Fictional religion

Nìmwey

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
8
I have been working on my fictional world, Whaiao, for 2-3 years now.

I have two sentient species, the Tawitea and the Tikao. They are not related (any more than we are to birds anyway) and have evolved separetely on different continents.

The Tawitea (or at least the particular culture that appears in the story, I can of course not include the entire species in one culture) have a general technology and advancement of science at about the level of Incas/Mayans/Aztecs, while their seafaring (since they almost always live near water and are more "waterbound" than us, and boats and ships have always been a primary way of transportation) is more like that of Europe in the 1400-1500's.

The Tikao are much more primitive, almost stone-age style (before they met the Tawitea anyway, which was approximately 200 years ago).

There is one thing, fundamental to how a society and culture is built, that I still haven't gotten anywhere with - and that is religion.
I myself am an atheist, but I cannot believe that people without advanced technology, as a whole (even though individuals may), can live without religion.

I have read this thing lots of times: http://www.elfwood.com/farp/thewriting/liljenbergworlds/day0.html
But it's not getting anywhere.

I just know that I DON'T want them (either species) to be monotheistic - in my mind these religions are the ones most responsible for evils in the world, far more than any other religion. Also, it is immediately recognizeable to a reader (too familiar).

I DON'T want them to be polytheistic - again, too familiar. The egyptians, romans, greeks, even the hindu, are all polytheistic. We all recognize this.

The rest, monism, pantheism, animism, dualism, I have a hard time "gripping" them.
How do you give your fictional cultures their religions, if you don't want them to be immediately recognizeable mono- or polytheistic religions, or something else we would recognize right away? (I don't want an "Eywa-clone" either. :eek:)
 
No monotheism and no polytheism and no monism, pantheism, animism, or dualism doesn't seem to leave much room for anything else.

Is the setting science fiction or fantasy?
 
I always liked David Gemmell for his take on religion. There was no specific deity or deities but more of a simple aspect of some all encompassing power. To me as a reader it was a subtle alternative to all those fantasy pantheons that lived in other works that worked really well.
 
Give them a religion that fits their world and culture. For instance, in my Space Opera universe, there is a species that look a bit like bipedal otters, and they live on a world covered in rivers. So, naturally, most religions on that world involve things like river spirits, and general water-worship. (A bit more complicated than what I just mentioned but you get the gist)

I'm an atheist myself, but I find it quite fun to add religion to the world building aspect of my universe.
 
Anything but an atheist myself and I think you are right to include religion in a primitive culture we have few examples of a primitive culture without religion here on earth. (I think none.) In general primitives look to religion to explain what they cannot explain and to give reasons for societal rules and to some extent teeth to those rules. I think that the polytheism is the most likely result of such a basis for religion. But it does not have to be anything like the developed polytheism of the cultured Greeks or Egyptians. I would deal with it more like the "god" of the storm, river, sun, etc. without trying to create an hierarchy or a complex set of myths. A kind of folk religion would not need such complexities.
 
Have you considered having the Tawitea worship their leader? Hmm... I'm getting some ideas on this myself now, so hopefully you will, too.

The Tikao could maybe live near a semi-active volcano that they can worship. Probably it erupted sometime long ago, and they can have stories about what happens when the god is angered. They could also read portents in solidified lava after minor eruptions.


I think you should try to forget our modern ways of describing religions and focus on the characters in your story, and their settings. What is there around them, both physically and politically? Do you need people to be actively religious? Will you be needing a temple of some sort for an action scene? Maybe a very good or very evil high priest? Will the god/gods actively intervene if needed, or maybe meddle with things even when not needed?

I personally find it interesting to know what the deities in a story actually do (if anything), and how it affects the characters in the story. If the religious aspects of the world aren't relevant to the plot, you don't even have to dwell on it much. Just pick the most suited belief system and roll with it. Mention it a few times ("The Great Tree knows I've had better days!", 'She curled up under the blanket, touching the pearl-embroidered emblem of Morpheus, the God of dreams, before closing her eyes.') so you have something of a religious nature established in case you need it later.
 
