Flower in the Dark; or Candle and the Broken Heart Bow

[hopewrites]

A short story started falling from my fingertips this afternoon and this is what I have got down of it so far. (hidden inspiration aside, I'm very excited to write this story)

Concerns so far
1) Info-dumping. surprise surprise that I would be worried about that when we are talking about it over in GW.
a) I went with the "put it in dialog" trick rather then adding in the back mythology of the story.
b) I dont feel the village Elder's "well, you have to save the world. good luck" quite fits the bill of 'only tell 'em what they need to know' I feel I should add more in there, but dont want it to get info-dump-y
c) could you guess that Poem is the ferret, and Song is the falcon in time to not have confusion over it? or should I come out and say it sooner?
2) as ever, spelling and grammar.
a) specifically paragraphing. I have heard that new paragraphs are good when action changes, but should never be less then one sentence. And that I shouldn't include action and dialog in the same paragraph. I spent ten minuets just making and unmaking paragraphs and for this post up went with what made sense to me, sure I had broken all the paragraphing rules except the one that there should be some.
b) dialog grammar. I know there have been some threads up recently but I haven't checked them yet, if I broke rules that are stated there I'm sorry and I will head over there sometime after I move and get my life unpacked but right now "life. blarg." is kind of how I'm feeling (sorry that sounds so excuse-y to me, but I really do plan on getting over to view those threads whether I broke the rules or not)
c) homonyms. hey at least I'm getting to know my weak spots, that's a step in the right direction... (blarg more excuse-y-ness)
3) starting the story by just tossing you into the middle of the beginning. I know that I shouldn't start before the beginning, but what I don't know is; would you like a sentence or two before the village elder starts speaking to maybe set the stage? or did you like that i just dropped you in the deep end of the pool and expected you to start swimming.
4) anything else you would like to add.

Working Title; Candle and the Broken Heart Bow
​

“Candle, come here please.” the village Elder said from her door.

“Right away” Candle replied as she set down her practice bow.

Then waving farewell to her friends she ran across the village square to the Elders hut. Slipping off her braided sandals she quietly stepped inside.

Immediately the earthy fragrances of herbs filled her with calm excitement. Candle loved gathering and preserving the roots, leaves, and flowers the Elder asked her to gather and soon she would start learning how to use them to heal wounds and calm angry spirits. All the objects before her had become familiar looking over the past few years and she had even been shown how to use a few of them. The Village Elder had become her friend as well as her mentor since she had been apprenticed for trying to heal a falcon with a broken wing, right after finding the ferret who’s spray was not noxious, but numbing. These two animals had become her companions and the Elder had taken her in.

“How well do you remember the stories I tell the small children? About the Princess with the Broken Heart Bow?” the Elder’s clear blue eyes were fixed on the fire between them and Candle began to wonder if she was going to be taught how to make fire dance, the way the story tellers did to conjure pictures of their tales.

“Not well enough to recite it. Just that after braving great danger with the bow she had it broken up so that no one could ever use it for evil, and her animal friends took the pieces of her broken heart across the world and hid them.” Candle knew she had not told the story right, and wondered why the Elder had asked her, since she had never been very attentive to the old stories. They were after all, just tales told to children by the fireside.

“That is well enough for now. I need you to go and find the pieces of the bow and bring them back here. A great evil is on its way, and we will have need of your strength and that bow before you return.” The old woman’s eyes locked on Candle’s and there was pain and determination in their conviction that only this child could save the people she had spent her life protecting. “Take Song and Poem with you, you will have need of their gifts and guidance along the way. Your totem came to me early this morning and told me of the danger and your quest. He said he would meet you along the way and I was not to tell you more then that. He wants to reveal himself to you in his own way and time, and I am not one to argue with the spirits.” With these words of parting the elder handed Candle a carry sack of provisions and tools. “Follow Poems trail into the forest, let Song guide your heart, and watch out for bogs. I’m sorry I cant be more help than that, but you must go and go now. Your totem said I would have to hold the evil off until you return, so I must begin making preparations for its arrival.”

Candle gave the Elder a swift hug, shouldered the pack, and ran to get her bow before she could think about the impossibility of the task she had been given. She saw ferret tracks near where she had dropped her bow, recognized them as Poem’s, and followed them out into the forest.

 

[chrispenycate]

Working Title; Candle and the Broken Heart Bow
​

“Candle, come here please.

Comma not period (direct speech attribution)

” the village Elder said from her door.

“Right away

Comma

” Candle replied as she set down her practice bow.

Then

comma

waving farewell to her friends

Comma

she ran across the village square to the Elders

Elder's

hut. Slipping off her braided sandals she quietly stepped inside.

Immediately the earthy fragrances of herbs filled her with calm excitement. Candle loved gathering and preserving the roots, leaves, and flowers the Elder asked her to gather

Could you remove the repetition of the word "gather"? Would "collect" work for one of the two?

and soon she would start learning how to use them to heal wounds and calm angry spirits. All the objects before her had become familiar looking

not critical, but I'd hyphenate familiar-looking.

over the past few years and she had even been shown how to use a few of them. The Village Elder had become her friend as well as her mentor since she had been apprenticed for

With this "for" it's almost as if the apprenticeship were a reward, or a punishment.

trying to heal a falcon with a broken wing, right after finding the ferret who’s

whose

spray was not noxious, but numbing. These two animals had become her companions and the Elder had taken her in.

