reading/writing groups.

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm not sure if this has ever come up before; probably has. I know a lot of the writers here are well past the stage that they need an extra pair of eyes to see if things make sense, but I'm at the stage where I still do.

Where I am there are no writing groups that I'm aware of, and certainly none that do sci fi and fantasy, so this option isn't open to me. I know there are other sites dedicated to critiquing, but somehow I like the Chrons better, and feel more comfortable here. But I do like that it's a shared sort of thing; I'm not looking something for nothing.

So, I wondered was there anywhere where an aspiring writer can say I have a (for the sake of argument) 85000 word Sci fi novel ready for feedback, can I help some else by reviewing theirs? Or another eg which came up recently was someone looking for proofreading experience.

I know and agree that a critique of your writing style can be done in short bursts, but the sense of whether a story works from beginning to end, characters behave as they should for the whole book etc. etc, can't be.

Even if we had a list of people interested at any time, we could PM them and keep it off the threads.

Any thoughts?

 

[Abernovo]

I don't think it's a bad idea, Springs. In fact, I believe it's already been done on an ad hoc basis between individual members.

 

[Arkose]

I started to look for writing groups in my area and I did find one, haven't been to a meeting yet. I do know they use yahoo to post what ever they are looking at. You could also do something similar with google.docs.

I don't know when I will start to write again (see the thread I created in general), probably be a month to get my head into order, but I want to read as much as I can. Although, I don't want to read someones book that is giving a real effort into their writing, which is why I haven't brought it up before.

I would love to join a group of writers that put a great deal of effort in their work, but I will only be a reader for at-least 2-3 months. I do want see others writings (as I think critiquing others helps your own writing) and critique, I try the best I can in the critique thread.

(I have seen this discussed a couple of times, and some don't like dealing with people they don't know)

*Abernovo: I know some have*

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I don't think it's a bad idea, Springs. In fact, I believe it's already been done on an ad hoc basis between individual members.

I know it is, and have been quietly doing a bit of it myself, I just thought it might be nice to have somewhere where you could check who's interested. I'd hate to ask someone, and they're not interested, and put them in the embarrassing position of saying no, or even worse yes and have to wade through something for the sake of it.

I
I do want see others writings (as I think critiquing others helps your own writing) and critique, I try the best I can in the critique thread.

(I have seen this discussed a couple of times, and some don't like dealing with people they don't know)

Absolutely; that's one of the reason's I think a quid pro quo is good, as I learn as much from critiquing as I do from receiving one.

And the last point, I suppose, is the key one; on the Chrons we get to know each other over time, so maybe it's more comfortable. And if someone doesn't want to, they'll not be asked.

 

[The Judge]

Yes, it's come up before, springs. I can recall this thread of Perp's from last year which touched on it among other ideas http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/531961-the-chrons-writing-circle-thoughts.html

As it is, the place to ask is right here in GWD (well it would be if this were GWD, not Workshop... I'll move the thread when I've finished...)

The idea of a list I don't think would work as well, because a person who is available to help out now, might not be in two months time, and vice versa. And although people will undoubtedly be willing to help you, there may be some members whose writing isn't as accomplished and/or who aren't liked because of how they behave and/or who have only recently joined and who haven't been seen to pay their Chrons dues and/or from whom one wouldn't want help in return... if there were a I-will-help-list and such members were gaily sending PMs demanding help, it would mean those on the list would be in the invidious position of having to refuse, which isn't very pleasant for anyone.

Anyway, while I'm here, I can help a little if you're desperate -- though I'm more a nit picky look-for-minor-issues than a big picture person, so I'm probably not what you want.

The other options:

-- start your own writing group! On line or otherwise.

-- think about a professional editor. Teresa's help was invaluable to me, and well worth the cost -- if you can raid the children's piggy banks for a loan, it's a good step to take.


EDIT: and checking Perp's thread, I see I've come up with contradictory opinions to those I expressed then. That's a lawyer for you, always able to argue any side...

 

[Abernovo]

I suppose a thread where a person could say 'I have a XX word long story, genre and basic premise - would anyone be up for proofreading?' would be a good idea. Nor would it have to be an immediate quid pro quo. You'd soon get a feel for anybody who was taking all the time.

I completely understand your concerns about asking.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

There are online writer's groups, if you look for them. I know of one good one, through a friend, but it's all fantasy. Try some Googling and see what you come up with.

I suppose you've already looked around the Aspiring Writers section to see if there are any writers from your part of Ireland here? If not, take a look, and see if there is anyone you might approach about forming a face-to-face group.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I knew there must be a thread somewhere, but my search didn't throw this one up, and i can see I've opened a can of worms. oops.... and, yes, I can see making sure it was contributory would be a problem; I sometimes forget not everyone is as good about sharing and contributing as the regulars here ( I have a general belief that most people are sharers, and despite getting let down continue to believe in the milk of human kindness....)

And, TJ, don't take this the wrong way, but I'd have nothing to give back the other way, so I'd feel uncomfortable asking if that makes sense.

