Infodumps and the best way to avoid them?

[Theory5]

While browsing the writing forums I have come across a word that while I was not familiar with though it makes perfect sense. The word is Infodump, and I find that is exactly how I write, with lots of information to explain my world in the first few chapters. I've tried to keep my information down so that the only real large blocks of info are when I am describing a scene, but I don't think thats enough.

Take this:
"As he walked through the doors of the AmCentral Bank of Currency and Finance, Altair casually glanced about the place. For an orbital station office, it was quite spacious, not to mention luxurious. Once inside the bank, safe from the noise and bustle of the station’s main concourse outside, one was greeted with a spectacular water fountain right in the middle of the bank. On the left wall there was a long row of bank terminals, and on the right was a series of privacy and comm booths for secure communications either between two physical parties, or for business that was conducted between two distant parties. On the far wall, all the way back, were several teller windows for physical item transactions, two doors that led to back areas, and a large rectangular piece of reflective glass that separated the security office from the customer area. Scattered here and there were a few large wooden desks, for the wealthier clients to conduct their business with real employees, rather than terminal machines."



that is my first stab at building a scene.



and this is one of my "infodumps":

"The network that handled doors, airlocks, and access hatches was an extension of the transport systems network, which handled lifts, railed vehicles, and various other transport systems appeared to be riddled with small viruses and other types of malicious software that was set to cause havok at certain system during certain times. Terry had no doubt that it was set to mirror the enemies advance through the ship, keeping the crew and marines from reaching their destinations on time, while the enemy was able to sweep through the ship.
He also knew that all tech security personnel who were not currently fighting for their lives would be frantically working to thwart the programs that were right now doing their best to disrupt the ships systems.
After a few minutes of removing malicious code to allow the door to function correctly, it slid open revealing the aftermath of a bloody firefight. "

Are these too wordy? Or do these give proper amounts of information? I have paragraphs like the second one scattered throughout the story so far, even though I only have about seven pages. Oh and forgive the writing if I used any tenses that do not match up. I have that problem but when I go back and edit it that will be fixed.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I had a real problem with this, probably still do. and what I was advised, amongst other things was to show, not tell; ie put in action. So, for your first paragraph can you have someone actually using a booth?

Also, how much does the reader really have to know; do we need to know why the network was an extension, the exact workings. It's important you, in your mind, know these things so you can see the scene, but is it important that I, the reader, knows them. Does the minutiae move the story on?

That's what I tend to ask myself now; can I show it through action? Do they need to know now or can I hold some info back/spread it through the book? is it for me to know to describe the world best, and if so does the reader need to know to.

Many more learned people will follow this rambling post with much better advice, but that's what works for me.

 

[MemoryTale]

This is a classic case of telling rather than showing. Instead of telling us what the virus will do, why not show some marines trying to fight through the ship while doors are opening and closing randomly? Or if the action has to stay with Terry, he can get a call from a marine telling him what the problems are - it's still telling rather than showing, but it's done less infodumpy.

As for the description about the bank, how many of the features you've described end up being important in some way? If you're concerned that it's too infodumpy again, omit anything that isn't important, except for the fountain which I think gives a good picture. Even important things can be omitted at first. For example, if someone gets lead through one of the doors to a back area, tell us about the door when they go through it.

 

[Boneman]

I used to think infodumps were all bad; but finding the balance between necessary descriptive information to inform the reader/move the story along, and unnecessary descriptive elements that distract (some) people, is so incredibly hard... There are readers who love them, and can't get enough of the detail (look at how many copies the Wheel Of Time sold...), and there are people (like me...) who get bored looking at a wall of text, and give up reading. I'll admit that I got down to

and on the right was a series of privacy and comm booths for secure communications

before I found myself scanning for the next action. The 2nd para is better, because there is action interspersed in the descriptive bits.