“How well do you remember the stories I tell the small children? About the Princess with the Broken Heart Bow?”

Upper case "T"

the Elder’s clear blue eyes were fixed on the fire between them and Candle began to wonder if she was going to be taught how to make fire dance, the way the story tellers did to conjure pictures of their tales.

“Not well enough to recite it. Just that

Comma

after braving great danger with the bow

Comma

she had it broken up so that no one could ever use it for evil, and her animal friends took the pieces of her broken heart across the world and hid them.” Candle knew she had not told the story right, and wondered why the Elder had asked her, since she had never been very attentive to the old stories. They were

Comma

after all, just tales told to children by the fireside.

“That is well enough for now. I need you to go and find the pieces of the bow and bring them back here. A great evil is on its way, and we will have need of your strength and that bow before you return

"Before you return"? They're not going to get either that early, unless they go with her.

.” The old woman’s eyes locked on Candle’s and there was pain and determination in their conviction that only this child could save the people she had spent her life protecting. “Take Song and Poem with you,

Comma splice (semicolon?)

you will have need of their gifts and guidance along the way. Your totem came to me early this morning and told me of the danger and your quest. He said he would meet you along the way and I was not to tell you more then

than

that. He wants to reveal himself to you in his own way and time, and I am not one to argue with the spirits.” With these words of parting the elder handed Candle a carry sack of provisions and tools. “Follow Poems

Poem's

trail into the forest, let Song guide your heart, and watch out for bogs. I’m sorry I cant be more help than that, but you must go and go now. Your totem said I would have to hold the evil off until you return, so I must begin making preparations for its arrival.”

Candle gave the Elder a swift hug, shouldered the pack, and ran to get her bow before she could think about the impossibility of the task she had been given. She saw ferret tracks near where she had dropped her bow, recognized them as Poem’s, and followed them out into the forest.

 

[Abernovo]

Wow, critiquing after Chrispy makes me feel redundant. I've tried not to repeat anything he flagged up, with the exception of a couple of word suggestions.
I used
RED for anything that seemed wrong to me
BLUE for suggestions
PINK for thoughts

All in all, I quite liked it. I don't have a problem with being dumped in the middle of a story, so long as it is explained along the way. Sometimes it can help to immerse you in the world. I'm certainly wondering what happens next, especially considering the names involved.

Working Title; Candle and the Broken Heart Bow
​

“Candle, come here please.” the village Elder (small consistency issue - I see you have it capitalised as Village Elder further down) said from her door.

“Right away” Candle replied as she set down her practice bow.

Then waving farewell to her friends she ran across the village square to the Elders hut. Slipping off her braided sandals she quietly stepped inside.

Immediately(,(I think)) the earthy fragrances of herbs filled her with calm excitement(what is 'calm' excitement? This may be me being slightly dim, so take this one with a pinch of salt). Candle loved gathering (collecting (as Chrispy says))and preserving the roots, leaves, and flowers the Elder asked her to gather and soon she would start learning how to use them to heal wounds and calm angry spirits. All the objects before her had become familiar looking(to her) over the past few years and she had even been shown how to use a few of them. The Village Elder had become her friend as well as her mentor since she had been apprenticed for(after?) trying to heal a falcon with a broken wing, right after finding the ferret who’s spray was not noxious, but numbing. These two animals had become her companions and the Elder had taken her in.

“How well do you remember the stories I tell the small children? About the Princess with the Broken Heart Bow?” the Elder’s clear blue eyes were fixed on the fire between them and Candle began to wonder if she was going to be taught how to make fire dance, the way the story tellers did to conjure pictures of their tales.

“Not well enough to recite it. Just that after braving great danger with the bow she had it broken up so that no one could ever use it for evil, and her animal friends took the pieces of her broken heart across the world and hid them.” (Personally, I would put a new paragraph in here as there is more than one sentence following speech, but that could just be me)Candle knew she had not told the story right, and wondered why the Elder had asked her, since she had never been very attentive to the old stories. They were after all, just tales told to children by the fireside.

“That is well enough for now. I need you to go and find the pieces of the bow and bring them back here. A great evil is on its way, and we will have need of your strength and that bow before you return.” The old woman’s eyes locked on Candle’s and there was pain and determination in their conviction that only this child could save the people she had spent her life protecting.(This sentence seems slightly heavy and it's a lot to convey with a look) “Take Song and Poem with you, you will have need of their gifts and guidance along the way. Your totem came to me early this morning and told me of the danger and your quest. He said he would meet you along the way and I was not to tell you more then that. He wants to reveal himself to you in his own way and time, and I am not one to argue with the spirits.” (Possibly a new paragraph)With these words of parting the elder handed Candle a carry sack of provisions and tools. “Follow Poems trail into the forest, let Song guide your heart, and watch out for bogs. I’m sorry I cant be more help than that, but you must go and go now. Your totem said I would have to hold the evil off until you return, so I must begin making preparations for its arrival.”

Candle gave the Elder a swift hug, shouldered the pack, and ran to get her bow before she could think about the impossibility of the task she had been given. She saw ferret tracks near where she had dropped her bow, recognized them as Poem’s, and followed them out into the forest.

 

[ctg]

“Candle, come here please.” the village Elder said from her door.

“Right away” Candle replied as she set down her practice bow.

