Great ASOIAF re-read

Katrina Stark

The North Remembers
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Aug 12, 2011
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I discovered the series last year, and was so fascinated by the whole thing that I read all the available books in less than 10 days, and gobbled ADWD as soon as it came out as well.

Now that the initial rush has passed, I've been thinking about going back and re-reading the whole series (and not just my favourite bits) in order to get a calmer, more rational perspective on the books - and, I admit, hunt for clues that I might have missed in the rush and middle of the night urgency to finish.

I was wondering if someone else might be interested in the endeavour - we could give each book a month or two, and discuss them as we progress in the series.

Let me know what you think, and if you guys are interested...
 
Kat, I need a reread like I need a hole in my head... err, I mean I'm keeping an open mind to this project. Actually, I do need a reread for ACOK with the second season rapidly approaching... nor would a third read of ADWD hurt me. Okay, it's decided then... I'm starting my reread today, but I'll be on a faster track than you. I'll be happy to discuss things at your pace.
 
Lol - obviously you've done this before. I'll be happy for your input - obviously people can make comments who aren't reading at the same time as me. I think these books deserve a little more care and attention than I gave them when I started reading, and I thought it would be nice to share experiences.

Anyway - we'll see how fast we move along. I'm pretty busy right now with exams coming soon, so I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to devote to reading. But you raise an interesting point - I should probably try to be reading ACOK when the series start on tv... I wonder if I can read that much that fast...

*goes searching for her books*
 
I wonder if I can read that much that fast...


Shouldnt be a problem given you did the original read of the first 4 in 10 days :eek:
I like a more leisurely pace myself, savouring as I go. Plus I'm old with kids and a job and blah blah blah and keep falling asleep when I finally get to read :rolleyes:
 
Lol, true - but I was on holiday then. Did nothing but read during that time, and I am convinced there are a number of details I missed the first time around. I was too busy trying to find out what would happen next to give them the time they deserve. I'll go slower this time around.

I've started on AGOF and already see little clues in the text I hadn't realized were of any import when I read at first. The foreshadowing in this series is amazing! Like, when Jon is saying goodbye to Arya and says "Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle. Who knows?" - I thought it was just comforting words on his part, when I read the first time. Now? So many possibilities!
 
Katrina, absolutely on the reread! I have actually lost track of how many times I have done a complete reread. I always go back to these when I have the slightest trouble finding a new book! I am currently on AFFC.

You will certainly see much you missed. I have many times felt like a dumb***, "How did I not see that!!"

I for one will happily discuss whatever you find you want to go over, I have definitely reached the obsession phase!
 
I'll participate, although I'm currently re-reading aDWD. i have read the rest of the books 4 times :)
 
Only four, Imp? The way you dominate the trivia thread, I'd swear you're GRRM's editor.

Kat, I've actually not found my copy of AGOT yet. I have ACOK, ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD hardbacks by my bed, but I cannot find my AGOT paperback... so, on Wednesday, I started Jaqueline Carey's Banewreaker... oops. Even my preschool teacher remarked "works poorly with others."
 
Only four, Imp? The way you dominate the trivia thread, I'd swear you're GRRM's editor.

Kat, I've actually not found my copy of AGOT yet. I have ACOK, ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD hardbacks by my bed, but I cannot find my AGOT paperback... so, on Wednesday, I started Jaqueline Carey's Banewreaker... oops. Even my preschool teacher remarked "works poorly with others."

GRRM's editoris cuter than I am.

Listening to the audiobooks creates and auditory memory for me that reading doesn't do. I can often "hear" Roy saying stuff (in relation to questions, not randomly).
 
GRRM's editoris cuter than I am.

Listening to the audiobooks creates and auditory memory for me that reading doesn't do. I can often "hear" Roy saying stuff (in relation to questions, not randomly).
Numerous re-reads also give you a much better sense of where to look if you need to do "research. this is always a last resort for me, but it still makes me look smarter than i am :)
 
I've only read them through once so I might be up for this, don't know how quickly I would get through them as I really should be reading other things....
 
That's okay - it's meant to be a leisurely thing. I'm reading AGOT right now, but I'm busy with RL, so don't have that much time either. I just thought we might post our thought and impressions as we go along.
 
Count me in- I started the re-read as soon as I finished ADWD in January. I'm on ACOK now. But like the other poster, my reading time is when I finally get to bed and so it's slow going. You AGOT readers will catch up quick I think!
 
Instead of another "reread" thread... I'm going with this one.

