New crackpot theory- Arya (ADWD SPOILERS)

[The Imp]

We've been speculating for years about whom the Valonqar is or will be. Cersei has always assumed it would be Tyrion, but that seems so obvious. Other possibilities have been Jaime, Bran, Kevan (now impossible), Edmure, Victarion, etc.

I think this is what will happen

Cersei will be found innocent of the charges against her, as Ser Robert Strong will prevail. She will have Tommen, and there will be no Tywin, Kevan, tyrion, even Jaime, to stand in her way. It's not clear if she is able to re-assume power, given that there's a power vacuum, and seizing power is what she does well, but whether she is living in relative obscurity, or in power, but she will be happy. Maybe she will really accept "The Faith" and be a born again Sparrow. I think that Arya will be the Valonqar and kill her. Why?

Arya is now able to assume the face of others. Cersei is on her list. Arya and Tyrion are about the right height (I think). Using a Tyrion face may allow Cersei to drop her guard and let Arya close to her. Her joy will turn to dust. She will be killed by the person she always knew would be the Valonqar, except Arya will be able to cross one more off her list.

 

[Clansman]

Wouldn't Tyrion have to be dead for Arya to use his face? And, wouldn't he have to have been killed by one of the Faceless Men in order for Arya to have access to his face?

AND, wouldn't Arya have to have killing Cersei as an assignment in order to get access to the presumably-killed-by-the-Faceless-Men Tyrion?

Just a few thoughts...

 

[Ursa major]

Doesn't it depend on what "use his face" means?

Was Jaqen H'ghar putting on (or removing) a physical face when he changed his appearance in front of Arya? I didn't think so. (And in Game of Thrones, which may or may not be canon in this respect, didn't one of Dany's maidservants mention a face being changed much like a normal person would change their expression?)

Besides, a face much covered with grayscale may need only to hint at the appearance of "Tyrion" beneath.

 

[Tywin]

I still think that dramatically it fits that Jaime does the killing. The irony is simple and sweet: the prophecy was that her brother would kill her and she always assumed it would be Tyrion without thinking that she actually has two brothers.

 

[Needle]

As much as I would love, love, love! for Arya to kill Cersei, I have to go with Tywin on this one. I believe Jaime is Cersei's Valonqar. She is bad and getting worse, he is not so bad and trying to redeem himself. She will cross a line he can not tolerate.

I don't however think a person has to be dead in order for their face to be used. Maybe the face they placed on Arya (a dead one) is only used like for training purposes. Jaqen (who i am more and more convinced is Syrio!) changed his face with a swipe of his hand, no cutting or prep needed as with Arya.

 

[The Imp]

I still think that dramatically it fits that Jaime does the killing. The irony is simple and sweet: the prophecy was that her brother would kill her and she always assumed it would be Tyrion without thinking that she actually has two brothers.

I agree that Jaime is simple and sweet. My contention is that Arya as Tyrion is far more interesting and elegant . GRRM has had Arya recite that list every night for a reason.

 

[The Imp]

As much as I would love, love, love! for Arya to kill Cersei, I have to go with Tywin on this one. I believe Jaime is Cersei's Valonqar. She is bad and getting worse, he is not so bad and trying to redeem himself. She will cross a line he can not tolerate.

I don't however think a person has to be dead in order for their face to be used. Maybe the face they placed on Arya (a dead one) is only used like for training purposes. Jaqen (who i am more and more convinced is Syrio!) changed his face with a swipe of his hand, no cutting or prep needed as with Arya.

I think you're correct. It seems as if Arya, as a nice, would not be nearly as powerful or even have the abilities of a full FM.

 

[Rufio]

Whether it is possible or not, is a Tyrion face a good disguise for someone wanting to assassinate Cersei? Only if someone wanted to prove some kind of point, I think, and I can't see why Arya or the Faceless Men would want to do that. But...

the prophecy was that her brother would kill her and she always assumed it would be Tyrion without thinking that she actually has two brothers.

I'm not so sure about this. The prophecy isn't quite so straightforward imo.

"Will the king and I have children?" she asked.
"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."
...
"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,"
"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

So first things first it seems Cersei won't die until Tommen and Myrcella do ( ), I can't think of any other interpretation to the tears and shrouds, and one is down already ( ).