Then waving farewell to her friends she ran across the village square to the Elders hut. Slipping off her braided sandals she quietly stepped inside.

The beginning feels very slow. And it's not because of the grammatical mistakes, but because how you have stretched the sentences. For example,

"Candle, come here please," the village Elder said from the door.

It is almost passive, but then there is the infodump issue, where you push 'the village elder' in the view, as if it's more important than naming the character or letting the narrator to hook the reader.

You continue with another tag,

"Right away," Candle said as she set down the practice bow.

The thing is that you don't always have to put the speech at the beginning of the sentence, but you can actually allow the narrator to continue.

For example you could have written.

"Candle," an Elder bellowed. "Get in here. Now!"

Candle whipped her head around and dropped the bow as she saw the old man waving his hand at front of the hut before he stepped back in.


In that way, you establish the POV straight away and remove some of the passivity from your sentences.

Immediately the earthy fragrances of herbs filled her with calm excitement. Candle loved gathering and preserving the roots, leaves, and flowers the Elder asked her to gather and soon she would start learning how to use them to heal wounds and calm angry spirits.

Using the name of Candle here creates confusion among the readers. The narrative is mostly full of description, and little bit of use of character senses. Instead you should use her in place of the name, and continue straight away the narrative after the first sentence from inside her head rather than allowing the distant narrator to take the POV.

All the objects before her had become familiar looking over the past few years and she had even been shown how to use a few of them. The Village Elder had become her friend as well as her mentor since she had been apprenticed for trying to heal a falcon with a broken wing, right after finding the ferret who’s spray was not noxious, but numbing. These two animals had become her companions and the Elder had taken her in.

“How well do you remember the stories I tell the small children? About the Princess with the Broken Heart Bow?” the Elder’s clear blue eyes were fixed on the fire between them and Candle began to wonder if she was going to be taught how to make fire dance, the way the story tellers did to conjure pictures of their tales.

“Not well enough to recite it."

The experienced writer would have dabbled differently the passages. They would have just mentioned what is needed for the story and allowed the reader to imagine rest.

You also mention the animals, but you refuse the use them after the initial exposition, where you could have used them as action pieces for the elder to use when he starts his bit of dialogue.

Another thing, you slightly sift the POV with "...Princess with the Broken Hearth Bow?" The elder's clear blue eyes were fixed ....

Be careful on how you frame the sentences as there's a big danger of sifting in the POV during the dialogue.

"Just that after braving great danger with the bow she had it broken up so that no one could ever use it for evil, and her animal friends took the pieces of her broken heart across the world and hid them.”

Candle knew she had not told the story right, and wondered why the Elder had asked her, since she had never been very attentive to the old stories. They were after all, just tales told to children by the fireside.

“That is well enough for now. I need you to go and find the pieces of the bow and bring them back here. A great evil is on its way, and we will have need of your strength and that bow before you return.”

The old woman’s eyes

Right. The elder is an old woman rather than old man.

I think that bit of information should have appeared before the whole dialogue started. So, when you do your rewrite, please consider on how you expose the information. And only drip in what is needed for the reader to create their own images. Rest is meaningless bit of information and appear as an amateurish filler.

Surely you don't want to appear that way, do you?

locked on Candle’s and there was pain and determination in their conviction that only this child could save the people she had spent her life protecting.

“Take Song and Poem with you," the old woman gestured her companions. "You will have need of their gifts and guidance along the way. Your totem came to me early this morning and told me of the danger and your quest.

Wow. Candle's totem speaks to others. Wow.

If Candle's totem (animal) knows all about the quest, then why it spoke to the elder and not the owner?

He said he would meet you along the way and I was not to tell you more then that. He wants to reveal himself to you in his own way and time, and I am not one to argue with the spirits.” With these words of parting the elder handed Candle a carry sack of provisions and tools. “Follow Poems trail into the forest, let Song guide your heart, and watch out for bogs. I’m sorry I cant be more help than that, but you must go and go now. Your totem said I would have to hold the evil off until you return, so I must begin making preparations for its arrival.”

Candle gave the Elder a swift hug, shouldered the pack, and ran to get her bow before she could think about the impossibility of the task she had been given. She saw ferret tracks near where she had dropped her bow, recognized them as Poem’s, and followed them out into the forest.

I still don't know which animal is which, can you tell us?


I wouldn't put this out on the market because I can see that it would come back as a decline without any sort of explanation of why. The reason is that you need practice your craft before your story starts to sound something that the people want to buy.

But,

don't think it's bad, cos it's not. It reads as if you're learning your art, and quite don't know what to do. So keep writing and rewriting the story until you feel that you cannot progress anymore. Then put in a drawer and sit on it till you have developed objective eyes to see what needs to be changed and why.

 

[hopewrites]

Could you remove the repetition of the word "gather"? Would "collect" work for one of the two?

yep, sorry last minuet tag on to the end of the sentence to add clarification and I didnt catch that I was over gathering. Second one is now collect. Thanks to you and Abernovo for catching that one.

With this "for" it's almost as if the apprenticeship were a reward, or a punishment.

Fantastic that is exactly the feeling I wanted the reader to have about it. Good to know I got it right. Will work on that feeling being more natural since more than one person pointed it up, there must be something unnatural about that kind of thinking that hasn't been addressed yet.

