Strong Female Characters*

[allmywires]

*kudos to anyone who gets the Kate Beaton reference.

I come with this article from io9.com: http://io9.com/5912366/why-i-write-strong-female-characters

Somewhat of a long read, but worthwhile. A male author talking about his characters, specifically, his Strong Female Characters, and how people often comment upon it. To quote: 'Why do [male authors] default to a shorthand, lazy equation, where strong equals b*tch?'

So my real question to you is: when you're writing your female characters, do you take special consideration of them because of their gender? Do you find it easier to write men or women, and is that because you identify more with your own gender? DO you avoid the damsel in distress trope, or do you embrace its value to the story?

And do you default to 'strong = b*tch', whether consciously or unconsciously?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I hope anyone having read mine would say that the central female character is neither a bitch, nor weak. In fact, she's turning into the most interesting character in the books and more and more scenes are shifting to her point of view. But, it's not about her being a female, just that its the way she is. I don't see the whole distinction, really, people are who they are. My male protagonist is very far from the chisel chinned hero cliche, so, too, my female protagonist (see, she's got herself elevated to protagonist now) is no cliched bitch.

I am slowly realising that the lack of cliche may make it less than universally popular, but hey ho, noone I've ever known is actually so rounded they are cliched, not in real life. *raises champage supernova toast to AMW for an interesting post*

 

[HoopyFrood]

Just popping in to say I have a great deal of respect for Greg Rucka, he helped shaped my favourite comic book character and generally did a fantastic job in an industry that does have a hell of a lot of problems when it comes to women (the characters and the readers alike). Plus he can spin a damn good storyline.

(Also, as to Kate Beaton -- I have both my boobs and butt in the frame, I am a Strong Female Character!)


Answer to the question, I can't say I have ever written gender, not consciously, anyway (but there's a whole kettle of fish). I never think "well, here's a guy, so he'd..." I've had probably the typical, driven, stoic police officer type, but that was in a story where the 'villain' was a mid-twenties male who was utterly dependent on his supercomputer companion, probably wouldn't say boo to a goose and tended to get rather hysterical.

My women probably default to a little bit kick-ass and headstrong, because I often write in first person and there's no doubt a lot of wishful personality channelling

Mind you, that was before I got heavily into poststructuralism, so I'd probably subvert gender, sex and sexuality all over the place now. Trans*, queer, pansexual, cis, I'd like to write every kind I can.

 

[Mouse]

I love men. Men are the best. That is all.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Yes great questions Allmywires,

I think there could be quite a few reasons where strong=bitch arises.

It could be that the male writer has an incomplete understanding of the opposite sex, so has to fall back to torn and worn out cliches.

Perhaps he lacks the imagination to do anything other than a hard-boiled masculine world and hence the only strong role that a successful woman can attain success in, he thinks, has to be a bitch.

Or perhaps, he's having a lot of fun writing a flawed evil bitch. Sure it's a cliche but she gets great lines! Oh and probably some latent sexual submissiveness

---

When it comes to me I'd like to think that I always approach the character as a person first and then 'complicate' him/her/it with gender - of whatever sort - after the flaws and wrinkles are in. At least I hope I do.

Definitely try my hardest to avoid such things as the damsel in distress or the hooker with the heart of gold etc...

This is sort of an issue in my current WiP, because I've deliberately rearranged and changed the gender heirarchy and politics - but at least that means that I sit down hard and think how all the characters should behave in the different roles that this society brings up, and hence I'm hoping I leave cliches unused.

On top of this, at the end of the day, they are still biologically women and men. And the third grouping I invented

 

[Mouse]

Ok serious now. I do prefer writing men. I have no idea why - like I've said in other threads where this has come up, I guess men just interest me more.

I do love writing bitches though. I have one character who's a stuck up, sex-mad, bisexual bitch who gets off on torture. She also loves horses and yoga - she teaches kids to ride and hand-reared a baby bunny she rescued from an animal testing place. She self harms. She's not a fighter, but she'd claw out someone's eyes if they looked at her the wrong way.

 

[allmywires]

*raises champage supernova toast to AMW for an interesting post*

*Chinks glass, puts on a bit of Oasis*

(Also, as to Kate Beaton -- I have both my boobs and butt in the frame, I am a Strong Female Character!)

I love Kate Beaton! I'm sad she doesn't update Hark! A Vagrant very much any more.

You see, I have a problem with my female characters. Like Mouse, I really like writing men. But only men of a certain type: I enjoy exploiting the pressures society put on men, how they think they should behave, and how this affects them and how they really feel. I don't write them as crybabies, but I give them ~emotions~. Often a lot more than their female counterparts.

