Winds of winter info-spoiler

[feltyyyy]

Found a description of a new chapter from Winds of winter.Don't know if its genuine but supposedly from a GRRM reading.

For some reason I'm not allowed to post the link on her so this will have to do


For the second chapter we joined Tyrion playing cyvasse with Brown Ben, while they wait for 'Ser Grandfather's' army to sally forth and try to break the siege of Meereen. These two share banter with other of Brown Ben's staff about what's the worst thing about waiting for the battle to start, punctuated by the sound of the trebuchets as they fling more plague corpses into Meereen. Brown Ben muses that the two dragons are wild cards which could attack anyything on either side during the battle. They assume Dany will return on the third dragon and speculate about rescuing the three hostages - Daario, the eunuch and the horse boy - and delivering them to Meereen thereby changing sides a second time but claiming that they only pretended to change sides before so as to learn the Yunkish plans. Tyrion thinks any skepticism about this will be outweighed by gratitude that he killed Dany's most dangerous enemy - Tywin. Just as Tyrion is about to win the cyvasse game Jorah bursts in with news of black sails in the bay (ironborn ships) flying dragon banners.

 

[Eulalia]

Thanks feltyyyy.

I had a crackpot theory when re reading ADWD that is sort of related to this, at least to the next scene or two.

The horn that binds the dragons is supposed to kill any man that blows the horn, right? (paraphrasing). Could GRRM use a classic prophecy gender bender and have Dany survive blowing the horn? (She is a woman not a man, as well as having some sort of anti burn gift.) It would be handy if Dany could bind the dragons to her will. Or along those lines, Tyrion is a half man.

 

[Needle]

Thanks feltyyyy.

I had a crackpot theory when re reading ADWD that is sort of related to this, at least to the next scene or two.

The horn that binds the dragons is supposed to kill any man that blows the horn, right? (paraphrasing). Could GRRM use a classic prophecy gender bender and have Dany survive blowing the horn? (She is a woman not a man, as well as having some sort of anti burn gift.) It would be handy if Dany could bind the dragons to her will. Or along those lines, Tyrion is a half man.

I like it! Never occurred to me but Dany is certainly not a man! Could work!

And what a kick in the teeth for the Crow's Eye!

 

[Warren_Paul]

I have suspected that myself with Dany blowing the horn. It makes a lot of sense. Her ability to withstand fire could very well make her immune to the side-effects of using the horn - and yes because she is a woman.

 

[Ursa major]

Found a description of a new chapter from Winds of winter.Don't know if its genuine but supposedly from a GRRM reading.

For some reason I'm not allowed to post the link on her so this will have to do


For the second chapter we joined Tyrion playing cyvasse....

At the recent Eastercon, GRRM read two chapters from The Winds of Winter. The first was from Victarion's point of view, the second from Tyrion's (who was indeed playing cyvasse).


And great theory, Eulalia!

 

[The Imp]

Thanks feltyyyy.

I had a crackpot theory when re reading ADWD that is sort of related to this, at least to the next scene or two.

The horn that binds the dragons is supposed to kill any man that blows the horn, right? (paraphrasing). Could GRRM use a classic prophecy gender bender and have Dany survive blowing the horn? (She is a woman not a man, as well as having some sort of anti burn gift.) It would be handy if Dany could bind the dragons to her will. Or along those lines, Tyrion is a half man.

You were doing great until the half man part. I assume you were kidding?

 

[Eulalia]

Prophets speak in tricksy ways? I don't know, maybe Tryion isn't a "man", because he is a dwarf? I could see him in command of dragons. Only half kidding. Perhaps he will be merely a rider or a saddler. And Dany's much needed advisor, Company supplier, and Hand. Maybe he will figure out the puzzle of the horn for Dany.

Dany is the more logical one by far to blow the horn. And here the sweet Victarion has kindly brought it, just when she needs to control the dragons. (with more than a whip). She certainly has the "stones" to try it.

Victarion has also brought a fleet, and is well disposed to Dany.

Moqqoro, (how do you spell his name)the priest of fire, with a very good rate of having accurate visions, has also conveniently arrived.

Ser Grandfather can be her general.

So Dany may have a Hand, an Admiral to replace Groleo, a Mage, a general, a navy, a few disparate elements of an army, aerial support and a birthright.

I suppose next they need to break the seige, free some more slaves, turn all the Companies, defeat the Volontenes and take their ships, and then get themselves to Westeros. Aegon will already have a tidy landing area and may have Dorne on his side. Arya will have bumped off some of the opposition. (maybe Tommen and/or Myrcella.)

But what of Stannis, Jaime, and Jon?

 

[Warren_Paul]

I don't believe Tyrion will have anything to do with the horn, or the dragons to be honest. I'm thinking he is just going to help Dany to overthrow his family, which is something he's been working towards the whole series. I can see the possibility that he is another child of Aerys but I very much doubt his connection goes any further than that.

I can see him becoming Dany's Hand and advisor, but that's it.