The best advice I was ever given about infodumping was this: give your reader just enough to let him see the picture and don't keep telling him, or his imagination has nothing to do, and he becomes bored. A film never lingers on a wall so we can read a sign that says: it was a long row of bank terminals, and on the right was a series of privacy and comm booths for secure communications either between two physical parties, or for business that was conducted between two distant parties.- it just passes over them, so we know they're part of the bank, but we're not bothered about them. Unless it's necessary for us to know what they're there for, we just accept them as part of the bank, and follow our hero as he walks in, because he's the most important part of the whole scene.

Descriptive information is a necessary, if not vital, part of any novel, and I'm certain, since you're aware of it, that you'll see them in rewrites and editing and decide if they're relevant and adding something to the story, or padding that can be done without. Good luck; I don't think there's a writer out there who doesn't infodump to some degree - the best writers make it look easy, that's the difference.

 

[The Judge]

So far as your bank scene description is concerned, to me it does appear over-detailed, especially if this was coming in the first few pages, but a lot depends upon who the POV character is and what he's doing in the bank. If he's a robber come to case the bank in order to establish how to get the cash, then all these details will be necessary, though whether we should get them all at once is quite a different matter. If he's just come to write a cheque, it's overkill.

So far as description goes, you need to give a flavour of a scene, and then move on -- so the fountain establishes opulence, which is fine. But unless the actual mechanics of the booths etc are important to the story I'd edit out much of the information like "for business... conducted between two distant parties".

With regard to the second bit, it could be tightened, but it's not the worst info-dump by any means. (Though my nit-picking talons were itching at the writing itself, I have to say -- there are a number of elementary mistakes you will need to sort out in editing.)

Basically, as springs says, you have to ask yourself whether it's important or helpful to the story.

 

[Theory5]

Ah ok. I am trying to convey that it is a prestigious bank, one of those that are in big cities that awe you when you walk in. I was also trying to convey that the only human "tellers" there are only there to handle wealthy clients, not everyday people. I got the idea from another book that explained how in resturants only very expensive ones had actual human staff, due to robots being so much cheaper. So human staff are a sign of prestige (at least on this orbital station).

I am a fan of John Ringo's writing, but I read in a review that he only develops the world enough so that he can further the story. I am trying to avoid that, and give the reader a fully immersive world.

MemoryTale, I think you read my mind. The protagonist in the bank does go through the back, and that's actually what I am working on writing now. I will definatly chisel down that first paragraph and focus more on what the protagonist is doing.

The Judge, actually yes, he is infiltrating the bank posing as a wealthy potential client so he can steal an interstellar ship. So I should have specified that he was casing the joint, so to speak.

And yes, I know there are a LOT of mistakes, which I will sort out when editing. This is more of a rough draft because the last few stories I tried to write ended up dying because I focused to much on the writing itself.

 

[Venusian Broon]

It is difficult to tell without a full context, but yes both come across as pretty dense with information.

In the first one, if that's Altair's casual glance, I'd like to see what a detailed look is written up as! To me a casual glance will tell me something simple like, say that the bank was crowded/empty.

Essentially we as readers have a good idea what the inside of a bank looks like - and yours isn't too different from our current mental picture, so I'd only describe what Altair physically does - say where he talks with someone, manipulates a terminal etc...but even then a table is a table is a table, don't go overboard.

---

The second, reading between the lines, appears to be in the middle of some action - so a detailed description seems out of place. Dialogue is a great way of reducing everything to very little and maintaining pace...

so as an example I'd replace the whole of the second bit (don't know what the exact situation is, but imagining two - XX and Terry, outside the door):

"Terry, open the damn door!"
"I can't. I think the (enemy) have flooded the network with malicious code, the system isn't responding." For a few nervous minutes XX stood guard while Terry hacked the door, then "Well, I'm not tech security - but got it!" The door slid to reveal...

If it was just Terry, you could replace it with his thoughts, along the lines of

Damn door is jammed, thought Terry, the (enemy) have flooded the network with malicious code. I'll need to hack the door. A few nervous minutes later the familiar sound of the door motors whirred into action, but slid to reveal...

