularly after so much dramatic build-up in the mid-series finale.