It seems you've really set us an impossible question. If you don't want a religious idea that's familiar, you will have to fabricate something non-religious out of wholecloth and turn it into a religion.

I also think you're being a bit narrow-minded by dismissing polytheism and monotheism as "too familiar"; there's literally hundreds upon hundreds of different incarnations of these two broad religious types, and I guarantee most people have never even heard of 99% of them.
 
No monotheism and no polytheism and no monism, pantheism, animism, or dualism doesn't seem to leave much room for anything else.

Is the setting science fiction or fantasy?
I didn't say they couldn't have any of the rest, I said no monotheism or polytheism, and the rest, I have a hard time "gripping", in other words, "understanding what they mean".

It is science fiction. No high tech, it's just that there is no magic or other fantastical elements.

But thanks, everyone.

And yes, I do think mono- and polytheism is too "familiar". Like I said, it is something we all know, and I want to give them a slightly more alien feeling.
(BTW, the guys in my avatar are just ordinary humans, not cheap aliens. ;))
 
I would give them religion it could be used as motivion for the races to interact with the other. No religion in your storyline would seem unbeliveable I think. You can of course have characters that are doubters to contrast and highlight the problems caused by these religions as you go along. This would add some dept to the plot.

So I don't think you can do justice to your plot without a mention of any religion, I would add something. It does not have to play a central part in the writing but I would not pass up the the oppertunity for an extra layer in the plot.

The question has brought to my mind the Spanish conquest of South America. Not all the Spanish were happy with the what occured but greed won out, that and Small Pox.

Anyway, my oponion is clear, good luck with your work Nimwey.
 
To give you some more information about them...

This is a picture I just put together (two separately scanned drawings) of the Tikao. http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6034/tikao.jpg

I am struggling to make the lifeforms on the planet seem more alien (many people would slap me just for using humanoids), which is why I gave them another pair of eyes on the last drawing (to the right), not sure if I will keep it but it's there for now. :eek:

They obviously lay eggs, they are covered in a primitive type of feathers and thus don't have clothing (they would probably only need that in extreme temperatures), only to cover their genitals and some jewelry/accessories.

They don't have nipples/mammaries, and instead feed their young by chewing the food for them and feeding them mouth-to-mouth (seen in some human cultures).
This has lead to kissing as a sign of affection - but not like with us in western culture, they do mouth-to-mouth kissing between close friends and family as well.

It's impossible to tell the gender of a Tikao before they reach sexual maturity at about age 10-12, which is why they don't have "he" or "she" in their language. Their language BTW, cannot be pronounced by us, and they cannot speak our languages, since they make completely different sounds (like wookiees, prawn etc. - but exactly what they sound like, I don't know yet).

Most Tikao are inherently afraid of water and are very poor swimmers. They have very poor eyesight at night, but see better (more colors and sharper detail) than we do during daytime.
They have no external ears. They are shorter and lighter than us, being about 140-170 (max) centimeters tall.

I am working on their sexuality and family structure, but as it is now, they are polyandrous, meaning one female has several males. Another idea is polyamory, meaning no closed pairs (all females have several males, and all males have several females).

*~*~*

The Tawitea are purple-skinned, largely hairless (like us, but I suppose even more hairless), and have evolved around the water. (Idea I got from the "aquatic ape hypothesis".)
They have large eyes with slits instead of round pupils (yes, catlike, but never ever will I compare them to cats ;), and that's not where I got that idea anyway), so I suppose they are more evening/night active than we and sleep during the brightest hours of the day.

Like I said, their seafaring has gotten quite advanced in the last couple of centuries, and the particular culture I am creating is located in this planet's "Caribbean", meaning a small sea with islands all around it.