These ain't perfect but get the jist of what is happening without being given a blueprint of the spaceship.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

http://thebookshelfmuse.blogspot.com/2008/01/anger-clenchingunclenching-fists-nails.html

I find this useful for inspiration - like the others said keep it brief sometimes tell is better and less likely to bore the backside off a reader than showing it through action.

Other questions I ask myself as I am writing are does this keep the story moving forward? Can this be shown through action. Write what you like to read yourself - go to your bookshelf, pick your favourite book and look at how much description there is and how it's laid out.

 

[Abernovo]

I certainly would not call myself more learned than Springs, but here 's my two pen'orth.

The general rule is 'Show, don't Tell'. That is, as previously explained, can it be shown in action? For instance:

On the left wall there was a long row of bank terminals, and on the right was a series of privacy and comm booths for secure communications either between two physical parties, or for business that was conducted between two distant parties

How about: The left hand wall was lined with terminals. To his right were secure comm booths, all occupied by traders and brokers.

It says pretty much the same thing and, if you need to explain more detail about comm booths later on, it gives you a base line from which to build. That's another thing - breaking up the information into palatable bites can stop it being dumped in one go.

Even knowing this, you are not immune from the curse of infodumping. I suspect all of us can be guilty - thankfully, that's what rewrites are there for, which, as you rightly say, is when they can be fixed.

So, I would say that, yes, I find these segments a little bit heavy, but they can be corrected later. First off, write the story. Good luck.

 

[Peter Graham]

As ever, there are no rules as such. Plenty of writers info dump and plenty of writers tell rather than show. Sometimes, info dumping is integral to the plot and is done via the character of the narrator (check out Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy where the info dumping is a positive merit of the writing).

The problem for most of us is that we don't know a) that we are doing it at all and/or, b) what we are seeking to achieve in doing it. In these cases, it will always just look like a clumsy dump of extraneous and usually boring material.

It's all about the story. If we genuinely need to know something, tell us. If we don't, forget it.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Venusian Broon]

Thinking about the whole infodump question.

It did strike me that I do actively use the infodump 'technique' in my first (never to be shown!) draft.

So for example, if I'm struggling to put together what should occur or what a character says - instead of writing [INSERT DESCRIPTION HERE] or whatever, I deliberately overload the whole section with information that is all pertinent to the situation. When I then come back and re-draft it it sort of gives me a choice of what I could boil it down to and make better.

Secondly, as people have mentioned above there are some excellent, well-written infodumps in novels. To name a famous example, in LotR the two major infodump chapters are probably my favourite parts of the whole book - namely when Gandalf talks ring lore with Frodo at Bag end and the Council of Enrond. After them I think the novel goes downhill

 

[Toby Frost]

Or The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism in 1984, which is simply an essay in a novel.

There's nothing wrong with putting too much in and then editing it down. Quite often, when seeking to describe something in particular, actually saying where everything is or exactly what it's like won't be as effective as using selected details to make the point.

"In the control room, Jones checked the dials. The needles flickered at half-pressure: drive-belts whirred in the rafters. Curls of paper clattered out of the logic engine's slots. Jones took out a fresh punch-card and pushed it into the main cylinder on the cogitator..."

All of the above (hopefully) gives the impression of some sort of clockwork computer, without actually describing it overall. The reader can decide how it actually looks, but the impression and atmosphere should already be there. The main question is: What are the distinctive features that need to be described?

Part of the problem may be having confidence in the description to say what you need, without actually having to spell it out. For instance, your sentences:

"As he walked through the doors of the AmCentral Bank of Currency and Finance, Altair casually glanced about the place. For an orbital station office, it was quite spacious, not to mention luxurious..."

could probably be trimmed (rather ruthlessly) to:

"As he walked through the doors of the AmCentral Bank of Currency and Finance, Altair glanced around..."

as the second sentence is merely specifically telling the reader what he ought to pick up from the description that follows. Also, be wary of putting explanation into action scenes, where it will slow things down. In that situation, either put the explanation in earlier, or make it very concise. Take the line in Aliens, where the soldiers are securing their base: "It only takes one of those bastards to get in here..." Immediately we know what the priority of the scene is: stop the aliens getting in at all costs.

