Questions raised in aDWD (SPOILERS)

[The Imp]

Don't read this thread if you haven't read aDWD

Please raise any new questions you have about anything in aDWD here, specifically ones that relate to the overall series.




I'm in the middle of a very slow re-read of aDWD. I just finished the part where Rattleshirt is executed. The question is about Lightbringer. The sowrd is desribed as glowing brighter than the sun, hurting the eyes to look upon it. Why is this happening. It clearly has nothing to do with scarifcing a King, as it wasn't Mance that was being killed. I also remember the same sword (is it the same sword?) not being nearly as bright way back when we first saw it, I think when Mel was buring the Seven. Did I miss something along the way? Why is Lightbringer so bright. Is it possible that it's the real deal?

 

[Ursa major]

It could be the effect of being near the Wall. Doesn't Mel say (or, rather, think) that her powers have strengthened since arriving at Castle Black?

(Or it could be another sign of the increasing power of magic in that world.)

 

[Tywin]

Or it could be that since it's Mel's magic that creates the burning effect, the presence of her spell disguising Rattleshirt as Mance is making it brighter.

 

[TPA]

I remember something about the ruby around her neck burning brightly when she took Jon to reveal Mance...or maybe it was his ruby, can't remember.

 

[Wiggum]

I'm pretty sure it is Ramsay's influence.

Or maybe Ygritte's ghost.

Mel always thought her place was on The Wall to fight the darkness and the Others.

You have that in combination, as brought up by Cul, with the slow return of magic to the world.

I think we all agree that Lightbringer is, in someway, false.

That may change, if her power grows, but at this point it is the bladed equivalent of the mace wielded by Thoros.

 

[Needle]

I'm not sure on this one. I would like to say it's appearance is simply being magnified by Mel for effect. In a room with just a few people it would not have to be especially bright for it to be seen and make an impression. Outside, for a larger group, next to a bonfire, it would have to be quite bright to make an impression. BUT... Mel seems to really believe Stannis is AA reborn, so why would she fake the sword? Yet I am convinced it is a fake, so if she is not doing it, why does it glow at all?

Helpful aren't I?

 

[Pilpel]

I've been wondering about this for a while now.
Does Mel know about Dany and her dragons? There must have been at least vague rumors about dragons in the east. And if she did know, wouldn't that change her understanding of the prophecy? At least make her consider Dany as a better candidate (which she obviously is - a targ with dragons. and what does stannis have without mel? nothing!)

 

[Ursa major]

That might change her view, in theory, but humans** sometimes tend to hold onto ideas long after they've been superseded, so I won't be holding my breath re a Mel reappraisal of Dany.

(And as evidence of that tendency, we need look no further than Mel seemingly ignoring the evidence in front of her eyes: the appearance of Jon in her visions when she's meant to be conjuring up images of AA reborn.)





** - I assume the humanoids living on the ASoIaF world are mostly like us.

 

[The Imp]

Here's another question

this is the exhange between Bowen Marsh and Jon

. "Lord Snow, I am not one to bear tales, but there has been talk that you are becoming too … too friendly with Lord Stannis. Some even suggest that you are … a …"
A rebel and a turncloak, aye, and a ******* and a warg as well. Janos Slynt might be gone, but his lies lingered. "I know what they say."

Is Jon naming himself (to himself) as being a warg, or is he just being sarcastic. He knows about the wolf dreams. He spits out the taste of blood that was in his human mouth after one of Ghost's kills. knowing he is a warg for certain has implications for later in the book. Just ask Needle

 

[Needle]

Question Imp, about where in the story is this exchange?

It is interesting that the falsehoods (rebel and turncloak) are grouped together and the truths (******* and warg) are grouped together, in his own mind!

 

[The Imp]

Question Imp, about where in the story is this exchange?

It is interesting that the falsehoods (rebel and turncloak) are grouped together and the truths (******* and warg) are grouped together, in his own mind!

AMybe halfway into the chapter where Rattleshirt is burned

 

[Needle]

AMybe halfway into the chapter where Rattleshirt is burned

In that case it is very likely that Jon did indeed know and admit (at least to himself) that he is indeed a warg!

 

[The Imp]

In that case it is very likely that Jon did indeed know and admit (at least to himself) that he is indeed a warg!

Elaborate please.

 

[Needle]

Elaborate please.

They gave me computer access at work, guess I'm a bigshot now since only one has access to the web (the rest hold medical records)! having said that, I will get back to you on my thinking for the above post after I get home so I have my references available!

 

[The Imp]

They gave me computer access at work, guess I'm a bigshot now since only one has access to the web (the rest hold medical records)! having said that, I will get back to you on my thinking for the above post after I get home so I have my references available!

Fair enough.

 

[Needle]

Okay Imp here goes!

I will skip over all Jon learned about wargs while with the wildlings, we know all that.

Previous to the burning of Mance (Rattleshirt) Jon accepts as truth to himself that Ghost knows Grey Wind is dead ( and he knows Ghost knows), that Summer and Shaggydog are alive and that it was Summer who saved his life as he escaped the wildlings. Also wondering if some part of his brothers lives on in their wolves. he says all this to himself in his first chapter in ADWD.

Later in the same chapter where Rattleshirt burns he thinks I am a man not a wolf at the same time he is spitting the taste of blood out of his mouth and knowing it means Ghost has just killed!

These things and my gut are my reasoning for thinking he was admitting to himself he was a warg at this point. I did in my review find further proof (to me anyway) of my corpse theory. These are:

The next 2 Jon chapters provide nothing, all talk of stores, Stannis going to the Flints, and the scene in Mole Town. The next one however is where Mel tells him of her visions of Arya after he gets the news of her marriage. At chapters end she tells him "Take my hand and let me save your sister." It is the end of the chapter, there is no reply.

The next one is Mel's first chapter. Here Jon learns the truth about Mance and he is sent after Arya. The very next Jon chapter he is bringing back corpses! Coincidence? I think not!

 

[The Imp]

Okay Imp here goes!

I will skip over all Jon learned about wargs while with the wildlings, we know all that.

Previous to the burning of Mance (Rattleshirt) Jon accepts as truth to himself that Ghost knows Grey Wind is dead ( and he knows Ghost knows), that Summer and Shaggydog are alive and that it was Summer who saved his life as he escaped the wildlings. Also wondering if some part of his brothers lives on in their wolves. he says all this to himself in his first chapter in ADWD.

Later in the same chapter where Rattleshirt burns he thinks I am a man not a wolf at the same time he is spitting the taste of blood out of his mouth and knowing it means Ghost has just killed!

These things and my gut are my reasoning for thinking he was admitting to himself he was a warg at this point. I did in my review find further proof (to me anyway) of my corpse theory. These are:

The next 2 Jon chapters provide nothing, all talk of stores, Stannis going to the Flints, and the scene in Mole Town. The next one however is where Mel tells him of her visions of Arya after he gets the news of her marriage. At chapters end she tells him "Take my hand and let me save your sister." It is the end of the chapter, there is no reply.

The next one is Mel's first chapter. Here Jon learns the truth about Mance and he is sent after Arya. The very next Jon chapter he is bringing back corpses! Coincidence? I think not!

I agree with what you say. Jon knows that he is in Ghost when he has a wolf dream, but the more important question is, does he understand what that means, and does he realize he can control it. I think the answer might be that since Jon has already seen at least two wrags at work, it's a virtual certainty that he knows he has this ability, and him saying "and a ******* and a warg' is not sarcasm but bitter truth.

Thanks for helping me get to that point