But that's besides my point, which is that it's not certain that it is her brother that is the valonqar. The valonqar is ambiguous, it could mean a younger brother rather than your younger brother, which obviously widens the field. Also I've read somewhere about the possibility of it being a gender ambiguous term, I can't remember the exact details of that - but it brings in some other candidates including Arya without any need for Tyrion's face, and Sansa. Although "a younger sibling" brings most of the world into contention. Dany, Jon Snow, etc etc.

My favourite theory on the valonqar is that The Faith will put forward a certain gravedigger from the Quiet Isle as their champion for Cersei's trial, he will win against his older brother('s headless zombie corpse) and therefore fulfill the prophecy. Along a similar line is that Loras Tyrell will fight in the trial and become the valonqar, which isn't quite as satisfying but still could technically work. There are reasons I'm not covinced either of those will happen but there's one reason I think they could, which is that almost any time a character has laid out a full plan to the reader before it happens, it's failed. We know Cersei's plan for her trial, Robert Strong to fight, win, and prove her innocence.

 

[Mesanna]

This is a cool theory, but I also have to join the dissenters.

I was also of the belief that Faceless Men could only 'take' a face from someone they killed, so unless Arya learns the trick, or Tyrion shows up at that temple place, I just can't see it.

I agree with Tywin also about Jaime being the valonqar. It just has a certain beautiful symmetry to it. The other slight possibility in my mind is Lancel Lannister. Now that he's found The Faith, he's shaping up nicely to be a religious nutter and has had first hand experience of Cersei's wanton ways. I could easily see him killing her in a fit of religious piety. He's part of the Faith Militant, and maybe they refer to each other as Brother, similar to the Night Watch?

 

[The Imp]

I called it a crackpot theory for a reason, but I wouldn't 100% dismiss it.

I'm not sure that we know enough about the FM to know that they need the face of someone they've killed to be able to change into them, It might be true, or it might not be. I still think Arya is going to kill cersei, and this is the only way I can make it "fit"

 

[viZion]

I've pointed this out before, but Arya killing Cersei is just a waste of everyone's time. I know it's somewhat cool to think about but, again, Cersei is such a minor threat* that Arya killing her wouldn't have a point. It would be much more poetic if Jaime killed her.

*I've also pointed out before that taking Cersei out of the picture hurts the Targaryens. Cersei is such an inept ruler that it helps Dany, Aegon, Varys, Illyrio, Jon, Tyrion, etc to have her in power so she can screw things up enough to make it easy to come in and re-conquer Westeros.

Anyway, I'd be sorely disappointed if GRRM wasted everyone's time (including his own) to get Arya in a position to kill Cersei. Arya's moved on from killing lists of petty characters.

 

[The Imp]

I've pointed this out before, but Arya killing Cersei is just a waste of everyone's time. I know it's somewhat cool to think about but, again, Cersei is such a minor threat* that Arya killing her wouldn't have a point. It would be much more poetic if Jaime killed her.

*I've also pointed out before that taking Cersei out of the picture hurts the Targaryens. Cersei is such an inept ruler that it helps Dany, Aegon, Varys, Illyrio, Jon, Tyrion, etc to have her in power so she can screw things up enough to make it easy to come in and re-conquer Westeros.

Anyway, I'd be sorely disappointed if GRRM wasted everyone's time (including his own) to get Arya in a position to kill Cersei. Arya's moved on from killing lists of petty characters.

Arya still says her prayers. She's very devout.

 

[Eulalia]

I agree that Jaime would be poetic.

Here is a two-fer, crackpot theory, with a big stretch. It satisfies Arya's prayers as well, and her training. Arya will kill Tommen, and use his face or impersonate him to get close to Cersei. Arya would be a younger sibling twice over and Tommen would have died before Cersei. Maybe he will even be wearing a golden cloak/shroud. Prophecy fulfilled.

I didn't see Arya as a strangler so much as a stabber, but I think she is expanding her horizons.

She has a little list. (cue Gilbert and Sullivan music)

 

[viZion]

Arya still says her prayers. She's very devout.