The Tawitea and Tikao are (also, like I said) from completely separate parts of the evolutionary tree, and have evolved on continents that split off several hundred million years ago. The creatures on the Tawitea's continent have a form of sensor organs on their heads (I came up with them well over a year ago and I still don't know what they are used for :eek:), and in some creatures, like the Tawitea, these organs have "gathered" around the hole that makes up the ear, to form a primitive external ear.

Oh and about Tikao and kissing :D - the Tawitea don't do this at all. (It is not done in all human cultures either, some believe your soul is in your saliva apparently, so you don't want to lose your soul by...)

The Tawitea have four elements which play a large part of their culture.
These are water, earth, the sky and the stars (yes, sky and stars are separate).
An individual is given his or her element during adolesence, perhaps in a form of "coming of age-ritual".
Water is probably the most common one, and also most cherished (although not too prestigious), since water is so defining for Tawitea society. The most common jobs here relate to fishing, diving (which includes gathering food) and constructing and using ships.
Earth is also quite common, and individuals with this element work neither with water, in the air or with anything spiritual. They are often farmers, hunters, builders and artists.
Sky is more rare, and those who belong to this Element (5-10%?) become Okaiwa riders (name needed for that "profession" - but in short, they ride big flying creatures with a 12-meter wingspan).
Then the fourth element, and the rarest (?) - the Stars. Those who belong to this element (~5%?) become spiritual advisors, philosophers and scientists.

Bowler1 - I agree, I don't think I can have good world-building without a fleshed-out religion. And since they are not in a very "technological age", they still have to answer the big questions of life with religion.

The main conflict will be - or at least be sparked through** - tensions between the two species. They discovered each other about 200 years ago, have learned each other's languages (Tawitea can't pronounce Tikao language and vice versa, but they can speak their own language and understand what the other one's saying), exchanged cultural information, traveled between the continents and visited each other, etc.

I am also working right now on what the main antagonist (I know something about her, but I still don't have a name) wants and what she does. Religion may be a part of her motivation, but I want it to be deeper and more complex than that (so it won't be like the spanish inquisition or something else like that).
** Because the conflict won't just be Tawitea vs. Tikao, their own society will probably also be pretty much undermined by themselves.
 
I know you said you had a hard time gripping things such as animism. As a very generalised description, it's simply a belief that the essence of a god inhabits natural objects and phenomena. So you could have, for example, gods of the wind and sea, quite common in the past, or sacred stones, mountains, caves, etc. They wouldn't even have to have names, as such, only wind, sea, holy grotto and so on, as they would be aspects of holiness, not needing description in their culture.

Another, similar religious idea is animalism, where aspects of deity are seen in living creatures. Predators can be the gods of death and balance, for instance. Stealing shamelessly from a real belief system, one of the principal gods could be an insect, that, on the surface looks insignificant. As a device, it might be helpful in showing a culture's acceptance of the fragility of life and their part in the 'Grand Plan'.

I'm sure you probably know much of this, though, so I don't know how helpful it is. :)
 
I think if they could worship something real... like a sea monster! And part of getting older could be to sneak into its lair and leave offering, or be eaten... this could create conflict between your two tribes if the lesser ones take offence to their gods / god and hunt the beast...

EDIT: Wouldn't it be better to find something that works for them? Certain types of religion are common for a reason? And if not then you should do the work yourself and create your own.
 
Religions fill a number of roles:-

1. Explain the apparently inexplicable.

2. Allow us to believe that our consciousness or essence can survive death.

3. Provide a model for social control or cohesion.

4. Allow us to believe that we can achieve certain outcomes by doing certain things (accept Jesus= go to heaven. Placate the sun god= ensure the crops grow).

Ultimately, they put certainty (or the illusion of certainty, depending on your religious views) into an uncertain world.

Bear that in mind when deciding on your fictional religion. Otherwise, you're the writer, so it's down to you to have the ideas.