Of course, infodumps can work. For me the classic example is the mission briefing, which tells the reader what to expect, as well as starting the tension.

 

[AMB]

Make it the 'luxurious AmCentral Bank of Currency and Finance', and you are well away. Tells you everything but that it is unusual for an orbital station, which you could probably bung in elsewhere.

Once you've written out your location in detail, imagine you have just visited it for the first time. What is your reaction? Do you find it dingy, extravagant, plain? Make note of whatever one or two word descriptors that come to mind. See if you can pare down your description to just these and the most important features.

So, using your bank as an example. It is spacious, and insulated from the bustle of station concourse. Its main features are the spectacular central fountain, various instruments of business along the walls (terminals left, privacy and comm booths right, tellers for physical goods at back), and the occasional manned desk reserved for the wealthier clientèle. There is also an area at the back sectioned off by glass, presumably a security office. For now, we'll ignore the two doors, as they can come into play when your protagonist is about to go through one of them.

Would you agree this is the minimum both your protagonist and the reader need to know? If so, you now have a long description (what you had initially) which tells you everything you need to know in case it becomes vital to the plot, and a short one that briefly sets the scene. You also have your keyword, luxurious, which gives the reader a sense of the place.

---

As for the other bit, it took me a few reads to understand what it was trying to convey. Let me see if I have it straight.

The access point and transport systems networks (controlling doors, airlocks and hatches, as well as lifts, rail and other vehicles) are infected with viruses and other malware that target specific parts of the system at specific times, allowing the enemy to advance throughout the ship while at the same time hindering the crew's movements. Tech security are being forced to fight the battle on two fronts; the physical threat and fixing the disruption to the ships systems.

Is that an accurate summary?

Yes? Alrighty.

How to Assess your Infodump

First, you want to know what you were trying to get across when you wrote it. A point by point breakdown could help tremendously here. Then you need to decide if there is any information that could have been given elsewhere in the story. Finally, work out if there is anything you thought was relevant at the time that doesn't actually serve any real function, or loses its function after you've shifted stuff around.

Again, using your example. Let's break our infodump into its component parts.

1a) The access system controls doors, airlocks and hatches; the possible routes for getting around the ship.

1b) The transport system controls lifts, rail cars and other vehicles; the methods of getting around the ship.

1c) The two systems are connected to each other.

2a) The above systems have been infected by nasties; viruses and malware.

2b) This is causing the crew problems getting around, but the enemy seem to be having no problems moving about the ship.

2c) Our protagonist thinks there is a pattern to what parts of the system are affected at what time, and that it correlates to the enemy's movements while purposefully putting the crew at a disadvantage.

3) Tech security are having a hard time clearing the system as they are also under attack.

The next order of business is to figure out if any of these points can be shifted to a point elsewhere in the story and still have the scene make sense. in this case, #1 is a technical detail that could possibly be placed somewhere earlier on. See if you've got somewhere it might come up naturally, either as one idea or broken up into its separate sub points that might appear as throwaway lines.

That leaves us with points #2 and #3.

How do we find out about #2a? From the bit of action immediately after, I'm guessing that Terry has just accessed the system to override the door, and has discovered the cause of its whacky behaviour.

Now, we don't currently know what happened immediately prior to your infodump because you rightly didn't share, so we don't know how much you have already shown. Terry's supposition in #2c relies on you having shown the information in #2b a little beforehand, otherwise he mightn't have made that connection. As such, #2b goes the way of point #1.

What does #3 bring to the table? Is it that the system won't be repaired any time soon because most of the tech guys are busy fighting for their lives, thus necessitating Terry trying to do a bit of the job himself to get the door open? Is it just a way to try and bring us back into the action? If it serves a purpose, leave it in. If not, rewrite it so it does or scrap it entirely.

