Beginning with a dream.

[Nott Hraezla]

I'm looking for examples, primarily, but any comments are of course welcome.

When does it work? When does it doesn't work?

Thinking about doing it myself. The context is a cursed man who dreams of being tortured to death. Lucidly. I am considering having this character, who is arguably the main character, have his first POV wait until a chapter or two inward, in order to eliminate the problem of "beginning with a dream."
My plan is to provide a very vivid image about him waking up in the morning in the forest, his head resting on his backpack, just where he left it. Still attached. I assume this would work, but being as how the dreams are important (to the plot), I'd like to touch base on your people's thoughts.

Thanks.

 

[allmywires]

I think dreams/visions can be really useful in a novel, especially when there are fantastical elements involved. I normally would say to stay well away from what you're proposing, but I think you could make it work. Examples of where 'beginning with a dream' would certainly not work would be something completely unrelated to your character, and your storyline, so that your reader has just got used to one set of circumstances and then they feel cheated because you're essentially ripping the rug out from under their feet by saying, 'Just kidding, that wasn't actually real, this is what the book's really going to be about.'

Where it could work is a dream that is intrinsically linked to the theme or plot of the book, perhaps foreshadowing later events, but that would at least have a meaning. To me, that sounds like what you want to do, so I think it could work.

 

[SPH Young]

I too have heard the 'no beginning with a dream sequence' rule as well. Robin Hobb began chapter two of 'Ship Of Magic' with a brief dream sequence, so I say it's perfectly fine if the execution is good, and as has been said, it's integral to the plot.

I actually quite like dreams in fiction. It can add some mystery. Especially if you promise to eventually let the reader know their significance, but not straight away.

 

[Peter Graham]

I too have heard the 'no beginning with a dream sequence' rule as well

It's NOT a rule. There are NO rules other than writing as good a story as you can. If that means starting with a dream sequence, start with a dream sequence. If it means starting with a 30 page description of the Dagenham Girl Pipers, start with a 30 page description of the Dagenham Girl Pipers.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Venusian Broon]

I suppose the thing to watch with dreams in fiction is if they generate the dreaded ...and it was all a dream structure. A narrative device so familiar that I'm sure most humans by the age of 7 have independently come up with it.

'A-ha surprise! Reader, all you read in this chapter is not real and was a dream/virtual reality/hallucination and the character wakes up unhurt/not changed.'

Although in some very (very,very) rare occurences it may work, generally it is hackneyed, unsatisfying and is deux ex machina in all but name.

 

[Mouse]

It's NOT a rule. There are NO rules other than writing as good a story as you can.

Do you ever get bored of saying that, Peter?

 

[mosaix]

It's NOT a rule. There are NO rules other than writing as good a story as you can. If that means starting with a dream sequence, start with a dream sequence. If it means starting with a 30 page description of the Dagenham Girl Pipers, start with a 30 page description of the Dagenham Girl Pipers.

Regards,

Peter

Of course, Peter, you are quite right.

If, however, the powers that be at publishing houses don't like it, then you might be advised just to think a little, tiny, weeny, bit about it before doing it.

But it ISN'T a rule.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I now however have the image of thirty royal pages dancing with thirty Dagenham girl pipers, all singing 'It's not a rule, it's not a rule' stuck in my head.

Which of course, no doubt, I will dream about tonight.

 

[Peter Graham]

Do you ever get bored of saying that, Peter?

Yes, but I persist in the hope that some day someone will actually believe me. But on the grounds that it must be as boring to read as to write, perhaps I should just go back to the passive/aggressive sarcasm instead.....

If, however, the powers that be at publishing houses don't like it, then you might be advised just to think a little, tiny, weeny, bit about it before doing it.