"Before you return"? They're not going to get either that early, unless they go with her.

yeah, it's an impetus that Candle is going to use both for and against herself later. I dont really like the way that paragraph plays out as it sits. I am deffantly going to mess with it in future.

Wow, critiquing after Chrispy makes me feel redundant. I've tried not to repeat anything he flagged up, with the exception of a couple of word suggestions.
I used
RED for anything that seemed wrong to me
BLUE for suggestions
PINK for thoughts

All in all, I quite liked it. I don't have a problem with being dumped in the middle of a story, so long as it is explained along the way. Sometimes it can help to immerse you in the world. I'm certainly wondering what happens next, especially considering the names involved.

I'm glad you picked up that because it's a symbol naming society that names will play a big roll in how characters develop as well as contain their own info-dumps on who they are. ie: Candle is a bright young woman (very young but I havent quite pegged how young) who people are going to look to in future (and probably have already started a bit now) for guidance and spiritual illumination.

(small consistency issue - I see you have it capitalized as Village Elder further down)

thank you, this one got uncapitalized. Elder is her name village is where she is. maybe I'll go back and make Village her first name later or something honestly I just havent picked yet. (fishing for advise) but agree that which ever it is I should be consistent.

(what is 'calm' excitement? This may be me being slightly dim, so take this one with a pinch of salt)

no I questioned that use as well, because it sounds contradictory and can only be grasped if you read it and go "what the h-... how can you be calm and excited at the same time?" and then think through your whole life for a moment when you were calm and collected, with your senses attuned to everything around you the way they are when excited... I wanted something concise, but see that I used too few of the wrong words or something. I'll puzzle it out.

(This sentence seems slightly heavy and it's a lot to convey with a look)

yeah, I wanted to push in some info-dumping about the Elder, since she isn't going to get much page time. and as Candle's mentor is pretty important to me. Probably one of those Author's Pets that will get cut for the sake of the story. Although Candle is pretty perceptive and since they are friends she might pick most of that up (aw see me making excuses to keep it there, *pets*)

(Personally, I would put a new paragraph in here as there is more than one sentence following speech, but that could just be me), (Possibly a new paragraph)

while I have yet to utilize this advice, and the following explanation on why I did it the way I did is not to be taken as a "i'm right" but more of a "well I was thinking this, can you help set my thinking straight so that I dont make this kind of mistake in the future" thing. In the first instance I kept it as one because those were the thoughts that went with the dialog. but if it reads better as two than one. I will gladly change it. in the second I didnt want to brake up that messy bit of dialog and info-dumping though I probably will before the end because it is messy. I would love to know why and when to make new paragraphs in dialog. because although I broke it up with stage directions, I heard it all in a rush

In that way, you establish the POV straight away and remove some of the passivity from your sentences.

ah my passive-aggressive nature is now pervading my writing? duly noted I will see what I can do about it.

Using the name of Candle here creates confusion among the readers. The narrative is mostly full of description, and little bit of use of character senses. Instead you should use her in place of the name, and continue straight away the narrative after the first sentence from inside her head rather than allowing the distant narrator to take the POV.

I dont understand what you mean here. It half sounds like you expect the story to be Candle 1st person. So I need to know if A) i'm reading your advice wrong. OR B) if and where I gave the impression that was what I was trying to do

You also mention the animals, but you refuse the use them after the initial exposition, where you could have used them as action pieces for the elder to use when he starts his bit of dialogue.

but they are not present. I thought that by only mentioning them in passing that would be clear and also let me introduce them properly. I"m thinking that some exposition before the opening dialog might have cleared that up. Since I'm going to be throwing Candle into action pretty quickly maybe some setting up before hand might help out.

Another thing, you slightly sift the POV with "...Princess with the Broken Hearth Bow?" The elder's clear blue eyes were fixed ....
Be careful on how you frame the sentences as there's a big danger of sifting in the POV during the dialogue.

I'm confused about your confusion here. Is it unclear that the Elder is speaking? or is my narrative perspective as 3rd person omniscient not convincing? or something else that went over my head (i am rather short )

Wow. Candle's totem speaks to others. Wow.

If Candle's totem (animal) knows all about the quest, then why it spoke to the elder and not the owner?

so in my exposition at the beginning I should definitely explain the spiritual rules of this reality. Because, yes totems can speak to whomever they wish. More often to the village Elder then "their owner" (i quot marked that because the totem owns the person not the other way around) it is only in special or dire need that a totem will physically manifest itself to its person so the knowledge that Candle is going to met her's is almost more exciting to her then finding out what it is. Something I was going to have her explain while she monologs to her companions in the following section.




thanks for the input so far, very good. Helps me ask more questions which is the best way to learn things.

oh I had one more that I think I lost, Chris said "whose" not "who's" is that because "whose" is the possessive who and "who's" is the contraction? I did change it to "whose" but just wanted to be sure I knew why I was changing it. I still dont follow about 1/2 the commas but at this point I'm blindly trusting because I'm focusing on learning other things at the moment. I promise to concentrate on commas after I can always tell "then" from "than" (my sloppy American dialect vocalizes them the same)

 

[ctg]

Immediately the earthy fragrances of herbs filled her with calm excitement. Candle loved gathering and preserving the roots, leaves, and flowers the Elder asked her to gather and soon she would start learning how to use them to heal wounds and calm angry spirits.