Regards,

Peter
 
Hey Nimway,

I know you’re after advice on religion, but I have a few other thoughts that might be useful too. As ever, feel free to completely ignore me, it’s your story.

I am struggling to make the lifeforms on the planet seem more alien (many people would slap me just for using humanoids), which is why I gave them another pair of eyes on the last drawing (to the right), not sure if I will keep it but it's there for now.
clip_image001.gif



They obviously lay eggs, they are covered in a primitive type of feathers and thus don't have clothing (they would probably only need that in extreme temperatures), only to cover their genitals and some jewelry/accessories.

They don't have nipples/mammaries, and instead feed their young by chewing the food for them and feeding them mouth-to-mouth (seen in some human cultures).
This has lead to kissing as a sign of affection - but not like with us in western culture, they do mouth-to-mouth kissing between close friends and family as well.

It's impossible to tell the gender of a Tikao before they reach sexual maturity at about age 10-12, which is why they don't have "he" or "she" in their language. Their language BTW, cannot be pronounced by us, and they cannot speak our languages, since they make completely different sounds (like wookiees, prawn etc. - but exactly what they sound like, I don't know yet).

This can be very difficult to manage. I have a third gender in my wip, and it can make for some compromises in terms using ‘he’ and ‘she’ in the narrative. Now, I only have them in very few scenes and have found it difficult. If you have an entire novel, I can only imagine it will be a bit of a tightrope. The other thing is that whether or not they mature into gender, they still do eventually for the purposes of procreation. They would still have ‘he’ and ‘she’, as the late blossoming does not mean that the words wouldn’t exist. Generally, if they have words for male and female, they will have ‘he’ and ‘she’.

Most Tikao are inherently afraid of water and are very poor swimmers. They have very poor eyesight at night, but see better (more colors and sharper detail) than we do during daytime.
They have no external ears. They are shorter and lighter than us, being about 140-170 (max) centimeters tall.

I am working on their sexuality and family structure, but as it is now, they are polyandrous, meaning one female has several males. Another idea is polyamory, meaning no closed pairs (all females have several males, and all males have several females).

*~*~*

The Tawitea are purple-skinned, largely hairless (like us, but I suppose even more hairless), and have evolved around the water. (Idea I got from the "aquatic ape hypothesis".)
They have large eyes with slits instead of round pupils (yes, catlike, but never ever will I compare them to cats
clip_image002.gif
, and that's not where I got that idea anyway), so I suppose they are more evening/night active than we and sleep during the brightest hours of the day.

My only concern here is that if they’re hairless I’m not sure they would be most active in the colder part of the day. Their society would likely make better use of warmth.

Like I said, their seafaring has gotten quite advanced in the last couple of centuries, and the particular culture I am creating is located in this planet's "Caribbean", meaning a small sea with islands all around it.

The Tawitea and Tikao are (also, like I said) from completely separate parts of the evolutionary tree, and have evolved on continents that split off several hundred million years ago. The creatures on the Tawitea's continent have a form of sensor organs on their heads (I came up with them well over a year ago and I still don't know what they are used for
clip_image003.gif
), and in some creatures, like the Tawitea, these organs have "gathered" around the hole that makes up the ear, to form a primitive external ear.

Oh and about Tikao and kissing
clip_image004.gif
- the Tawitea don't do this at all. (It is not done in all human cultures either, some believe your soul is in your saliva apparently, so you don't want to lose your soul by...)

The Tawitea have four elements which play a large part of their culture.
These are water, earth, the sky and the stars (yes, sky and stars are separate).
An individual is given his or her element during adolesence, perhaps in a form of "coming of age-ritual".
Water is probably the most common one, and also most cherished (although not too prestigious), since water is so defining for Tawitea society. The most common jobs here relate to fishing, diving (which includes gathering food) and constructing and using ships.
Earth is also quite common, and individuals with this element work neither with water, in the air or with anything spiritual. They are often farmers, hunters, builders and artists.
Sky is more rare, and those who belong to this Element (5-10%?) become Okaiwa riders (name needed for that "profession" - but in short, they ride big flying creatures with a 12-meter wingspan).
Then the fourth element, and the rarest (?) - the Stars. Those who belong to this element (~5%?) become spiritual advisors, philosophers and scientists.