I have been thinking about some aspects of the story recently and I'm starting a reread. Will I finish? Dunno. But I am not planning on reading to enjoy the story... I want to find details I've missed. I want to make connections I've not made before. I want to remember particulars that I've forgotten. I want to see if I can learn the goal of the Others. I want to figure out how many children Aerys II, Tywin, Rhaegar, and Eddard each fathered. I want to find answers to the following mysteries, secrets, and missing people... Howland, Gerion, Ashara, Loras, Marwyn, Darkstar, Lemore, Faegon, Lyanna, Rhaegar, Dany's dreams, Bran's dreams, Quentyn's death, Varys, Middlefinger, Benjen, Coldhands, Shadrick, Euron, glass candles, purple eyes, skinchangers, red hair, TPTWP, AAR, TSWMTW, the dragon has three heads, promise me Ned, the three eyed crow, Craster and his wives, Timmett, the truth of Robert Arryn's parentage and his health, the Doom of Valyria, Jojen, Lynesse, the Faceless Men, the Tears of Lys, and the Strangler.

I'll observe and connect and predict... in my own disjointed way. I don't know how to put aside my previous conceptions and assumptions. Some of those might be valid, but some must also be incorrect. I'll try to impartially observe... but how can I wait until finishing ADWD to attempt to make any connections?

Also this is a RE-read... there will be spoilers if you have not read all the books.

Let me say up front that the cover art, the painting of a young man in black riding a black horse is what originally caught my eye in that bookstore in 2000. There's also a black raven, a white wolf, a castle, hills, woods, and mountains in the distance. And everything is covered in snow. I confess I do judge a book by it's cover. Since this is a reread, I suppose the man to be Jon Snow.

A Game of Thrones, Prologue
I know the story. Three rangers. Dead wildlings. Others arrive. Waymar is killed. Waymar kills Will. Gared flees.

I noted the opening discussion of dead wildlings. "Do the dead frighten you?" "We have no business with the dead." "Dead men sing no songs." "There are things to be learned even from the dead." And as the prologue progresses, even though this is supposed to be a fantasy story, it becomes clear this chapter is horror. So the dead are supposed to frighten us. People should not mess around with the dead.

And the dead do not sing... meaning they do not express joy nor sorrow. Or with the title of the series A Song of Ice and Fire, does this mean the dead do not fit into this particular song?

The time of day is twilight.

Gared was forty years in the NW. If he swore his oath at sixteen, he's fifty-six.

Will was four years on the Wall. A veteran of a hundred rangings. That's twenty-five per year or one every two weeks.

Gared and Will sense something different. A cold north wind. Trees rustling... almost alive. They feel they're being watched.

Ser Waymar Royce. Eighteen years old. House Royce has too many heirs. Which is the only indication we have of why Waymar took the black. ...his vocation...

Will joined after being caught by the Mallisters for poaching. We are not told why Gared joined the NW.

Gared gives the first hint that winters are not yearly. Two winters ago... "when I was half a boy."

Then Gared gives a speech on freezing to death. "Nothing burns like the cold." But he's talking about dying... and that discussion already came.

The stars began to come out. A half moon rose. Not just... the moon, but a half moon. Does GRRM do this often? If so, it may be the way to identify the chronology of events.

A wolf howled.

A cold wind whispered.


Gared and Will feel something is wrong.

Will thinks Gared comes close to mutiny. Foreshadowing plotted mutiny at the Fist, mutiny at Craster's, and at Castle Black.

Moonlight shone down...

The wind was moving. It cut right through him...


Will is afraid before the Other shows up.

An owl hoots.

Suddenly, it's freezing cold.

The Other's armor appears like moonlight on water.

The wind had stopped. It was very cold.

Will thinks moonlight can be tricky.

Waymar holds his sword in two hands. Earlier it is called a longsword. It seems that this sword may be a ******* sword.

The Other's sword is alive with moonlight...

The Other stops to study Waymar's sword.

Five more Others appear.

The swords clash and Will hears a high thin sound at the edge of hearing, like an animal screaming in pain.

The Other's language/voice sounds like the cracking of ice on a winter lake.

First mention of Robert, though we don't know who he is yet.

On the next exchange, Waymar's sword shatters. Were the words a spell? Waymar's sword was covered with frost, was it just so cold it broke?

All five Others join to kill Waymar.

First mention of the Old Bear and Maester Aemon.

Waymar's left eye was ruined, but the right was blue. The Other's eyes were blue as well. Waymar does not move quickly, but terror prevents Will from fleeing. Waymar's touch was icy cold. I wonder if Waymar will show up at the Fist?

So the answer to the very first question, "Do the dead frighten you?" is YES! Will was terrified. Gared was correct, they did not have any business with the dead. And the comment "Dead men sing no songs" rings true that Waymar nor Will can tell of what they saw.

This could be a short story in a horror anthology. Inexperience versus experience. Loss of innocence. Trusting instincts versus following orders. Human versus inhuman. Wild forested north in winter versus civilization.