Obviously, if you really can't find a place for #1 elsewhere in the story then keep it. Don't lessen the strength of other parts just for the sake of improving a couple of paragraphs.

---

Has anyone noticed yet that I make these things up as I go along...?

 

[Ursa major]

Has anyone noticed yet that I make these things up as I go along...?

We've decided, collectively, to duck that isse, AMB.

 

[hopewrites]

for me "infodump"s are the most blatant pace-setters in any given piece of writing. In the first description you could leave in all the detail by having him casually stroll through the bank, looking at the various parts of it for someone. Or give it in snippets laced throughout the story as he encounters each one individually.
when I think of infodumps I think of unnecessary detail. and then my mind rebels because no detail is "unnecessary" and then my sense rebels and says "true, but you dont have to tell people how many apples went into the pie for them to know it was an apple pie"
I would agree with those who have recommended finding a balance that works for your story, and point out that the way something is described tells the reader alot about the pace of the story when it is being described.
ie: no one is counting petals on the flowers they are running over when there is a dragon breathing fire down their backs. so too, counting petals is a very good occupation for the night watch with nothing to watch for.

 

[David B]

Sorry, couldn't stop myself having a crack at the second scene. How about:

Attacking viruses fooled the transport system into a depressurisation shutdown, sealing all the spaceship's doors and airlocks, isolating the crew from marine reinforcements. Beneath his feet, Terry heard ominous clanking as the enemy swept through unobstructed maintenance ducts. Surrounding partitions rattled with explosions as the invaders cleared adjacent decks with grenades tossed out of manual hatches. He hijacked two cargo pallets and turned them into a makeshift bomb shelter while the techs struggled to purge the network. When they succeeded, his door slid open and trickles of blood leaked over its threshold.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I think rather than "show don't tell" my first principle with infodumps is "less is more".

I know in the past when writing I've felt the need to described everything to the nth degree, thinking this is exactly what is needed when composing a scene.

But as a reader, a couple of choice words will create a full visual scene in my mind, and too concerted attempts at description grate and cause me to skip.

Therefore now I look more at how published writers convey the most information with the fewest words - Stephen King's especially pushes the point in "On Writing".

As for background information, I'm currently editing my work and clearing out anything that is not ultimately necessary, whether for immediate context or foreshadowing. And where information is required, keeping it as simple and succinct as possible and moving on.

I used to get very carried away with including huge chunks of text describing historical events which are either directly or indirectly relevant to the plot. Now, I delete them, or sift the most important points of information and include them in passing.

 

[Hex]

Sorry, couldn't stop myself having a crack at the second scene. How about:

Attacking viruses fooled the transport system into a depressurisation shutdown, sealing all the spaceship's doors and airlocks, isolating the crew from marine reinforcements. Beneath his feet, Terry heard ominous clanking as the enemy swept through unobstructed maintenance ducts. Surrounding partitions rattled with explosions as the invaders cleared adjacent decks with grenades tossed out of manual hatches. He hijacked two cargo pallets and turned them into a makeshift bomb shelter while the techs struggled to purge the network. When they succeeded, his door slid open and trickles of blood leaked over its threshold.

I love the end of this -- the trickles of blood. Urgh.

The first thing that occurs to me is that Terry is a very calm observer -- apart from 'ominous' there's not really any sense of his emotional involvement. I think if he was cowering under his cargo pallets, listening to the clanks in the shafts/ feeling the walls shake as the grenades exploded, it would come over as less information-dense.

I wondered how Terry knew that the enemy were throwing the grenades (I'll assume a grenade sounds different from another explosion) out of the manual hatches, or why he would care -- unless he was making a specific effort to be far away from one. Also, I wondered how he knew what the techs were doing -- were they in the same room?

I liked it. I'd just add danger and fear.