Hmm…I might suggest that you include fire as well. Given that they have probably created fire given the delineation of the society and the division of occupations, I am assuming that they have developed enough to use metals (where they would need fire for forges, ship parts etc). That way you can have artists (i.e. those that are more ‘passionate’ and creative) within fire. The idea of artists being in the solid, practical grounding (ha ha) of ‘earth’ doesn’t seem to match for me.

Bowler1 - I agree, I don't think I can have good world-building without a fleshed-out religion. And since they are not in a very "technological age", they still have to answer the big questions of life with religion.

The main conflict will be - or at least be sparked through** - tensions between the two species. They discovered each other about 200 years ago, have learned each other's languages (Tawitea can't pronounce Tikao language and vice versa, but they can speak their own language and understand what the other one's saying), exchanged cultural information, traveled between the continents and visited each other, etc.

This is going to make life very difficult. Imagine trying to learn French without being able to ask a single question. When people learn things about languages by listening, that isn’t enough. You need to be able to ask what things are called, to carry out conversations to gain a degree of fluency. Also, if nobody can speak the other’s language, why learn it at all? They’ll never be able to converse, so why bother? Unless they develop some kind of written hybrid, there’s no reason for this.

I am also working right now on what the main antagonist (I know something about her, but I still don't have a name) wants and what she does. Religion may be a part of her motivation, but I want it to be deeper and more complex than that (so it won't be like the spanish inquisition or something else like that).
** Because the conflict won't just be Tawitea vs. Tikao, their own society will probably also be pretty much undermined by themselves.

Now, onto religion.

Taking in the above, I think you can quite easily go for an elemental style of worship with the Tawitea. This can be reflective of different factions, and even possibly be the cause of conflict within their society as each faction ‘fights’ for more cred. Alternatively, a constant state of harmony with recognition of equal value to the elements could be good. You could even take it further and have the fiery ones as somehow ostracised or ‘evil’, as they’re devoted to passions and swift changes in temperament, or taking things to extremes. This may have led them astray at some point, perhaps leading to segregation. Plot-wise, it could be interesting to explore this dichotomy. The Star faction could also be higher than the other four, in that they are able to function ‘normally’ in daylight (assuming the sun is part of that. Perhaps the Fire guys, if you should use them, could be close to the Star dudes because of the sun. This could also create more depth in the history, as conflict between Earth, Air and Water vs Stars and Fire would be likely. Perhaps the girl could even be the catalyst for division/ balance, in that she bridges the gap between the two sides.


With the Tikao, I think you might be able to draw from the importance placed on gender. Perhaps their gods are simply male and female, with a separate religion for women than for men. That way, the rite could have something to do with that, a coming of age in which the god ‘male’ or the god ‘female’ chooses them. The social commentary that could result might be very interesting to explore.

By having the above, you have two completely different bases for beliefs, but each have different ‘sides’ that allow you to develop conflict and use that conflict as a basis for certain things within their society.

I think that perhaps it might be worth switching the day and night thing, just because of the physical make up of the races (hairless would be active when warmer i.e. daytime, feathered more active when cooler i.e. night). Also on the physiology, predators tend to have their eyes facing front, while the prey have them on the side. This may be a factor in how the two peoples react to one another.

Just some food for thought, hope it helps.
 
Hit up some museums, like the equivelant of the British museum but for Sweden (the one that has all the old historical and archaeological stuff from all over the world).

