Cherryh's Finity's End, Fletcher/Francesca Neihart

J-Sun

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This is driving me batty: does anyone know if Cherryh's dealt with Fletcher/Francesca Neihart before and, if so, which book? I'm currently (finally) reading Finity's End and their backstory seems really familiar but I can't place it. Can't find it in my books or get any sensible search results online (though trying real hard to avoid spoilers may not be helping). I did come across a reference about "resuming" a story but it didn't say what it was resumed from. If not them, is Cherryh repeating herself - have another couple of characters got similar backstories?
 
(This post was for the February reading thread but is really too long for that. I'll stick it here. If more people have read this book and post, it'll change from a question thread to a general discussion thread (though I'd still be interested in an answer to the original question).)

Finished C.J. Cherryh's Finity's End last night. Otherwise known as "Dude, Where's My Stick?" I've rarely if ever read a book that was such a mixture of bad and good and, if it hadn't been both Cherryh and Union/Alliance, I never would have made it past the beginning. This would be a YA book complete with a 17 year old implausibly virginal protagonist and even younger co-star except that it's 564 pages long and I've never heard of a YA book like that. The first 50 pages spent planetside/stationside were stupefyingly boring; the next 50 spent fighting about whether or not to go shipside were very boring; the next 50 pages spent starting to adjust to ship life were boring. 150 pages in, when classic SF would be in the final 40-50 pages of climactic action, and we've basically done nothing but tell the reader 67 times that Fletcher Neihart has had a rough life. Boy meets planet/girl; boy loses planet/girl. The next 100 pages aren't much better. Aside from that repetition, part of how we jack our book up to 564 pages involves things like a paragraph that's a solid page long which consists of variations on "there were pickles and syrups and stuffed pasta, string pasta, puff breads and flat breads and meals and pro-paste pepper rolls with hot sauce, and there were sausage rollups" repeated for the page (p.185-6). And the final sequence, which runs from 482-564 ends in a silly, melodramatic fashion in a way that completely fails to balance the big and little pictures or plausibly unite them, IMO. I mean, it technically may but truth may also be stranger than fiction. It feels melodramatic, silly, and wrong.

So I find it completely bizarre that the middle chunk, from about 243-482, was pretty damned good. However implausible some aspects of Fletcher Neihart are and however implausible some of his and the other characters' changes are, the overall impression is of an excellent character, nearly as well done in the case of the nominally lovable Dennis the Space-Menace (aka Jeremy, the 12 year old sort of kid brother-type) who, honestly, seems like a demon or albatross round Fletcher's neck but, if you sort of look past that, is interesting in his own right. And not bad depictions of James Robert Neihart, Sr. and JR (James Robert, Jr.), either. And the conflict between all these people and, especially, of Fletcher and Chad/Connor/Sue is initially very well done from a psychological level, even if it seems bizarre to me that even a Merchanter ship of "family" would be so undisciplined as to allow multiple fights and chronic disrespect of senior officers.

Anyway - not a total loss but easily my least favorite Merchanter book and well down on the list of Cherryh books in general. It just makes me groan in dismay when I read reviews blurbs on this book saying "SF at its very best" from Publisher's Weekly and even "Cherryh's best novel since Cyteen" from Locus. Because it's long and boring and is a "novel of character"? I will say in PW's defense that, if you were unfamiliar with the Merchanter milieu, it might be more impressive because it might seem all shiny and new but, if you are familiar, it breaks little or no new ground and spends a lot of time describing things you already know. Yet it can't be recommended as an entry point, either, because it's just not that good and also, to me, seems to presuppose a lot of familiarity. Neither fish nor fowl there.

Stray point 1: Cherryh's pseudo-1st person narrative, where the narrator speaks the characters presumed thoughts - "Damn right he was mad. The hell he was going to take that from anyone." (example; not quote) - is annoying in this book, perhaps because the narrator so rarely shuts up to describe action or allow characters to have dialog. She uses it frequently and I don't know it's ever the best idea but it usually works better than here.

