military protocol/names

[Jo Zebedee]

In the military do senior officers use first names when talking informally? Also, if a military officer was serving on the board of the organisation he/she was in the army of would they have be addressed by their military title by the other board members?

Info seems to be inconsistent, after an hours searching I'm now thoroughly confused.

 

[Boneman]

I just spoke to a Lt Colonel, who says you use their first names only if you're friends, and never in front of the ranks...

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Ok,ty Boneman, if I get no other replies, this is perfect because that's what they're doing. Can I close the thread? No, above my rank!

 

[goldhawk]

Which military? A lot depends on tradition. As for civilians, a lot depends on the company. Some insist on proper names, like Ms. Smith. Others are formally informal and insist on first names only.

 

[Peter Graham]

Info seems to be inconsistent, after an hours searching I'm now thoroughly confused.

That's because it'll depend entirely on the army, the time period and the individuals concerned. The military love rules and conventions, but very often those conventions ape wider social conventions (although they perhaps change less speedily).

Nowadays, I would expect relatively young senior officers addressing those who they consider to be their equals to use first names or - as is far more likely - nicknames.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Jo Zebedee]

So, I suppose provided I'm consistent in my conventions, I can set them? Even in terms of rank etc. because these seem to differ a lot too, exactly as you are saying; from country to country and specialism to specialism. And I haven't even started on era, yet, Peter.

 

[Droflet]

So, I suppose provided I'm consistent in my conventions, I can set them? Even in terms of rank etc. because these seem to differ a lot too, exactly as you are saying; from country to country and specialism to specialism. And I haven't even started on era, yet, Peter.

Yep, you're on the right track. The exception would be the captain of a vessel. He or she is God. Line from an old submarine movie; captain talking to a civilian:
"She's a small boat with a tight knit crew so things are informal. Most people refer to one another by their first name. My first name is captain."

Good luck.

 

[Varangian]

Peter's hit the nail on the head. Officers who are of the same rank and know each other will use first names and nick names when in an informal situation (Regiment dinner, SQN bbq etc). But this is never done in front of the ORs (other ranks) and usually not in front of higher ranking officers.

It also depends on which area of the Army you're talking about. For instance, the Special Air Service Regiment usually have a distinct lack of respect and concern for military procedures, and they're entitled to it, because they've worked damn hard to get where they are. This is not to suggest they are bad soldiers, which is definitely not the case. Hollywood would beg to differ, but SAS soldiers really don't have an equal in the international community.

Another instance that can change interactions between soldiers is war service. I've deployed to Iraq, East Timor and Afghanistan as a soldier, and in Afghanistan in particular officers and soldiers alike were calling each other by their names and nicknames etc. But having 107mm rockets and mortars fired into the base on a regular basis does wonders for relaxing military protocol. When we got back to Australia and onto base again, different matter, back to the norm, but in a warlike scenario, it's a little different.

As Peter said, it also depends upon which Army you're talking about. The Japanes Army are very formal and as far as I know don't tend towards the use of names or nicknames.

Anyway, hope this helps.

 

[geordie bob]

varangian got it spot on or at least he has when it comes to serving in the british army, I served in the gulf, Ireland and bosnia and when we were on tour we had too much on our plates to really worry about military protocol but as varangian says when you return back from tour the old habits kick back in.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

This is really useful, ty, and also really interesting. I have to be honest my knowledge of military etiquette is mostly from Hollywood, and I was assuming it wouldn't be listed as the best source imaginable.

I think because they're a rebel army, and live in close quarters, tend to be friends as well, I can probably have a little less formality, which suits the book better.

 

[Varangian]

Springs, we had a Channel 7 film crew embedded with our deployment to Afghanistan. They filmed quite a bit, and had it in mind to make a three or four part TV mini-series, but due to operational security, most of it was not given clearance to be aired on public tv. The result of all the filming was 1 episode.

If you're interested I uploaded the episode onto youtube (well most of it. Some of it is missing due to stuff ups at my end in recording it).

You can see the first part here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzzXvEKcKys

The other 5 or 6 parts are also up on youtube.

 

[sabolich]

As a former US army officer, yes, the protocol is always to use the rank in front of subordinates. But if you don't like another officer, even of the same rank, you can, poker-faced, call him by his rank whatever the situation. If a good friend gets promoted ahead of you, you can call him by his first name privately, but again, not when it might challenge his authority. That is a good rule of thumb, by the way--any situation where it might demean the superior or make him seem less in charge is a situation where you stick to the protocols. In combat everybody knows who is in charge because the rules have long been established and who's going to care? The enemy? People here are absolutely correct, though, when they say the rules change from army to army. I remember being the guest for a couple of days of a British officers' mess and having a heck of a hard time obeying the rule that rank was left at the door. I could hardly bring myself to call superior officers by their first names despite being directed to do so. In the US army, you have to know someone really well to get away with it. Special Forces is different, but regular troops are fairly well bound by protocol.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

The considered insult of always using the title would work really well, I think. There is one scene where the junior (one rank down) oversteps the mark, and that he loses the control of the considered insult would add an extra edge to this. Ty. Varangian, I missed your post earlier, it must have got buried in the forum, I'll check this out, ty. Will I know which one is you - the one reading a sci fi book, maybe?

 

[Varangian]

Hi Springs, no actually I didn't read any sci-fi over there. During down time I was actually consumed by Bernard Cornwell's 'Sharpe' series. Great series of books.

 

[Tywin]

Not sure what military or branch you are trying to depict, but I am a Major in the US Army and have experience working in Joint (other US DoD agencies) and Coalition (other allied country) headquarters. You can PM me any time if you want to bump any ideas off me, or send me passages of dialogue for the 'cringe test'. The 'cringe test' is where we see if it makes me cringe to read it or hear it - I get that a lot when reading books or watching movies where the dialogue sounds like a civilian trying hard to sound how he thinks a Soldier would speak.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm about a week/two weeks away from editing the key military scenes; I have tried to keep them at a minimum, to avoid the as you say "cringe" factor, and if you were willing to have a look at them then, that would be great. More than great.

Although I'm very sure my cringe test will have massive red marks, rather a la a Chrispy critique.

My thankyou comments in the event of this appearing anywhere is going to consist of the entire regular cast of the Chrons, i think!

 

[Tywin]

I'd love to look them over. I'm interested in getting involved with proofreading in the literary field, so this would be good experience for me. I sent you my email address in a PM.

 

[goldhawk]

I'd love to look them over. I'm interested in getting involved with proofreading in the literary field, so this would be good experience for me. I sent you my email address in a PM.

Then perhaps, you should consider joining Critters. Critters is a site where you can place your work for peer review. But you have to critique others before you're eligible for your own critique. Or you can just critique others without posting your own work.

 

[Tywin]

Then perhaps, you should consider joining Critters. Critters is a site where you can place your work for peer review. But you have to critique others before you're eligible for your own critique. Or you can just critique others without posting your own work.

Thanks for the link, this is just the kind of thing I was looking for. I'm checking out the site as I type.

 

[chrispenycate]

Critters is good; I'm a critter, though not a very good one, as my style is much more focussed on detail. As those who have met my red pen will tell you, I'm a grammar/punctuation and technical discrepancies specialist, while crits wants wider overview, and doesn't allow for the intensive quoting my technique requires; actually, it upsets their system, and they complain.

So it's not good proofreader training; more editor or agent training.