Still would be a waste of everyone's time to have Arya go through all of that training to kill...Cersei? Lame. Cersei is so far down on the list of important power players in the world. Remember, Varys keeps killing off Hands to put Cersei *back into* power. That's how awful she is at ruling the Kingdom!

Let me clarify a bit. The list has become more of a symbolic link to Arya's true Stark self rather than something she's really going to fulfill. To put it another way, Arya may think she's reciting the list because she thinks she's still going to kill those people, but GRRM is using it as a tool to show the reader that Arya is still a Stark deep down inside in spite of the Kindly Man's attempts to make her forget her true self. Does that make sense? The list itself is now meaningless in the grand scheme of things because the names on it don't belong to anyone important.

Now if a Varys-level character or something were on that list then that'd be something. I really think Arya has much bigger targets in her future than Cersei. Let Jaime or Tyrion or the Hound or Tommen or someone like that handle Cersei.

 

[Eulalia]

I think you are correct geo politically, Viz. Varys does like Cersei in power.

Emotionally, though, for purposes of Stark vengence, I think Cersei is a pretty darn big target.

How will our little girl grow up? Is she still a Stark?

By the way, I'm not good at the political side of the doings of the FM, but could Dorne pay to have Tommen removed? Arya could then fulfill her extra unofficial project with Cersei.

 

[The Imp]

I think you are correct geo politically, Viz. Varys does like Cersei in power.

Emotionally, though, for purposes of Stark vengence, I think Cersei is a pretty darn big target.

How will our little girl grow up? Is she still a Stark?

By the way, I'm not good at the political side of the doings of the FM, but could Dorne pay to have Tommen removed? Arya could then fulfill her extra unofficial project with Cersei.

Or could Varys/Illyrio want Tommen dead.

Perhpas I should revise the theory to Arya kills Tommen, takes his face, is able to get close to Cersei and bingo, scratch her off the list. I think i like that even more than the orginal.

PS Tommen does have a "thing" for cats. I wonder if Arya might warg into Balyreon (sp?) first to scout things out, and then get close to Tommen. Now THAT would be coming full circle.

 

[Ursa major]

PS Tommen does have a "thing" for cats.

Could this be an example of Chekov's gun? If so, this latest theory (Arya, disguised as Tommen, kills Cersei) might not be crackpot at all.

 

[The Imp]

Could this be an example of Chekov's gun? If so, this latest theory (Arya, disguised as Tommen, kills Cersei) might not be crackpot at all.

It really does seem possible, and would be really elegant and tie a lot of things together into one neat little bundle (of fur) Arya, in aGoT, chasing the cat that used to belong to Rhaenys and then returning 5 books later to use the cat to get close to Tommen, kill him, assume his identity and kill Cersei. it would be brilliant.

This is why I love this board

and yes, it would be a great example using Chekov's gun. So much better than Deus ex machina

 

[Eulalia]

Oh yes! Arya warging into Rhaenys' cat would be perfect, Imp!

Ary is Cat's daughter. Arya chases cats. Ary learns to catch cats, a task assigned by Syrio. Arya runs into Rhaenys' cat. Arya becomes Cat of the Canals. Arya wargs into a cat. Then, she uses her ability as an assassin and a cat-warg to kill Tommen and then impersonates him to kill Cersei and "scratches" her off her list!

I thought of a flaw in my Dorne theory. I thought Dorne would want Tommen dead in order for Myrcella to assume the iron throne married to (I forget the Martell princes' name). But to fulfill the prophecy, Myrcella must be dead before Cersei.

I think the two of Cersei's children must be dead before the Targ comeback will go smoothly. So, there is a motive for Illyrio and Varys to remove them, when the time is right, and create a vacuum.

I wonder if that crackpot theory could be expanded even more. The FM's would use Arya to kill Myrcella and impersonate her. It might be possible if Myrcella, let's say, uses a golden veil to conceal her disfigurement. Then Arya could get closer to Tommen and Cersei.

Haven't thought that through.

 

[Gry Wnd]

Perhaps the reason is that she was praying for their deaths. Can she as a faceless man answer her own prayers (that she made as Arya Stark) for death....?