A lot of the objects of most interest and greatest insight into a culture or peoples are their religious artefacts. That'll give you something visual to maybe spark your imagination

It's also fun to try and interpret what you're looking at and then read the info on it and see if you got it right
 
One idea that I like I think it's a very interesting take on religion is the ancient alien idea. Your world could have "Star People" which have in some way affected each people in different ways; technologies, culture and their physical appearance. You could take that in so many directions and it's something unconventional, plus it's no as well known as the other takes on religion. Hope that helps

Juelz
 
I would love to read a book that creates a religion unlike any other, but doubt it'll happen. Religion stems from a need to explain. It is, and always has been, I think, a very close ancestor, grandparent perhaps, of science. It answered sufficiently well the unanswered questions of its day: Why does the sun rise and set? Why is there a moon and why does it behave differently from the sun? What are the lights in the sky and why are some brighter (bigger) than others? Why did it rain yesterday but not today? Have I done something to make the earth shake? How come plants come back again even after they have been covered with snow? What are these other animals and why are they important to me?

The sun is often the dominant deity on Earth, except far up in in the northern hemisphere when the Moon was the more frequent visitor. So, how many suns and moons does your planet have?

The selfish centre is at the core of all religion: I think therefore I must be really important.

When one race invaded another, the question became: They look the same as me, but they have machines and weapons and strange body decorations - could they be gods?

I hope some of this helps you in your imaginative quest.
 
Thanks everyone, I am getting a lot of inspiration. ;)

juelz4sure - That made me think of the two humans in my story and where they come from (the ones in my avatar). I need to have a couple of humans from our time as protagonists, for various reasons. (For example; they know as little about the world as the reader, I need them to be able to compare a certain creature or thing with a creature or thing on Earth, etc.)
They probably get to the planet (this is in no way set in stone) in the very clichéd and unscientific way of a "portal" of sorts opening spontaneously and they happen to walk through it. (This makes it more soft science-fiction or even science fantasy, but it's obviously definitely not hard sci-fi I'm aiming for. I have no idea how clichéd it is since I frankly haven't read much, but I am looking up as many common clichés as possible and how to avoid them.)
I have had that idea for a while, but what you said made me think that perhaps that has happened very far back in the past as well, so far back that nowadays, the people only have vague mentions of it in their history texts and/or religion? I don't know.

Interference - I'm pretty sure the planet only has one sun, but several moons (2+). How many, I don't know yet, since I think I need to learn more about astronomy before I can take that on. (My main focus so far has been biology - creatures mainly, since that's "my field" - and building characters and a culture.)

Jake Reynolds - I saw your post but didn't read it now as I am ridiculously sensitive to any form of criticism, even when people are just being kind/constructive. Maybe I'll read it later. ;)
 
Just an aside - never has my Chrons name been more apt, I think - you should be ok reading Mr Reynolds' suggestions. He isn't really criticising, but asking one or two questions which you may have already answered for yourself or may be intending to answer as the drafts progress.

Also, his last couple of paragraphs seem like a thoughtful response to your initial question.

I think it's probably ok to be sensitive to criticism with a work in progress, especially as if you'd been seeking a crit you wouldn't have posted here, and I'm sure that others apart from me look forward to the day you strap on that metaphorical body armour and let us rip into what you've come up with (kidding ;) :))

Hope I'm not out of line, here :eek:
 
One idea that I like I think it's a very interesting take on religion is the ancient alien idea. Your world could have "Star People" which have in some way affected each people in different ways; technologies, culture and their physical appearance. You could take that in so many directions and it's something unconventional, plus it's no as well known as the other takes on religion. Hope that helps

Juelz

Mmm, like Stargate - Goa'uld.

This can really be applied to any god in any religion. In Stargate, the more primitive humans really believed the Goa'uld were Gods - they didn't know any better. The same could be said for us today, how do we know God isn't actually an alien - with superior technology enough to create worlds and lifeforms - doing the same thing the Goa'uld did? Interesting theory. Of course we've never seen God, whereas the Goa'uld made their presence known. Physical manifestation is the key there.
 

Similar threads


Back
Top