A potentially silly question about submissions...

[Andrew Shaw]

... but I'll ask it anyway.

Hi all. I'm a newbie to the boards, so go easy on me.

I've just finished my first novel, and am now at the stage where I've formatted it ready for submission and am about to start contacting agents, and this strange question has popped up in my head.

When writing, purely as a guide for myself so I know how much I've written and what it looks like, I've set Word to standard paperback dimensions and have chosen a font/point that to my mind would seem appropriate. It seemed like a good idea at the time, and it's helped me with pace and structure.
Basically my 'master copy' is as it would appear in paperback print, 24 pages per chapter, 960 pages long in total.
I also have the copy formatted for submission - that's about twice the length due to the double-line-spacing and such.

Now... if an agent is wanting 2 or 3 chapters/50 pages, obviously they'd need to be correctly formatted, but would I submit 50ish pages as measured by the master copy, or as measured by the fully formatted version?
2 or 3 chapters is 48 or 72 paperback pages, but 96 or 144 formatted pages, whereas 50 pages fully formatted is only one whole chapter.

Hopefully you can see the dilemma. I don't want to overwhelm someone with far more paper than they want, but neither do I want to not submit enough.

Perhaps its my curse for overthinking at the start? Hopefully someone here can give me a little bit of a pointer?

Thanks in advance.

Andrew

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Hi Andrew, welcome to the Chrons. It's not a silly question, a lot of us are at that stage.

Generally the format is double spaced and a standard font such as times size 12. new page per chapter, and breaks indicated by the # key.

I think agents frown on single spaced as it doesn't leave room for notes, and will maybe take it as an opportunity to say you haven't researched the market? A lot of the agents have websites now with submission guidelines, if not I've always found the Writers and Artists handbook not a bad place to start.

Often they'll look for a synopsis and the first 3 chapters, so this isn't affected by the type face, if that makes sense?

Good luck.

 

[Ursa major]

The agent wouldn't be considering your non-standard paper and margins at all, but would expect something based on the industry standard in that country. (Unless, of course, they specify something different, in which case you'd follow their guidelines to the letter.)

So if an agent in the UK is asking for fifty pages and says nothing else about the formatting, you'd supply 50 single-sided pages, with at least one inch (2.54 cm) margins and double-spaced lines, in either 12-point Courier or 12-point Times New Roman. Chapters would start on a new page, and sections within chapters would be split by a blank line (but marked with a # or * if the blank line is the first or last line on a page). Pages must be numbered, give your name and the title of the book; they must not be bound (or kept together with a paper clip) and your contact details should be on the first page.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

When they say they want to look at fifty pages, they mean fifty pages as formatted for submissions.

 

[The Judge]

If they ask for 50 pages, they will want 50 pages in the format they expect -- ie double spaced, 1 inch margins and the rest of it.

However, and please don't take this the wrong way, if you have just finished your first novel I doubt very much that you are ready to submit it quite yet. I don't know how many drafts you have gone through, or how many people have read it -- people who know what they are talking about, not friends and family (unless, of course, they themselves are copy editors or accomplished writers) -- but most of us who aren't geniuses need a great many drafts and a great deal of outside help to get a first novel up to scratch.

My advice is for you to put your submission plans on hold for a few months, and in the meantime work your way through the Aspiring Writers section here, and in particular Critiques, and join in with us. As and when you've got your 30 posts, put part of your opening chapter up for critique and see how we react. If we fall over ourselves to praise it, then you may indeed be ready. If we find things which need to be improved, then you know you have to make some adjustments before submitting.


EDIT: everyone leapt in and answered the original question already... Must type faster!

 

[Andrew Shaw]

Thanks for all the replies. All gratefully received.

To clarify, whatever I submit would be fully formatted. The other stuff was just how I write, for my own benefit. I'll definitely be scouring very intently through the forums here over the coming however long it takes to scour through them.

 

[Gary Compton]

Yeah Andrew. Don't make the mistake others have made by submitting too early. You may end up disappointed.

Take your time, writing is a marathon and not a hundred yard dash

 

[RJM Corbet]

Thanks for all the replies. All gratefully received.

To clarify, whatever I submit would be fully formatted. The other stuff was just how I write, for my own benefit. I'll definitely be scouring very intently through the forums here over the coming however long it takes to scour through them.

That's the thing, you don't have to format it. The publisher will do all that. You just have to present it neatly typed in Times or Courier 12pt, with wide margins, double spaced with paragraph breaks, not indents, on foolscap size etc, as others have said.

You've come to the right place

 

[Warren_Paul]

The question has already been answered here, but I'm just going to throw my 2c in on the other topic raised.

Have you let a beta-reader, or three, read the book, Andrew? I'd HIGHLY recommend you do so before you consider submitting it. You only get ONE chance to win over agents/publishers, so you have to make sure your submission is the best you can make it. You cannot resubmit it again, unless they specifically asked for you to revise and resubmit. If they didn't ask you to resubmit, your submission will likely go straight in the bin without being reconsidered.

As others have said, hang around here and learn from GWD and Critiques. If you don't have beta-readers yet, and want people to read through your book to make sure it's ready for submission, don't be afraid to ask those you have gotten to know and are comfortable with sharing your work to. Some of us are always keen to help other people with their WIP by beta-reading them, but of course you would be expected to return the favour at some point too.


EDIT: reworded for clarification.

 

[Bowler1]

Andrew the advice you’re getting here is good. I would delay just a little and take advantage of the critiques section on Chrons. It won’t cost you anything and may prove very useful and at this stage what’s another week or two?

 

[RJM Corbet]

... To clarify, whatever I submit would be fully formatted ...

Unless you're talking about formatting your own work for e publishing?

Because everything that's being said here applies to submitting a manuscrpit to a literary agent for print publishing ...

 

[Susan Boulton]

The other posters have given you the basic submission format you need, but I can't stress enough for you to double check the agents/publishers own guidelines if they have them on their websites. It is important that you send only what they request in the manner that want it. In many ways look on it as a test. A test that you can pay attention and follow directions.

 

[Triceratops]

Spend equal fervor on your synopsis and query, since you'll no doubt be sending that along. Find several Betas for them, and fine-tune them to a luster. If an agent can't get through your synopsis or query, with interest, he/she won't be compelled to read any further.

chris