Really short excerpt; 300 words

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jo Zebedee

Aliens vs Belfast.
Supporter
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
19,507
Location
blah - flags. So many flags.
I've moved on from the first bit of the story to the second part which includes more human interaction :eek: and before I do a pile of work and then find out it's rubbish I thought I'd stick up a tiny excerpt and see how well the dialogue flows/how it's reading.

Background: Kare has always exceeded at everything using mind powers, the group he's joined have stopped him using the powers during his training period to give a level playing field, and he's really struggled with basic training; this scene is designed to tell how badly he's done as I haven't shown any of the training itself, and keep interest, at least a little. Stitt was the trainer, Silom's his best mate.



Kare watched Silom come back from the bar and set two drinks on the table.

“How bad is it?” he asked. His eyes glanced to the group of squaddies gathered around Stitt in the corner. They listened to her avidly and then threw back their heads in laughter.

“Honestly?”

“Honestly.”

“She says you’re the worst recruit she’s ever trained and that she deserves a gallantry medal for getting you through. She also says she’s never seen anyone throw up as much after the obstacle course.”

Kare glanced over at her, and caught her eyes, but he didn’t throw her the dirty look he’d planned; hate her he might, she still outranked him. Instead he put his arms on the table and thumped his head down onto them.

“I’ll never live it down, will I?” he asked, his voice muffled.

Silom shook his head. “No, the best you can do is learn to take it with good grace. Still, at least you’ve made it. Three months, though, Kare; they reckon it’s a record.”

Kare grinned at him, and lifted his head up. “You’re probably right; I deserved it. It’s certainly been a lesson in how much I rely on my psyche. They’re not giving me much leeway here, are they?”

Silom shook his head. “Well, they’re not treating you any differently than the rest of us, if that’s what you mean. But they’re not treating you any worse, either, so knock off the self pity.” He downed his pint and pointed to Kare’s. “Are you drinking that?”

Kare shook his head. “I’ve had enough.”

“You’ve had two.”

“That’s enough.”

“Lightweight.”

Kare shrugged his shoulders. “Maybe. So, we go tomorrow? What’s it like, the fieldwork?”

“It’s good, you’ll like it,” said Silom as there was more laughter from Stitt’s table.

“It can’t be any worse than this,” said Kare, and he noticed Silom didn’t correct him.
 
Really good. The flow of the conversation never stalled, and you picked just the right actions to describe. The dialogue is realistic and natural. An enjoyable read.
 
Pretty good, Springs. Just one little bit that made me stop:

Kare grinned at him, and lifted his head up. “You’re probably right; I deserved it. It’s certainly been a lesson in how much I rely on my psyche. They’re not giving me much leeway here, are they?”

Now if I've got this right Kare's head is resting on his hands. If so then perhaps this could be reordered: Kare lifted his head (up is redundant) and grinned at him (or perhaps name Silom to avoid any confusion).

If I am missing something feel free to ignore my comments. Nicely done, good luck. T
 
Kare watched Silom come back from the bar and set two drinks on the table.

Not clear who is setting the drinks on the table. I assume Silom. "Set" is also a little archaic in this context. It's not Downton Abbey!

They listened to her avidly and then threw back their heads in laughter.

This is ongoing action, so unless he watches them for a while before they start laughing (which I don't think is what you mean) you'd be better with "they were listening to her avidly...."


Kare glanced over at her,

"..glanced over at Stitt" would work better. Too many shes and hers otherwise.


and caught her eyes, but he didn’t throw her the dirty look he’d planned

lose "he" and change "throw" - you used throw in the preceding sentence.


; hate her he might,

We've gone all Chaucerian. "Although he hated her" fits your chosen narrative voice better.


“I’ll never live it down, will I?” he asked, his voice muffled.

He's not really asking, is he? He's just having a bit of a "woe is me" moment. And lose the muffled bit - you've already told us he has his head on his arms, so it's a given.


Full stop, not comma.