Using the name of Candle here creates confusion among the readers. The narrative is mostly full of description, and little bit of use of character senses. Instead you should use her in place of the name, and continue straight away the narrative after the first sentence from inside her head rather than allowing the distant narrator to take the POV.

I dont understand what you mean here. It half sounds like you expect the story to be Candle 1st person. So I need to know if A) i'm reading your advice wrong. OR B) if and where I gave the impression that was what I was trying to do.

No, I don't. I want you to focus on close 3rd person. It is close to 1st person but not as much as close 3rd gives you more freedom of doing it from the narrator perspective. And in this case, the narrator should be Candle and not the narrator that you're using.


You could have written,

Immediately, the earthy fragrances filled her mind with a calm excitement. They were flowing out from the leather pouches, hanging bundles of drying roots and flowers; even from the mortar sitting between old woman's crossed legs.

"Sit, young one," the elder commanded. She dipped her bony, painted fingers in the mix and threw a pinch in the fire as Candle sat on opposite side. "The spirits has spoken to me."

Candle crossed her legs and looked the Elder from under her brow.

"You're going to a journey."

Journey, Candle thought as musky and sweet smoke curled up in her nostrils pretty much in the same way as Elder's ferret curled up between her feet. "What journey?"

"Ah," the elder said. "The spirit has chosen you."

Candle couldn't believe her ears, or her eyes, or even feel of soft, silky fur under her fingers. Song was old woman's companion not hers, but yet, there she was, curled up, sleeping as if she had always belonged in the spot, between her feet.

You also mention the animals, but you refuse the use them after the initial exposition, where you could have used them as action pieces for the elder to use when he starts his bit of dialogue.

but they are not present. I thought that by only mentioning them in passing that would be clear and also let me introduce them properly. I"m thinking that some exposition before the opening dialog might have cleared that up. Since I'm going to be throwing Candle into action pretty quickly maybe some setting up before hand might help out.

Action doesn't equal combat. Action can be any action, and you shouldn't be shying away from using action and mixing it up with description as and when you progress through your story.

The fact is that you're using a shamanic type of character straight away, and then adding up familiar a little bit later counts in the reader mind that they should had been present sooner rather than later.

Another thing, you slightly sift the POV with "...Princess with the Broken Hearth Bow?" The elder's clear blue eyes were fixed ....

Be careful on how you frame the sentences as there's a big danger of sifting in the POV during the dialogue.

I'm confused about your confusion here. Is it unclear that the Elder is speaking? or is my narrative perspective as 3rd person omniscient not convincing? or something else that went over my head (i am rather short )

Why the hostile tone?

I am trying to advice you on something that you are in danger of doing. The prose isn't absolutely crystal clear and the omniscient narrator isn't strong enough to come across as omniscient (read for example terry pratchett's prose). Hence the confusion.

Wow. Candle's totem speaks to others. Wow.

If Candle's totem (animal) knows all about the quest, then why it spoke to the elder and not the owner?

so in my exposition at the beginning I should definitely explain the spiritual rules of this reality. Because, yes totems can speak to whomever they wish. More often to the village Elder then "their owner" (i quot marked that because the totem owns the person not the other way around) it is only in special or dire need that a totem will physically manifest itself to its person so the knowledge that Candle is going to met her's is almost more exciting to her then finding out what it is. Something I was going to have her explain while she monologs to her companions in the following section.

Yes. I think you should explain a bit more about the spirits and if you're going to use totems, you should also take in account that there many readers who're fixated to the fact that the totem animal only speaks to the owner. So if you're going to change things then please, think a clever way to illustrate the fact (exposition).

 

[hopewrites]

Why the hostile tone?

I am trying to advice you on something that you are in danger of doing. The prose isn't absolutely crystal clear and the omniscient narrator isn't strong enough to come across as omniscient (read for example terry pratchett's prose). Hence the confusion.

any hostility in my tone it is/was directed at myself for not understanding, not at you for advising.
again I feel that your well meaning and, as far as I can tell, good advice is going way over my head.
I'm reminded of the kitchen table where my well meaning uncle tried to explain calculus to me and I had to stop him and say "I'm in 1st grade, they just want me to add this up. Did I add it up right?" because ever since then I have wanted to learn what the hell he was babbling on about. it sounded so fascinating, and so far over my head.
for only having "been a writer" for 14 months I think i'm not horrible, I get that I'm not perfect and I have a lot to learn. that's why I'm here asking questions. without sounding too self depreciating can you please explain your answers as though I'm stupid, because I'm still not getting it.

 

[The Judge]

Concerns so far
1) Info-dumping.

To me, it was a problem. You tell us things we don't need to know, and do rather dump back-story on us eg "The Village Elder had become her friend as well as her mentor since..." We don't really need to know any of that at this stage. My advice would be to drop all of this. Similarly, the stuff about the herbs. Telling us the hut is full of yarrow or sweet-woodruff hanging to dry from the rafters gives us information which is helpful, by describing the scene. Telling us she had collected them is good. Telling us that she loves collecting them, that she will be taught uses etc is, to my mind, not helping.

a) I went with the "put it in dialog" trick rather then adding in the back mythology of the story.

An info-dump is an info-dump if in dialogue or narrative, I'm afraid, and in dialogue it can be even worse, simply because people just don't talk like that.

b) I dont feel the village Elder's "well, you have to save the world. good luck" quite fits the bill of 'only tell 'em what they need to know' I feel I should add more in there, but dont want it to get info-dump-y

We do need to know more, but not what you are telling us. We need to know what the threat is and where it's coming from, which is conspicuous by its absence!

c) could you guess that Poem is the ferret, and Song is the falcon in time to not have confusion over it? or should I come out and say it sooner?

