Commas and lists and adjectives

[Hex]

I was wondering about adjectives divided by commas...

So: 'the cool, still, empty silence of the early morning' -- are the commas necessary?

(must admit I'm influenced in this question by Absalom, Absalom! and the wonderful opening sentence, especially: 'the long still hot weary dead September afternoon' -- wouldn't be the same with commas but is that something only Faulkner can get away with or are lesser mortals allowed to dabble in the comma-less list as well?)

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm not sure but his reads like a stream of conscious thought rather than a list if that makes sense? Also was it from 1st pov or in dialogue, if so I think okay, but yes, conventionally you should use the commas.

Says she who really has no idea

 

[The Judge]

Per my ODE:

A comma is used to separate adjectives having the same range of reference coming before a noun:
a cold, damp, badly heated room
a ruthless, manipulative person

The comma is omitted when the adjectives have a different range of reference (eg size and colour) or when the last adjective has a closer relation to the noun:
his baggy green jacket
a distinguished foreign politician
a dear little baby

So, yes, that example of yours should have commas. I'd sometimes also put a comma immediately before the noun if the feel of the sentence requires it.

 

[Hex]

Thanks

I was wondering how critical the commas were in a list like that.

I wondered, too, what difference it makes when you read the list -- does the removal of the commas have any effect on the way the list feels? Or does it just read as wrong?

I don't think the removal of commas necessarily makes lists ambiguous -- although the inclusion of 'still' in the examples above does.

@springs -- it's not dialogue and it's not really stream of consciousness. It's told third person.

The whole of that wonderful first sentence:

"From a little after two o'clock until almost sundown of the long still hot weary dead September afternoon they sat in what Miss Coldfield still called the office because her father had called it that – a dim hot airless room with the blinds all closed and fastened for forty-three summers because when she was a girl someone had believed that sight and moving air carried heat and that dark was always cooler, and which (as the sun shone fuller and fuller on that side of the house) became latticed with yellow slashes full of dust motes which Quentin thought of as being flecks of the dead old dried paint itself blown inward from the scaling blinds as wind might have blown them."

(source: William Faulkner Absalom, Absalom! (1936))

EDITED to add source

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Reads a bit like a stream of conscious to me (and I itched to put the commas in, I'm going to have to become less stick in the muddish about these sorts of things, become modern.) I knew I should have started this writing lark when I was a slip of a girl.....

 

[Warren_Paul]

The whole of that wonderful first sentence:

"From a little after two o'clock until almost sundown of the long still hot weary dead September afternoon they sat in what Miss Coldfield still called the office because her father had called it that – a dim hot airless room with the blinds all closed and fastened for forty-three summers because when she was a girl someone had believed that sight and moving air carried heat and that dark was always cooler, and which (as the sun shone fuller and fuller on that side of the house) became latticed with yellow slashes full of dust motes which Quentin thought of as being flecks of the dead old dried paint itself blown inward from the scaling blinds as wind might have blown them."

I'm not an expert on the commas, but I think that sentence might be a bit too long. I've been trying to cut back length of sentences in my writing because I'm the same, stringing them together with commas.

I had a little play:

"From a little after two o'clock, until almost sundown of the long, hot September afternoon. They sat in what Miss Coldfield still called the office, because her father had called it that. A dim hot airless room with the blinds all closed and fastened for forty-three summers because, when she was a girl, someone had believed that sight and moving air carried heat, and that dark was always cooler. As the sun shone fuller and fuller on that side of the house, it would became latticed with yellow slashes, full of dust motes. Quentin had thought of them as being flecks of the dead, old dried paint itself, blown inward from the scaling blinds, as wind might have blown them."


I know this is not the critique section but I couldn't help myself

Apologies in advance if that destroyed part of the meaning to the sentence/s. It was really hard to understand quite what was being said. You will also notice I took most of your list out, I really felt it wasn't needed.

If it's long and hot, then weary is a granted, of course it's going to be weary. If it's hot, then its likely also going to be still, because wind blows away the heat - hopefully.

 

[Hex]

I thought stream of consciousness tended to be first person -- but I wouldn't like to be quoted on that (or to have to reveal my sources).

Um -- just to be absolutely clear -- that wasn't my paragraph, it was William Faulkner's first sentence in his book Absalom, Absalom!. It was published in 1936.

I'm flattered you thought it was me, though

 

[Warren_Paul]

I thought stream of consciousness tended to be first person -- but I wouldn't like to be quoted on that (or to have to reveal my sources).

Um -- just to be absolutely clear -- that wasn't my paragraph, it was William Faulkner's first sentence in his book Absalom, Absalom!. It was published in 1936.

I'm flattered you thought it was me, though

oh, I see...

So I just pulled apart a published book's one sentence paragraph? Yikes!

EDIT: Oh, I see. 1936. that explains a lot. How did they even understand what they were reading, if that was what it was like back then?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I agree, technically it does, but that is pretty close to his/hers thoughts, I'm sure there's some term for it. Anyway, I liked it, thought it was really impressive, Hex.

What'ya mean you didn't write it? Hmph.

 

[The Judge]

I know this is not the critique section but I couldn't help myself

I don't think Faulkner will mind...

One thing, Warren you've made an error in the first sentence of your version:

"From a little after two o'clock, until almost sundown of the long, hot September afternoon, they sat in what Miss Coldfield still called the office, because her father had called it that.

Since it starts "From" you can't have a full stop after "afternoon" otherwise you have an incompete sentence. (I've put a comma but nothing would do as well.)

Personally I'd have put the commas in the paragraph, and probably a full stop somewhere, too.


EDIT: beaten to the post again...

 

[Warren_Paul]

Very true The Judge. It was fun though