Agreed. But so far as I am aware, there is no way of finding out what they think about this sort of thing, is there? The fact that no-one has printed a book which starts with a dream sequence might mean that they don't like them, but might equally mean that:-

1. No-one has submitted any.

2. Folk have submitted them but they fall down for other reasons.

Regards,

Peter

 

[SPH Young]

It's NOT a rule. There are NO rules other than writing as good a story as you can. If that means starting with a dream sequence, start with a dream sequence. If it means starting with a 30 page description of the Dagenham Girl Pipers, start with a 30 page description of the Dagenham Girl Pipers.

Regards,

Peter

Hehe. It's okay Peter. I said I'd heard it, and when I did, it was stated as a rule. I didn't necessarily agree with it.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Yes, but I persist in the hope that some day someone will actually believe me. But on the grounds that it must be as boring to read as to write, perhaps I should just go back to the passive/aggressive sarcasm instead.....

Please do.


For what it's worth, I believe you.

 

[mosaix]

perhaps I should just go back to the passive/aggressive sarcasm instead.....

Come on, Peter, we all know you're just a big softy.

But so far as I am aware, there is no way of finding out what they think about this sort of thing, is there?

Actually, Peter, I do believe that there was a list of things that they hate most.

I seem to remember a link to it here on Chrons. Anyone remember it?

 

[Scott R. Forshaw]

If I'm not mistaken, one of the Harry Potter books began with a dream sequence, and if memory serves, I found it to work quite well in that instance. Sadly, I can't recall exactly which book it was, but I do remember the dream having a significant role to play later in the story.

In answer to your question: by all means use a dream sequence, but ensure that it is intrinsically linked to the story you're trying to tell, and not just there for the hell of it - or because it seems like a 'cool' thing to do.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

If it means starting with a 30 page description of the Dagenham Girl Pipers, start with a 30 page description of the Dagenham Girl Pipers.

Is a scenario such as this usually a good idea, though?


He is right, though. Begin with whatever you feel you need to to get your idea jump-started. It doesn't matter if that means beginning with a dream sequence, or a veteran returning home from war, or getting shot and winding up in a healing center, or even laying down a chapter's worth of describing how to make cheese, if necessary. First drafts are for getting your ideas out. It's after that that the minute details occur. Remember, you have to find your diamond before you polish it.

 

[goldhawk]

There are no rules but something should be avoided because of the difficulty of pulling them off. Starting with a dream oftens means the author is not starting with the story. Most publishers don't want stories that start with background material; they want stories that start with stories.

Putting dreams in a story is putting fiction inside fiction. They are not essential to a plot. Hiding something important in another layer will only confuse your readers. Don't have your protagonist dream, or think, or philosophize, or wax poetic. Have him do. Tell your story thru a sequence of events, action, and dialogue. Show, don't tell.

 

[Hex]

If I'm not mistaken, one of the Harry Potter books began with a dream sequence, and if memory serves, I found it to work quite well in that instance. Sadly, I can't recall exactly which book it was, but I do remember the dream having a significant role to play later in the story.

It was number four, I think, and it wasn't 100% dream. But she gets away with all sorts of stuff you're not meant to do (Hex typed, softly).

I liked your book of rules, Peter (and VB). And the character-generation dice.

 

[Venusian Broon]

It was number four, I think, and it wasn't 100% dream. But she gets away with all sorts of stuff you're not meant to do (Hex typed, softly).

I liked your book of rules, Peter (and VB). And the character-generation dice.

Having just read an article on the proliferation of 'Vampire hunting kits' I've now got half a mind to try (cough, cough) see if I can procure a few sets. Must be a market out there for Victoriana of such sorts...

 

[Abernovo]

Having just read an article on the proliferation of 'Vampire hunting kits' I've now got half a mind to try (cough, cough) see if I can procure a few sets. Must be a market out there for Victoriana of such sorts...

Flog them outside Highgate cemetery - genuine, as used on this very spot. You'd make a mint from the gullible.

There's nothing wrong with starting with a dream, or as some choose to call it, a vision. Using TV as an example, about half the episodes of Medium started that way, I think. Didn't seem to harm the ratings.

Just so long as it doesn't end with... and it was all a dream.