Stray point 2: if you're looking for an extreme antidote to post-human post-Singularity fiction, this could be the ticket. Aspects of this 1997 novel are largely unchanged from 1981's Downbelow Station. Kids working in kitchens and laundries and dumping out containers to look for bombs rather than even being able to scan them with a gizmo. Despite being on spaceships and space stations and occasionally talking to aliens, there's minimal SF content here. IOW, a kid could have been taken from a foster home where he'd hung out near an Indian reservation (and been given a stick) and taken on a cruise ship with his rich family, stopping in various ports while they worked on business deals and it'd basically be the same story. I usually like the anti-Singularity stuff but this is a bit overkill.

Basically, for some form of Cherryh/Merchanter completist, well, this is one of those, so you need it, but I don't recommend it otherwise.
 
564 pages? Which edition's that, J-Sun? My NEL paperback copy runs nearly 100 pages shorter, at 470 pages...
 
Mine's an 8/98 Aspect paperback (Warner subdivision) and the font is fairly small. Your NEL must be microscopic. :) Or maybe it's partly a margin issue - the Aspect doesn't have overly generous margins, but they might have been able to fit in another line at the bottom margin.
 
The mass market paperback is 576 pages. The hardcover (the one I read) is 384 pages. Funny, I never thought of it as being all that long.
 
What's a good book to start reading Cherryh?

Well, it depends partly on what you prefer. One way to start would be at the beginning with one of her first two books: Gate of Ivrel starts the excellent Morgaine series and is a science fantasy with emphasis on the fantasy feel and Brothers of Earth is SF but unfortunately not her best. (If you want pure fantasy, she's written a lot but I've only read her first, in the Ealdwood duo and they're okay, but not great and possibly not her best. Maybe someone else can help there.)

Her most central work is probably her Merchanter books and that all started with the Hugo-winning Downbelow Station but it begins in internal chronology with the excellent Heavy Time/Hellburner duo (collected in the Devil to the Belt omnibus) and that might be an easier start.

One of her more popular, action-filled, colorful series is the Chanur books starting with Pride of Chanur.

If you want one of her few purely independent works rather than a series, I was really impressed with Wave Without a Shore.

I, personally, love the Faded Sun books beginning with Kesrith, but it's really more like a single huge novel (and I obviously don't ordinarily love huge novels) collected in the The Faded Sun Trilogy omnibus.

So, like I say, the specific one might depend on your interests but that handful hopefully represents some good starts.
 
I'd say go with the Chanur novels (no spoilers in link), starring the peerless Pyanfar Chanur and her crew - but then again, I would, wouldn't I...:)
 
Cool. Thanks. I want more of the "spacy" side of Cherryh. Just ordered The Chanur Saga and Devil to the Belt, and also took a flyer on Cyteen.

Looking forward to reading them.
 
Cool. Thanks. I want more of the "spacy" side of Cherryh. Just ordered The Chanur Saga and Devil to the Belt, and also took a flyer on Cyteen.

Looking forward to reading them.

Warning: I love Cherryh, and I think she's about what SF is supposed to be about.

Now, when you read her you have got to be willing to do some work. Her novels are all dense and meaty things. I think she does aliens better than anyone ever has. The Chanur Saga will lift that up for you very well. I am not as fond of the Merchanter Universe as I am of the Foreigner Universe. But her awards say I'm wrong.

A Pox on their house!:D

Happy Reading!!!
 
Cool. Thanks. I want more of the "spacy" side of Cherryh. Just ordered The Chanur Saga and Devil to the Belt, and also took a flyer on Cyteen.

You'll find that Cyteen and Chanur are very different tales. Almost like from two different authors. My own preference is for The Faded Sun books. And they can be had under one cover quite easily. See: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0886778697/?tag=brite-21

But of the two you have on order, I'd start with the Chanur. A little more accessible. Have fun. For me, I've read more of Cherryh than any other SF & F author. It's all worth a try.
 
Now, when you read her you have got to be willing to do some work. Her novels are all dense and meaty things. I think she does aliens better than anyone ever has. The Chanur Saga will lift that up for you very well.

More or less agreed with both and a half of those points. Some people have no trouble with her density and neither did I once I "got it" but it took me two tries with Downbelow before I did. Some people have no problem with it, though. And I don't know she's the best at aliens ever but she's at least in the conversation and, yep, the Chanur books, specifically, are great at that. Not just one great alien but a handful of brilliant creations (and a couple-three more who are so alien we can barely interact with them and who are extremely evocative). So that's another criteria for the new reader - if you're looking for aliens, there's Chanur as a great example and, if not, then there's Merchanter for a mostly (except hisa) human set. (Also to note, Chanur is a pretty tight series while Merchanter books are basically set close together in a common timeline and have recurring characters but are distinct stories - though they contribute to a larger future-historical story).