I'll leave it that I'm open to exchanging WIP with others who're interested and send me a PM if so.

As far as I can see TE, there's only 4 regulars on the Chrons from Ireland, and we're all at least 100 miles apart! (in opposite directions!) although if any of them know of a writers group in the vicinity, I'd love to know.

I would love to go down the professional editing route, but funds would be the issue right at this point; you have no idea how tight the kiddies hold onto their piggy banks!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Even though I do professional editing, I always recommend a smallish writer's group first, if you can find a good one. As I said, you might be able to find one that exchanges manuscripts and critiques online. If you find the right sort of group, the benefits can be enormous (and they cost you nothing but time).

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Try asking your nearest library if you can start one ?

 

[Hex]

I'm often up for swapping readings, though that doesn't work for you, Springs, because we already have! It would be nice if we could make the idea work, but I do see there are potential problems with it.

How about this for starters: we could exchange critter identities and do critiques through them?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

And I would heartedly reccommend Hex! Transformed the book, she has. And there were two others who've helped me; one early on which really really useful and one with the military aspects, who again really really helped and at least made sure I didn't embarrass myself totally. (but I don't want to name names in case they wish to stay anonymous).

 

[hopewrites]

I would like to help, but I would only be good for advising on content. I think everyone here has seen where my spelling and grammar are so I would hope that kind of help wouldn't be expected of me (i have to get this beam out of my eye before I can see the sty kind of deal). But I love a good story and can point up where things are exciting and flowing well, give feed back on emotive responses evoked by language used.
I'm quick to read but slow to respond because I like my feed back to be thought-full as well as thoughtful.
so there is my hat in the ring.

 

[alchemist]

I'm about a year from having a shareable manuscript, but I'd happily read yours springs. I'm good on spelling etc but weak on finding subtle plot holes. I'm also good on spotting problems but poor at naming them. As yours is YA (IIRC) it would be good for me to read it.

 

[Boneman]

And I would heartedly reccommend Hex! Transformed the book, she has. And there were two others who've helped me; one early on which really really useful and one with the military aspects, who again really really helped and at least made sure I didn't embarrass myself totally. (but I don't want to name names in case they wish to stay anonymous).

Yes, I'd prefer to stay anonymous... ah... er... And don't do yourself down, about being a mega-reader. As you know, we're so close to our own work, we often miss things that just don't work. Having someone read the whole thing and give you honest opinions, not necessarily informed critique, is incredibly helpful, and can move the work on enormously. I know of books that have been critiqued incredibly well as they were written (mine, in particular!) that another mega-reader than looked at and gave input that turned a couple of sections around, and made them so much better. Let's face it, we want readers to read (ie Jo and Josephine Public) and critiquers to critique. If anyone acts as a reader, it's a great gateway into what we ultimately need: "does this work?"

And you can be sure (Marlon Brando Godfather voice) some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me. But until that day, consider this reading a gift on my daughter's wedding day... Okay, I don't have a daughter, but you get my drift.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

And you can be sure (Marlon Brando Godfather voice) some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me. But until that day, consider this reading a gift on my daughter's wedding day... Okay, I don't have a daughter, but you get my drift.

Scared now Since I've heartily endorsed Hex, I can now say that Boneman is also excellent! My passive voice has never fully recovered, thankfully!

also, the other thing BM did was give me a bit of confidence early on, that it was at least readible, that the story/draft really wasn't completely daft.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I too would be open for ad-hoc and informal requests to critique large and very large manuscripts. But on the proviso that it's a swap of manuscripts at the same stage roughly (or similar wordcount blocks as well I suppose).

This is because reading to me is a creative process as well, and when I'm writing my own first draft I find it very distracting trying to read a novel-length fiction at the same time. It would also be automatically fair for both of us as a transaction.

A very kind person on these forums noticed my distress at critiquing recently and helpfully pointed me to the Critters website, which looks great. It would seem to be a good solution for a more formal critiquing - and in bite sized chunks, which I think I might be able to manage.

However what are peoples experiences of this site? Is it a no-brainer; should I sign up immediately?? Anyone have any bad experiences of it???

The weekly critique target looks daunting, but looking at the positives:
-It would probably be good to deliberately take a day off the main writing project; would help to keep it fresh.
-Analysing and critiquing must help my writing development
-I suppose if it's all too much, I can gracefully resign from the site.

I have plenty of finished stuff that could be sent out as well...I'm tottering on joining.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm on my second week in, and I've done 3 in the first week and 2 this week. I've found it okay, although the quality has been quite diverse; some excellent, some less so.

I think Hex's idea was a good one, those of us who are using Critter could exchange our Critter names and provide critiques on them, if we can. If anyone wants to, they could PM me their ident's and I'll send them round those interested?

 

[Starchaser3000]

Is there such a place where I can just post specially selected paragraphs of my work, such as action or comedy scenes for example, to be critiqued and I can critique whatever said critic has? I just don't want to bore anybody with a 5 to 10 page post of my manuscript because I really don't want to have to read that much either in return.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Once you reach 30 posts you can put short excerpts on the critique thread here.