 

[sabolich]

"As he walked through the doors of the AmCentral Bank of Currency and Finance, Altair casually glanced about the place. For an orbital station office, it was quite spacious, not to mention luxurious. Once inside the bank, safe from the noise and bustle of the station’s main concourse outside, one was greeted with a spectacular water fountain right in the middle of the bank. On the left wall there was a long row of bank terminals, and on the right was a series of privacy and comm booths for secure communications either between two physical parties, or for business that was conducted between two distant parties. On the far wall, all the way back, were several teller windows for physical item transactions, two doors that led to back areas, and a large rectangular piece of reflective glass that separated the security office from the customer area. Scattered here and there were a few large wooden desks, for the wealthier clients to conduct their business with real employees, rather than terminal machines."

Hmm, yes. It's not as bad as I lot I've read but it is certainly wordy and cluttered with obvious information and probably a lot of extraneous detail. What this paragraph is doing in the draft is setting the visual in your mind as the author. Once that is established, in the revision you need to figure out what details are actually important for the reader to know, and what they can figure out for themselves. For instance:

"a series of privacy and comm booths for secure communications either between two physical parties, or for business that was conducted between two distant parties."

Well...duh, what else are comm booths for but communication? It doesn't matter what the "two physical parties" are talking about or where they're located. Any communication is a form of business in the broadest stretch of the word. The "privacy" booths are more interesting because that may come into play at some point.

It's easy to add supporting detail to the detail as you've done, which presumes the reader is too dumb to figure things out for themselves. Pay your audience the compliment of assuming they can keep up. Details should always be tossed in as and when you need them, either as foreshadowing (no you can't have a door magically appear when the bad guy is trapped and you just really need one); or as they become important:

"Joe ducked into the bank, cast a frantic look around, and screamed "Thank you, God!" as he dove into the armored safety of one of the privacy booths AmCentral was famous for. He slammed the door and grinned at the two goons glowering at him from the lobby, where shocked traders stood by the huge fountain in the center staring at the very illegal pulse guns the goons were stuffing back into their shirts."

This trip into the bank is admittedly much more exciting than your guy's unstressed saunter into it, but it gives us not only his mood (scared, thankful) but tells us something of his personality (quick-thinking, a little snarky), his situation (running from guys with guns), and the existence of privacy booths, the fountain, and a few passersby caught in the middle. You did not tell us *why* these things exist; we can infer from the bank setting that they are there to facilitate confidential financial dealings in a fairly nice setting (the fountain is a nice touch). And, if this were the opening to your novel, it is a hell of a hook and I would read on to find out how he's going to explain those bad guys or get out of the bank alive.

Avoiding infodumps is a matter of action and dialogue. Use those whenever, repeat, whenever, you are tempted to discourse for paragraphs of straight Telling about how things look, what's going on, and why Something Is Important (drumroll). You can overdo it; I just had a first draft of my latest novel ripped to shreds (mostly in a kind way) by my crit group for overdoing the "info as dialogue" stuff, but what that accomplished in the draft was sorting out why things were happening. That allowed me in the revision to actually cut 10 pages of a meeting and dump it into a single line of imparted information between two characters. But I had to sort all that out mentally first.

First drafts are full of infodumps and that's okay, because you as the author are learning about your world and its setting. In a way it's like writing a synopsis, which starts out about 20 pages, then gets boiled down to the five the agent allows, then the 1 the next agent allows, and finally to the one beautiful paragraph for your cover letter, and then the 1-line tagline you need when somebody asks "what is your book about?" The worldbuilding starts out at 400 pages, then 200, then fifty really critical paragraphs, casual dialogue comments, and important details tossed in throughout the book. The point is, you have to know it first, so you can sort through all that mud looking for the gems that your reader really must know in order for it all to make sense.

Does that help?

 

[Theory5]

Oh wow thanks all of your suggestions helped so much. This has given me a better understanding of how to write out pieces of information (without being boring) as well as make my story flow a bit better.