You'll find that Cyteen and Chanur are very different tales. Almost like from two different authors.

Agreed - and Cyteen is one of a few that didn't work well for me (not bad, just not real positive), despite awards and rave reviews from many. But, probably like Finity's End, it may just be me.
 
This is driving me batty: does anyone know if Cherryh's dealt with Fletcher/Francesca Neihart before and, if so, which book? I'm currently (finally) reading Finity's End and their backstory seems really familiar but I can't place it. Can't find it in my books or get any sensible search results online (though trying real hard to avoid spoilers may not be helping). I did come across a reference about "resuming" a story but it didn't say what it was resumed from. If not them, is Cherryh repeating herself - have another couple of characters got similar backstories?

I had exactly the same feeling. I know I already read Fletcher's story and Francesca's death somewhere, but cannot remember where. Could you find out?

I thought in was in Dowbelow Station, but I just finished reading it again and found nothing in it. Unless there are several editions of this book?
 
I had exactly the same feeling. I know I already read Fletcher's story and Francesca's death somewhere, but cannot remember where. Could you find out?

I thought in was in Dowbelow Station, but I just finished reading it again and found nothing in it. Unless there are several editions of this book?

It's been years? decades?! since I read Downbelow Station and I can't help with any of this. But, Cherryth has/did have a well monitored author's website. More than a decade ago (sigh, am I really this old?!) I had a not inconsiderable email conversation with her about the first of her Foreigner books. She was very helpful and obviously insightful. I might just go right to her or at least her website and pose your question.
 
I had exactly the same feeling. I know I already read Fletcher's story and Francesca's death somewhere, but cannot remember where. Could you find out?

I thought in was in Dowbelow Station, but I just finished reading it again and found nothing in it. Unless there are several editions of this book?

No, I never did find out. I felt like it was coming back to me and may have been something in Heavy Time/Hellburner but I still don't really know. As far as editions of Downbelow Station, it's got a trillion printings but just the one version, as far as I know.

It's been years? decades?! since I read Downbelow Station and I can't help with any of this. But, Cherryth has/did have a well monitored author's website. More than a decade ago (sigh, am I really this old?!) I had a not inconsiderable email conversation with her about the first of her Foreigner books. She was very helpful and obviously insightful. I might just go right to her or at least her website and pose your question.

Yeah, I may do that. Or you could, since you've already broken the ice. ;) (Seriously, I'd be kind of embarrassed to ask her if she then came across me slagging the book I'm asking a question about here. I mean, nobody can make everybody happy all the time and I love most of her books and have something like 33 of them - 29 out of 33 is pretty good, y'know? But, yeah, I guess that'd be the thing to do if I can't find the answer otherwise.)
 
I suspect she would rather talk to you and help you understand than to have you "slag" the book without her insights.

She seemed a very willing to chat. I bet an intelligent question would draw her out again.
 
Well, I bit the bullet and emailed her - I'm kind of puzzled by the response but hate to take more of her time asking for a clarification. I don't think there's anything wrong with quoting a couple of lines from a longer email. I wrote that I "felt certain that Fletcher and Francesca Neihart's backstory had been related in another novel or they might have even appeared outright. Is this my imagination or can you tell me where else they're mentioned?" and she replied, "No, the Neiharts are mentioned in Rimrunners and in Downbelow Station, I believe, but I don't recall any others." Except for the "No", I suppose it could mean these Neiharts do appear in those two books, but I take this to mean that the family name occurs but not those two specific characters or at least not their actual backstory, so that it is my (and FlorianNantes' :)) imagination.

(By the way and for the record, I miscounted my Cherryh books in my last post - it's actually about 35.)
 
Rimrunners is an excellent book and one of my favourites in the series. I love the dark edgy paranoia and oppressive darkness within the plot. Hits all the marks as far as I'm concerned. May not be her best, but well worth reading for a different take on being press ganged into crewing for what you see as the enemy.
 
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