Silom shook his head. “Well, they’re not treating you any differently than the rest of us, if that’s what you mean. But they’re not treating you any worse, either, so knock off the self pity.” He downed his pint and pointed to Kare’s. “Are you drinking that?”

Break this up. Dialogue ideally on different lines from the descriptive bits.

Kare shook his head. “I’ve had enough.”

Two head shakes in quick succession.


“It’s good, you’ll like it,” said Silom as there was more laughter from Stitt’s table.

Silom's comment is not directly related to the laughter, so make the laughter a different sentence.


“It can’t be any worse than this,” said Kare, and

Replace ",and" with a full stop. Punchier.

he noticed Silom didn’t correct him.

Minor point, but "Silom didn't correct him" might be sharper.

Regards,

Peter
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone, at least I seem to be going in the right direction. Yes, Telford you're absolutely right, the actions are the wrong way round ty. Peter, many thanks for your detail, it is very useful and illuminating. One question from it, if a rhetorical question is asked should this be punctuated as a question or a statement?
 
One question from it, if a rhetorical question is asked should this be punctuated as a question or a statement?

I raised this a while back. The answer from several of the great and learned was "as a question", even if it doesn't sound like a question in speech (ie no upwards inflection). You might then need to make it clear somehow that it is a rhetorical question, if it isn't obvious.

(Personally, I still itch to leave off the question mark.)
 
Somehow I wasn't convinced. Presumably, since he's passed out this is meant to be the big party thrown for all those new cadets that have moved to the next round. I didn't get that sense of abandonment (whether it is or isn't the passing out party). My understanding is that even on a normal night out, the millitary can get a bit excessive. This seems a bit too civilised.

Anyway - here we go.

Usuall system

R Remove
G Possible suggestions
B Comments


I've moved on from the first bit of the story to the second part which includes more human interaction :eek: and before I do a pile of work and then find out it's rubbish I thought I'd stick up a tiny excerpt and see how well the dialogue flows/how it's reading.

Background: Kare has always exceeded at everything using mind powers, the group he's joined have stopped him using the powers during his training period to give a level playing field, and he's really struggled with basic training; this scene is designed to tell how badly he's done as I haven't shown any of the training itself, and keep interest, at least a little. Stitt was the trainer, Silom's his best mate.



Kare watched Silom come back from the bar and set two the drinks on the table.

“How bad is it?” he asked. His eyes glanced to the group of squaddies gathered around Stitt in the corner. They listened to her avidly and then threw back their heads in laughter. (that would take longer than a glance - It would be better if the corner was mentioned in passing rather than derectly observed. He doesn't need to glance to know there's a bunch of p**s heads being stupid in the corner)


“Honestly?”


“Honestly.”


“She says you’re the worst recruit she’s ever trained and that she deserves a gallantry medal for getting you through. She also says she’s never seen anyone throw up as much after the obstacle course.” (Now getting really picky here - This suggests that Silom's has only just had a chat to the trainer - else this conversation would have taken place over the first pint mentioned later on. But we have no description of this which seems odd as its a lengthy exchange. Surely Kare would have seen this and would be going over it in his head a bit, or at least describing it to the reader)


Kare glanced over at her, and caught her eyes, but he didn’t throw her the dirty look he’d planned; hate her he might, she still outranked him. Instead he put his arms on the table and thumped his head down onto them. (Would he given he's in the same room? -just to get more ridicule)
“I’ll never live it down, will I?” he asked, his voice muffled. (- It's a bar ful of soldiers muffled voices wouldn't be heard)

Silom shook his head. “No, the best you can do is learn to take it with good grace. Still, at least you’ve made it. Three months, though, Kare; they reckon it’s a record.” ( you need to expand this - is three months too long or too short. In any case three months training for any job isn't 'remarkable', especially a soldiers)

Kare grinned at him, and lifted his head up. “You’re probably right; I deserved it. It’s certainly been a lesson in how much I rely on my psyche. They’re not giving me much leeway here, are they?” (well yes they are. If three months is a record then they have given him quite a lot either way)


Silom shook his head. “Well, they’re not treating you any differently than the rest of us, if that’s what you mean. But they’re not treating you any worse, either, so knock off the self pity.” He downed his pint and pointed to Kare’s. “Are you drinking that?”