I didn't, no, not when the names were first used.

2) as ever, spelling and grammar.
a) specifically paragraphing. I have heard that new paragraphs are good when action changes, but should never be less then one sentence. And that I shouldn't include action and dialog in the same paragraph. I spent ten minuets just making and unmaking paragraphs and for this post up went with what made sense to me, sure I had broken all the paragraphing rules except the one that there should be some.

Paragraph changes are good and I think you should use them more than you do. A paragraph of only a few words can work, so the old rule/advice of every para has to comprise at least 2 sentences is not one which you have to obey. You can have dialogue and action in the same para but you need to be careful with it. If in doubt, para break.

3) starting the story by just tossing you into the middle of the beginning. I know that I shouldn't start before the beginning, but what I don't know is; would you like a sentence or two before the village elder starts speaking to maybe set the stage? or did you like that i just dropped you in the deep end of the pool and expected you to start swimming.

You should toss us into the middle of things. I don't think you need any scene-setting, but if you did it should only be of the "Candle was about to loose the arrow when the door to the hut opened." variety.

I'm glad you picked up that because it's a symbol naming society that names will play a big roll in how characters develop as well as contain their own info-dumps on who they are.

For me, the names didn't work, and sounded a bit too twee.

Elder is her name village is where she is. maybe I'll go back and make Village her first name later or something honestly I just havent picked yet. (fishing for advise) but agree that which ever it is I should be consistent.

If Elder is her name, you can't use "the" in front of it as you do throughout, she is not "the Elder" just "Elder" -- by using "the" you are making it her title, not her name. To be frank, to me the idea of calling her -- as a first and last name -- Village Elder, makes it like a Monty Python sketch. Incidentally, I agree with ctg that we need to know she's a woman at once, so if you're not using a feminine name, get a "she" in there quickly.

no I questioned that use as well, because it sounds contradictory and can only be grasped if you read it and go "what the h-... how can you be calm and excited at the same time?" and then think through your whole life for a moment when you were calm and collected, with your senses attuned to everything around you the way they are when excited... I wanted something concise, but see that I used too few of the wrong words or something.

Calm and excited are polar opposites, so no, you're not going to get the right effect using them -- you need to find a different word.

yeah, I wanted to push in some info-dumping about the Elder, since she isn't going to get much page time. and as Candle's mentor is pretty important to me.

If she's important give her something to do, but that's no reason to info-dump.

while I have yet to utilize this advice...

In fact, I was happy at that para being all one, as the thoughts did follow immediately on from the dialogue, and to my mind it reads better as one.

I'm confused about your confusion here. Is it unclear that the Elder is speaking? or is my narrative perspective as 3rd person omniscient not convincing?

Although I didn't see it as a problem with the passage ctg picked, I agree with him as to the possible shift in POV when you go into the Elder's part -- this for me occurs at "there was pain and determination in their conviction that only this child could save the people she had spent her life protecting" Candle can't possibly know this, so where we've been firmly in her POV up to them, this is a jolt. If you wanted to be an omniscient narrator, then to be frank, you've an uphill task to make it convincing, and not appear just as head-hopping. I'd advise you to stick with Candle and drop the dipping into the Elder's thoughts.

Chris said "whose" not "who's" is that because "whose" is the possessive who and "who's" is the contraction?

Yes, that's right.


For me, hopes, the story is too rushed to be convincing. I don't want filler here, and I certainly don't want back story and info-dumps, but it's wham, bam, and not even a thank you at the end of it. To my mind, you need to slow it down a little, and make it more realistic. Most importantly, you have to be a bit more giving on the information front. "I need you to go and find the pieces of the bow." Just like that?! And Candle has no questions? She has to leave within one minute of being told of this terrible evil? If time is of the essence, why has the Elder allowed her to play outside all morning, instead of getting her in there to help pack the food and belongings? I think you could make much more of this, by calling her in just after the totem has been -- the Elder is worried, perhaps confused, in pain from the visit or whatever, and trying to explain what has happened and what Candle needs to do as they are working together packing the provisions etc.

In your blogs you show a wonderful way of expressing yourself, and a real insight into human nature and character -- I'd like the hopes that writes the blogs to be let loose with the story, so that she can give depth and emotion to what at present is written in a somewhat child-like, even childish, way. Simplicity isn't a problem, but superficial is. You have the capacity to make it very much deeper and more gripping.

Good luck with it, anyway.


PS ctg came in while I was writing this. While his draft of how you could have written the opening isn't exactly as I would have done it, and may not accord with how you see the scene and the characters, it is very much more involving, and I think a useful template on which to build. (Think I may be mixing metaphors here.)

EDIT: your response to ctg came after I'd drafted this. To be honest, hopes, I think for the moment it's easier for you to accept that at present omniscient narrator is not your friend, and learn about the intricacies of POV as you get a bit more experienced. And I'm not saying that just because I don't understand them myself!

 

[hopewrites]

Thank you The Judge. Now I get what CTG was trying to say. I will definitely be able to improve it now.

thanks again to everyone who replied, as I said at the beginning I am excited to write this story and now I have a better idea on how.
*happy-face run off to play*

 

[hopewrites]

A chill wind disturbed the morning air as Candle loosed her last arrow into the practice target. Almost she thought as she gathered the arrows scattered in and around the leather bound deer frame.