The book is A Game of Thrones, yet the prologue details nothing about the throne, the kingdom, the king, etc. I think in Jon's last chapter of AGOT, the Old Bear tells him it does not matter who sits the throne when the Others are attacking. So, the very title is shown to be a red herring in the freaking prologue?!?!

There is no mention of Starks, but I think the parallels to Jon Snow are many. Waymar and Jon are raised in noble houses. Both are extra mouths. Both know weapons, armor, horses. Both seem to choose the NW as a vocation, not as a last resort. Both are young. Both have a bejeweled longsword which they sometimes use two handed. Both go ranging north of the Wall after wildlings. Both want glory on their first ranging. Both rise to command.

But Jon has not yet fought an Other. Jon has a direwolf, Waymar hears a wolf far away. Waymar has only two men and splits his forces.... Jon has the entire NW... and splits his forces. Jon has a Valyrian Steel sword. He wonders if it could kill Others. It is interesting that the Other stopped to look at Waymar's blade... as if to study it.

There are a number of references to the moon and moonlight. I did not expect this. Mayhaps it is just to add spookiness to the forest and the horror aspect...

Also, how did the wildlings die? Eight men and women described as fallen dead. But there's no blood. Gared says they froze, but Waymar points out they had shelter, a fire pit, means to build a fire, and they were warmly clothed. One woman was up a tree as a lookout. There were some weapons lying about... specifically an axe right next to a man. So how did they die? Poison? Presumably they just returned from a successful raid, so why kill themselves? Did they realize they were surrounded by Others and swallow poison? Probably not. All the wildlings know to burn the dead. Or were they flash frozen by the Others and left to be found by the rangers? The Others did not freeze Waymar and Will. They hacked Waymar.

So were the Wildlings really dead? Will got close enough to observe without being seen. But he did not actually touch them. How close did he get? Two hundred feet? One hundred feet? Fifty feet? At fifty feet I could tell if a person was breathing, I think... but not at a hundred feet. Will says he watched them for a while and none of them moved at all. Were they hypnotized? Were they under some supernatural spell?
 
A Game of Thrones, Bran I
Let me first say that after I finished, I thought that GRRM purposefully ends each chapter with a mini cliffhanger. Now we all know this, and it makes for a page turning fun read. But it struck me that it may be an intentional device to prevent readers from stopping and contemplating the details of what they've just read. I am trying to stop and think over each chapter, but the story calls to me to race ahead with reading. GRRM doesn't need to bait and switch if he induces us to rush headlong through the story.

Again GRRM tells the story from a third person perspective, commonly called a POV. We get our first introductions of Bran, Eddard, Robb, Jon, Jory, Theon, Hullen, and Harwin. Rickon, Old Nan, King Robert, and Mance Rayder are mentioned by name. The Children of the Forest are first mentioned.

Bran's feelings are... Eddard is a loving and patient father while being a just and concerned lord. Robb is fun, passionate and strong. Jon is observant and quick of mind and body. Jory, Hullen, and Harwin are superstitious.

We are supposed to identify the deserter as Gared from the prologue. Two ears and a finger missing from frostbite, just like he claimed to Waymar. All of his comments go over Bran's head and so are not passed along to us. Gared is chained to the inner wall of a small holdfast. Previously, Gared was bound to The Wall for forty years. He is executed on an ironwood stump in the holdfast square. Eddard's entourage seemingly does this trip in an hour or two... they don't have supplies (food or tents)... so they must be very close to Winterfell.

The season is late summer. The ninth year of summer. A nine year summer implies a nine year spring, preceeded by a nine year winter, preceeded by a nine year autumn.... Bran is seven years old. This could mean Bran will be in his mid-thirties by the time the next summer begins.

The time of day is morning. Weather is chilly.

Old Nan says wildling men are slavers, slayers, and thieves; they consort with giants and ghouls; they steal girl children and drink blood. She also says wildling women mate with the Others.

Descriptions: Robb is big and broad, fair skinned, red-brown hair, blue eyes, fourteen years old
Jon is slender and dark, grey eyes that are almost black, of an age with Robb
Eddard has brown hair and grey eyes
Ice is taller than Robb, as wide as a hand, dark as smoke, spell forged Valyrian steel
Theon is nineteen and always amused.

Robb challenges Jon to a race. Robb laughs while Jon is intent.
Jon is observant, but claims Robb found the direwolf.

Eddard explains the ways of the First Men. The man pronouncing judgement should be the executioner. This is almost immediately applied to the direwolves. If Eddard needed them dead, he'd do it. But he finds the newborn pups innocent.... foreshadowing his protestation of Robert's bounty upon Dany... and foreshadowing his offer of mercy to Cersei because of her children.