Kare shook his head. “I’ve had enough.”


“You’ve had two.”


“That’s enough.”


“Lightweight.”


Kare shrugged his shoulders. “Maybe. So, we go tomorrow? What’s it like, the fieldwork?”


“It’s good, you’ll like it,” said Silom as there was more laughter from Stitt’s table.


“It can’t be any worse than this,” said Kare, and he noticed Silom didn’t correct him. (that didn't work - there was nothing to correct )

As I said, to me it's a bit too polite and flat. There's not enough background bar action. The elbow in the back, the are you looking at me stuff, the big fight in the room next door, the MPs walking in to calm it down. The over stated insult from someone at at the trainers table and the hand on the arm to stop Kare getting into trouble etc.

Having said that the hint over the underlying story seem quite good and I would be interested in seeing more.

Hope I helped

TEiN
 
Peter, many thanks for your detail, it is very useful and illuminating. One question from it, if a rhetorical question is asked should this be punctuated as a question or a statement?

A rhetorical question is still a question, so it should have a question mark. The purpose of punctuation is to give written text the same depth and nuance as the spoken word. Thi is why so many punctuation marks reflect the various pauses which we use when speaking.

The question mark is a good example of this. All it really does in written text is mark what would be the upward lilt which a speaker unconsciously applies at the end of a spoken sentence when they have asked a question:-

"Are you coming out to the Lamb and Flag tonight?"


That same upward lilt would be employed in speech when asking a rhetorical question:-

"Was it not Julius Caesar who remarked "alea jacta est"?"


A phenomenon which (I think) started in Australia and which has spread over here is the tendency to use the same lilt even when no question is being asked. So, a phrase such as:-

"We're so off to see Lady Gaga at the 02 tonight. It's going to be awesome. We're, like, getting a taxi and stuff."


Would sound like:-

"We're so off to see Lady Gaga at the 02 tonight? It's going to be awesome. We're, like, getting a taxi and stuff?"


I think that the usage of question marks in this written example is valid, as although no question is being asked, it signifies precisely how the speaker is speaking - which ater all, is the whole point of punctuation.

Regards,

Peter
 
That same upward lilt would be employed in speech when asking a rhetorical question:-

"Was it not Julius Caesar who remarked "alea jacta est"?"

But not in the case of, "That was pretty stupid, wasn't it?" (at least the way I say it).

So if the question-mark's purpose is to indicate the upward lilt, should it be omitted in this case? I've been told no.
 
Just to say thanks for the feedback TEiN, very helpful as ever; the scene is supposed to be fairly flat, but I'll try and get more of a sense of the background noise etc. And HB and Peter, thanks again. I don't think it should be omitted HB, but don't listen to me whatever you do!
 
But not in the case of, "That was pretty stupid, wasn't it?" (at least the way I say it).

So if the question-mark's purpose is to indicate the upward lilt, should it be omitted in this case? I've been told no.

I'd agree that it should not be omitted. Although you might not use the upward lilt to denote question intonation, you would almost certainly use other vocal tricks to denote a question:-

"That was pretty stupid, wasn't it?"

You are still asking a (rhetorical) question, but you are replacing the soft upward lilt with a couple of harsher stresses which leave the listener in no doubt as to your views.

In fact, the very existence of "wasn't it" mollifies what would otherwise be a rather blunt and direct comment - "That was pretty stupid." By adding in that little question, we are trying to defuse confrontation and show a measure of empathy, even if it is dressed up in "I told you so" or "you are a chump."

Regards,

Peter
 
Is the rhetorical question really such an issue? I understood what the character meant perfectly fine. His manner and actions heavily suggest that he's asking in a purely self-pitying way - he's looking to confirm his doubts, not gain reassurance that things might in fact be okay. It seemed quite obvious to me.

As for the excerpt in general, I liked it. It flowed nice and smoothly. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads


Back
Top