“Candle” the old woman called from just behind the entrance to her hut

Looking round she saw that her mentor was paler, and her normally calm features pulled tight in what Candle would have thought to be fear in anyone else. But Elders don’t get scared. She tried to reassure herself as she dropped her equipment and ran to the hut.

Taking a calming breath she slipped off her sandals respectfully and quietly moved behind the leather flap into the main area of the hut. Lavender brushed her blond hair, she was getting too tall to just walk under it anymore. Behind another screen of painted leather her mentor waited.

Moving into position across the fire from the head of her village she still felt awe that of all the children she had been chosen to be Elder’s acolyte. That one day she too would give up her name and become Elder, in this woman’s place. But not for many years yet. She again tried to shake the chill of that unusual wind.

“So. You feel it already?” Kind eyes avoided direct contact with the young girl before her.

“Was there something in the wind just now Elder?” Excitement that she had actually felt the passing of spirits, maybe even of totems went in direct conflict with the fear of what such a visitation meant.

“Yes, and something for you. When Hare crossed my path yesterday I thought it was me or one of the hunters who would be going on a journey. But it seems that the spirits want a child this time.”

With a heavy sigh Elder raised herself from the dirt floor and pointed at a traveling pack. “Poem, the ferret you found as a sign that you should be my acolite and sometimes comes back to aid your healing, crossed through the village last night. Follow his trail out into the forest. Song, the falcon whose wing you mended will be waiting for you. This is the message your totem sent to me on that wind, he says that he will met you along the way, and that I am not to reveal more than this.”

For the first time Candle saw tears in her beloved mentors eyes and all the fears that had been building up were replaced for the moment with love.

“There is more, isn’t there. Some grate evil threatens our home, doesn’t it. Don’t worry Elder, I will look after my friends and return swiftly from The Place of Spirits with what ever aid they chouse to send.”

Shock showed on the old woman’s face “Grate evil, yes. But it is not to The Place of Sprits that Poem and Song will guide you. Your totem will tell you of your quest”

Tenderly she hugged the growing child “I now know why your totem did not reveal himself to me when he placed you in my care.” Tear tracks made traces of sliver down Elder’s face “even now he hides your quest from me because he believes I would not let you go if I knew.”

Shaking off these ‘old woman’ feelings she became Elder again and with a smile of confidence set in stone on her face she offered the traditional parting “Spirits guide you” with more love and fervor then usually intoned.

Candle could say no more, tradition dictated that she take the pack and her simplest weapons and walk silently out of the village. Though she was heartened by the love she felt from the woman who had become more then just a mother, more then just a mentor, but a friend. With that she held her chin high, set her gaze steadily forward, and walked, perhaps for the last time, out of the only home she had ever known.

 

[hopewrites]

triple post, sorry. that's better right?
pacing more consistent with the right information in the right places?

 

[Hex]

Hiya hope,

I'm just zipping through but I wanted to say: I think this does work better than the first version. I thought the beginning, especially, was interesting and well-written. It drew me in.

I have a couple of general suggestions:

I'm afraid I find the names a bit of a distraction, and a little confusing -- when I read 'Lavender brushed her hair...' it took me a while to realise it wasn't a new character called 'Lavender'. I realise they're important to your world, so I'd suggest being super-careful to avoid confusions like Lavender when possible.

I think you change the way you describe Elder too often. I don't need to be told that she's Candle's mentor, I think you can show that through their relationship, and I found the way Candle thought of her as 'mentor' a little jarring (a little info-dumpy).

A couple more comments in the text.

A chill wind disturbed the morning air as Candle loosed her last arrow into the practice target. Almost she thought as she gathered the arrows scattered in and around the leather bound deer frame.

“Candle” the old woman called from just behind the entrance to her hut

Looking round she saw that her mentor was paler, and her normally calm features pulled tight in what Candle would have thought to be fear in anyone else. But Elders don’t get scared. She tried to reassure herself as she dropped her equipment and ran to the hut. [if Candle is trying to reassure herself as something separate from the thought, then this is fine, if a little choppy. If, though, she's thinking 'Elders don't get scared' as a way of reassuring herself then it should look like this: 'But Elders don't get scared,' she tried to reassure herself....]

Taking a calming breath she slipped off her sandals respectfully and quietly moved behind the leather flap into the main area of the hut. Lavender brushed her blond hair, she was getting too tall to just walk under it anymore. Behind another screen of painted leather her mentor waited.

Moving into position across the fire from the head of her village [I don't like the change here to 'head of her village' -- it's a bit confusing and I found it info-dumpy] she still felt awe that of all the children she had been chosen to be Elder’s acolyte. That one day she too would give up her name and become Elder, in this woman’s place. But not for many years yet. She again tried to shake the chill of that unusual wind.

“So. You feel it already?” Kind eyes avoided direct contact with the young girl before her. [I found 'kind' a bit much. I'm not sure why. Perhaps I'd find it easier if it was Elder not looking at Candle, rather than just her eyes.]

“Was there something in the wind just now Elder?” Excitement that she had actually felt the passing of spirits, maybe even of totems went in direct conflict with the fear of what such a visitation meant.