 

[Needle]

I think Eulalia has nailed it with Dany being able to blow the horn. Tyrion is as Morroqo said a small man among them casting a big shadow.. guiding, advising, pulling the strings. He knows which buttons to push for just about anyone, so he will excel at it.

 

[Eulalia]

We will learn much and more, when Winter comes!

I suppose Tyrion is much more likely to be the big shadow, rather than the hornblower. I was just looking for prophecy loopholes!

There are some strong dragon/Tyrion foreshadowing clues, though, even in the first book. He reads about them, talks about them and dreams about them.

I think there is some significance to Tyrion making the plans to create Bran's special saddle, and even to his apprenticeship riding Pretty Pig! He would also cast a very big shadow if mounted on Viserion. I'm not very sure about that part. I suppose if Dany has bound the dragons, then anyone she wishes could ride them?

At the very least, he should figure out ways to use them in battle (where his use of wildfire seems like a warm up),although he has revenge against his sister foremost in his mind, he has positive connections to the Watch, Jon, Sansa (if she figures it out), or Bran.

 

[Pedro Del Mar]

And that's how Dany puts the dragons back under her control after they go AWOL....

Well done you ser!

 

[digs]

Moqorro said to Victarion that you don't need to blow the horn to control the dragons, you only need to own it. Why would Dany risk blowing it herself when apparently there's a way for someone else to do it and still have the dragons obey her?

 

[Eulalia]

I think it is in Dany's character to take action herself and take the risk. She is "only a girl", but tried to take responsibility with her marriage. She ran towards an out of control Drogon with a whip, saved the lamb girl and she walked into the dragon egg fire! She is not Doran! Besides, maybe Tyrion will help her work out the riddle.

 

[Jaqen H'gar]

Ok, Here is a theory that I just came up with. I was shaky on it, but this info about the WOW Tyrion Chapter made me more sure.

Tyrion's portion of DWD ends with him saying he is going to convince Brown Ben to rejoin Dany. My theory is that Dany will accept them, however, will kill Brown Ben. After all, Jorah did so much for her, and she still exiled him, so why tolerate a proven turncoat (especially with shavepate whispering in her ear).
My theory is that, slowly but surely, Tyrion will greatly impress Dany with his wit, knowledge, and brutal honesty, and I think will perhaps put him in charge of the Second Sons. (I also think he will get to ride Viserion, but that is for another post)

The foundation for this theory is a little shaky, as it relies on Tyrion convincing Brown Ben to change sides again, as well as Dany returning to Mereen in a timely fashion (100% chance she will come back, but the question is when)

When you think about it, it is pure poetry. Tyrion is the Second Son of Tywin, we have already seen his capability handling warriors and Sellswords (Bronn and the vale tribesmen, also potential allies once they get to Westeros). Shagga isn't much different then Drogo when you think about it, and who knows, it is quite possible that Dany will return to Mereen, not only with Drogon, but with the Dothraki horde she always intended to bring home.

I think this would work out tremendously, and honestly, I really want something good to happen to Tyrion. I want something to go right, for once, cause I really want him to succeed more than anything.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Tyrion has talked his way out of Sky cells, Slavery and execution. It certainly seemed like he was having a bad time of it, but he always managed to come out on top (or at least the middle) I am sure he might talk his way into Dany's confidence, but I'm not so sure he will be able to do the same for Selmy. Barristen knows Tyrion and doubt he would trust him.

I guess we shall see

 

[Stribog]

He is slippery little Imp, isn't he?

 

[Tywin]

Why wouldn't Barristan trust Tyrion? If there's anyone in the world of GRRM that can see through and judge a person based on their actual character I would hope it is Barristan MF Selmy.

"It was like watching a painter... and the only color he used was red." - I love some of the additions to the dialogue in the series.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Thats the problem though. Barristan IS a good judge of character...

I just hope Dany thinks Tywin's death is as significant as Tyrion believes it is. With Barristan's council though, she should see that it is.

 

[Needle]

I think BFS will distrust Tyrion but I am actually counting on him "knowing" him. Tyrion was a child or away for most of the goings on. Once he arrives in KL, he tried to rein in Joff, both in private and in public. He publicly went against Joff. He protected Sansa. He cleaned up the gold cloaks. I don't remember just how much of this BFS was still there for, but some of it for sure, he told Dany that he came back into KL after he was run out.

He will distrust him but he will listen as well, and in the end bow to his Queen!

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I always got the impression that BFS was already gone when Tyrion showed up, but I could be wrong. He did go back after being run out, and we have no clear line on what exactly he did and how long he stayed, so i could be, and hope I am, wrong, and that Barristen knows the extent of Tyrion's abilities and trust..worthy..ness...

What we do know that Barristen went to Illyrio (I think Varys had something to do with that but can't remember exactly)and illyrio sent him to Dany.

We also know that Varys sent Tyrion to Dany via Illyrio. Maybe just that is enough to make Barristen trust Tyrion.