Theon claims the dead wolf a freak. Robb claims it is a wolf. Jon is the first to say direwolf.

The first south of the Wall in two hundred years. Does this mean they've been hunted to extinction south of the Wall or is GRRM implying the Starks originated from north of the Wall?

None of Eddard's men like direwolves, Hullen (the master of horses) especially.
Jory says it's a sign. Bran is too young (and we are too ignorant of the Seven KIngdoms) to know why Eddard's men take this as an evil omen.

Robb uses a different voice, Eddard's voice, to command Theon to back off.

Jon agrees that it is a sign but in the opposite way. He also speaks in a different voice, a formal voice to claim it is the Starks' fate to have these beasts. The five are selected to be given to Eddard's true children.

I am going to attempt to connect some people and actions in the story... these are new thoughts to me, bear with me. If I go completely off the rails, please tell me.

Only Jon hears the white pup. Bran hears the clatter of hooves. Bran hears the wind. But somehow Jon hears the pup and wonders why others cannot hear it. Why didn't Jon hear the pup earlier? Why didn't Jon (who Bran thinks is so keen eyed) not see it before?

So I recently reread ADWD, and Eddard and Theon both hear Bran through the Winterfell heart tree. The three-eyed crow tells Bran that is impossible, that they just hear the wind, but the text makes me think they actually heard a voice. Is this how Robb first found the direwolf? It seems she was not quite visible from the road.

Jon says the white pup crawled away. Eddard supposes it might have been driven away. Albino direwolf.

So how did the direwolf get there? Is is strange that two beings from north of the Wall were found in the same neighborhood around Winterfell within a day of each other? Gared and the direwolf. The prologue is not in Gared's POV so we don't know much. But a wolf did howl when Gared's frustration was growing. And Gared did mention that a fire would keep a direwolf away. Did Gared flee with his direwolf? How do we explain how a direwolf got to Winterfell? It did not fly, it did not climb over the Wall, it did not walk around Eastwatch. It might have braved the sheer gorge beyond the Shadow Tower or it might have floated over on ice. It might have come through the secret door in the Nightfort that Coldhands showed Sam.... if it had a Black Brother to speak the words.

Lord Brynden, the three-eyed crow, teaches Bran to skinchange a raven in ADWD. Bran notices that there is another person inside the raven. Brynden says it is a long dead child of the forest. He explains that once an animal has been bonded with a person, it is much easier for another person to do the same. Bran enjoys flying as a raven and does this with many ravens.

Now the implications are immense. I've posted before that of all the religions, I only see the priests of R'hllor doing anything resembling the supernatural. So if Jon (and Jory) claim the direwolf is a sign... who sent it? If the Stark kids are meant to have the direwolves, who sent the mother direwolf? The old gods? I don't see any power there. R'hllor? No. But Varamyr, Orell, Brynden, Bran, Jojen, the children of the forest, Arya, Jon, Coldhands, and perhaps Robb and Sansa as well display mental/emotional links with animals. (On a side note, mayhaps the Maesters do with ravens, but that's another discussion.)

I'm going to go waaaaay out on a limb here... If gods did not send the wolf, then did Brynden or the children of the forest? The children don't seem too concerned with the Seven Kingdoms, but Brynden does. Did Brynden send the direwolf or skinchange into the direwolf to accompany Gared? And if Brynden warged the pregnant direwolf, then he'd have the power to warg the albino pup (coincidentally Brynden is an albino) to crawl away and then call specifically to Jon.

In Skinchangers, dragon riders and blood, I shared some thoughts on humans links with animals.

I know I really moved from observations towards conjecture here. My fear is that I'll develop some theories quickly and find that they are all dead ends by ASOS.
 
I like all of your thoughts on the Prologue, but you missed one thing, possibly my favourite aspect of the entire chapter: "Dance with me then."

Ser Waymar is introduced as a stereotypical, arrogant, self-entitled aristocratic. Convention dictates that when he's confronted with a violent antagonist (one that's a children's bed time story made flesh no less) he should turn craven. Right? Wrong. He's clearly terrified and yet he stands his ground. And so we see not some chinless wonder, lording it over seasoned professionals who know their work, but a boy who has been thrust* into a position where he must command! He's not being arrogant, he's trying desperately to earn respect.

So there he is, nervous but confident on this relatively straightforward mission that's suddenly taken an unnervingly queer turn, when in stride these demons from a child's bed-wetting nightmare. And what does he do? "Dance with me then."
Gotta love the stones on that kid!


* Yes I know he volunteered, insisted maybe, but you can interpret that as Ser Waymar perceiving peer pressure. Or maybe residual pressure from his Dad.
 
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