“Yes, and something for you. When Hare crossed my path yesterday I thought it was me or one of the hunters who would be going on a journey. But it seems that the spirits want a child this time.” [this bit was super -- just enough information to make it engaging and to make me feel I know --pretty much - what's happening, but not info-dumpy]

With a heavy sigh Elder raised herself from the dirt floor and pointed at a traveling pack. “Poem, the ferret you found as a sign that you should be my acolite and sometimes comes back to aid your healing, crossed through the village last night. [This is an info dump. Candle would know all this stuff so it makes no sense that Elder is saying it to her. I am very guilty of info dumping in dialogue, so I feel a bit hypocritical pointing it out here, but I'd suggest taking this out and if you need to tell us that Poem is a ferret right now then find another way to do it] Follow his trail out into the forest. Song, the falcon whose wing you mended will be waiting for you. [ditto this is info dumpy since Candle presumably knows exactly who Song is. If you need this information here and like this then you need someone else as well to whom Elder is explaining. I think there are better ways of getting the information across, though]. This is the message your totem sent to me on that wind, he says that he will met [meet]you along the way, and that I am not to reveal more than this.”

For the first time [comma] Candle saw tears in her beloved mentors [apostrophe after 'mentor' -- mentor's eyes. Though actually I wasn't a fan of beloved mentor' either -- you could show that they love each other in the way they say goodbye, for example -- or even with the end of the sentence, so it would go: For the first time, Candle saw tears in Elder's eyes, and all her fears were replaced for the moment with love.
sorry -- as I wrote I snipped 'that had been building up' because I think you've shown that's what's happening already, and it got in the way] eyes and all the fears that had been building up were replaced for the moment with love.

“There is more, isn’t there[?]. Some grate [great] evil threatens our home, doesn’t it. [wouldn't she want to know what? or how to guard against it?]Don’t worry[comma] Elder, I will look after my friends and return swiftly from The Place of Spirits with what ever [whatever?] aid they chouse [choose] to send.”

So, I think this starts very well. I've run out of time (sorry) but my main suggestion would be that you trust the reader more: there's a lot that you show very successfully through action that you then re-affirm in description (e.g. 'beloved mentor', although it feels a bit evil to be picking on that). For me, that comes over as a bit info dumpy and unnecessary.

I would much prefer to wonder for a while who Poem and Song are than have them introduced as they are above. I'm not sure it matters if we assume Poem is another child. Anyway, I'd suggest you think again about how to get the information across if it has to be here. You could even take it a step back, e.g. 'But is Song's wing strong enough to fly so far?' 'Yes. You healed her well.' (which is also, you know, info dumpy but not quite as badly, in my fairly ignorant opinion).

 

[Toby Frost]

I've got to admit I've found some of this thread confusing, so you're not alone there. What follows are general impressions and suggestions based on the second draft.

I like the arrows. With a character like this (especially given the hippy names, which I'm not sold on either) you need to establish that Candle can do stuff early on, and not just gather plants. I was going to suggest stripping bark with a khukri knife, but arrows work much the same. The sense of practicality helps a lot: people who live in isolated villages are probably quite tough.

Personally I don't have much a problem with minor POV shift, so long as it's neither major ("Head-hopping") or isn't clearly done (I can't see a problem where you see the thoughts of two characters in the same conversation, provided it's done clearly). But some really hate it so either control it carefully or, probably better, try to cut it entirely.

Shaking off these ‘old woman’ feelings she became Elder again and with a smile of confidence set in stone on her face she offered the traditional parting “Spirits guide you” with more love and fervor then usually intoned.

Here we are very definitely in the Elder's head, not Candle's. It's also rather wordy and dense, and would become more dramatic if split into several sentences. A simple "Spirits guide you," she said is much more punchy than the slightly removed description in the sentence above. This is an important moment and the starkness of a simple sentence should demonstrate it.

Some of the descriptions don't need to be there: "Normally calm" (isn't everyone?) and "respectfully" (the action suggests respect in itself, and the word respectfully detracts from the urgency and hence the tension). I think these are matters of confidence. As Hex says these are subtle infodumps and can be inferred from the actions or the circumstances. Likewise, you don't need to say anything specifically for the reader about their relationship or events that have happened in the past. I'd suggest looking at it from the point of view of someone who knows exactly who these people are before the book starts. How much of the dialogue and description is in there solely to get the reader up to speed?

Also, there's nothing wrong with a few uncertainties. If Dave says to Jim "Jim, buy us a beer" there's immediately a subconscious question: what is their relationship? Is Dave demanding, pleading, etc? We also immediately know that Dave, at least, knows who Jim is. And we want answers to that, which will make us continue to read. If Jim then says "Sure, mate," we then presume that they are friends (and probably don't need to know that they are uni buddies, brothers or workmates unless it becomes necessary to say). And when Jim replies "Hard up, are you?" another hook for the reader's interest appears.

I'm not sure I like the phrase "some great evil" - it just feels a bit fantasy-by-numbers. I agree with the Judge that this does seem rather like saying "Right, epic quest, now!", especially if this is a full-length novel. Also, if I was the Elder I'd go and sort it out instead of sending my young appwentice, but then Gandalf did send the hobbits to do his dirty work...

None of which is to say this is at all bad. It's a good framework and has plenty of potential. It does feel very short, as if it's a note for a scene three times as long, but there's plenty to build on.