I worry my females come off as bitchy, one-dimensional, harsh and cold. (Just to be clear, I'm a female too, so I'm having the reverse problem of what I posted about). I hate weak females, so I always try to make mine strong: to do what I would do if I were as hypothetically smart or brave or savvy as they are. I just can't seem to distinguish the line between 'smart, sassy and confident' and 'total psycho bitch' (I did not realise that word wasn't censored on here! )

You see, I can write smart and sassy men, and cold and calculating women...but I can't switch them up.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Ok just to see where you are in relation to my headspace.

(Perhaps not a good example for you youngsters, but for those that watched 90s telly...)

Agent Scully from the X-files. Strong or Weak? Bitch or not-Bitch?

 

[Sapheron]

In my opinion, I've never had too much trouble with gender. One is pretty similar to the other from my point of view. At least, in terms of writing from their point of view, anyway. Perhaps thats my subconscious trying to tell me things. Perhaps I'm deluded, and my female characters are terrible. I guess we'll never really know...

 

[Glitch]

I don't know if I'm good at writing women, men or neither! But I write characters with the intention of growing them in some way.

Strong doesn't equal bitch. If a man has to back down and defer to a strong woman he might call her a bitch; but that's his viewpoint and not necessarily how you would write her

You see, I can write smart and sassy men, and cold and calculating women...but I can't switch them up.

Have you tried writing gender neutral? Write a bio for your character; and then work out based on their past experiences how would they react to your new situations.

I have one character who's a stuck up, sex-mad, bisexual bitch who gets off on torture....she'd claw out someone's eyes if they looked at her the wrong way.

Note to self. Be careful critiquing Mouse's work - Aren't all characters a reflection of the author?

 

[Myra]

In my opinion, 'Never have a man do a woman's job' Just kidding!

In a lot of books I have read, even the damsel in distress is a jaguar underneath waiting to be unleashed and she saves the men a few times (Take the film 'Your Highness'; it may be a comedy and completely mental, but it has a strong female character). Then there are those females that are written as proper 'Oh no...whatever shall I do? Where's my knight in shining armour?'

I reckon females should be given more credit. We have nails (in some cases) and b***h fights our our speciality

Then again I have never really been all that good at writing men, but when I do I try to make them just as good as female characters.

For example I have two main protagonists in my story, one male and one female and they are the leading roles. The female has her Damsel in Distress moments, but my male has his Dude in Distress moments too to balance it out, but they both have a major role each with their own strengths and weaknesses

If I was to choose the easiest to write though I would probably say women because I am one and so I can understand how our minds work...

 

[Galacticdefender]

Princess Leia from Star Wars is a great example of a strong female character, though I'm not sure if she doesn't fall into the B*tch category every once in a while.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Princess Leia from Star Wars is a great example of a strong female character, though I'm not sure if she doesn't fall into the B*tch category every once in a while.

Most of the time no, but here is the thing, everyone whether male of female falls into that category every once and awhile. There are things that rub us up the wrong way and we go from being nice, to being aggressive about it. Being bitchy isn't how we'd normally act, but every now and then we do - it's normal.

Sometimes bitchy is just the right way to act in certain situations.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Most of my characters have always been men (hmm, that sounds like some of them used to be, but aren't anymore, which isn't the case). I suppose it's probably because I really don't relate to women. I don't do "woman things", I was raised as a tomboy with three older brothers, and I just don't think in "woman".

My WIP has three MC, two boys and a girl, and the girl is the toughest of the bunch. She takes her brother down and sits on his head, shoots lions, and generally takes charge.

 

[allmywires]

Ok just to see where you are in relation to my headspace.

(Perhaps not a good example for you youngsters, but for those that watched 90s telly...)

Agent Scully from the X-files. Strong or Weak? Bitch or not-Bitch?

Showing my age here VB, since I was born in the 90s (closer to the 80s than the 00s though!).

I can think of a strong female character that I think was executed very well and didn't fall into strong=bitch, and that is Sarah Lund from the Danish TV series Forbrydelsen (the Killing, not the dreadful US remake). She was sometimes cold, but she was dedicated to her job: not to the detriment of her personal life (at least in the beginning). It didn't dissolve into a love story. It was about her and the case.

Maybe that's the problem: we're more tempted to write love stories based around female characters because they are traditional sex objects. (Though I feel the tides are starting to turn on that!)

 

[Anne Lyle]

Most of my characters have always been men (hmm, that sounds like some of them used to be, but aren't anymore, which isn't the case). I suppose it's probably because I really don't relate to women. I don't do "woman things", I was raised as a tomboy with three older brothers, and I just don't think in "woman".

Same here - from a very young age I preferred hanging out with boys as I rejected stereotypical female toys such as dolls. Hence my female MC in my current series is a tomboy - or rather a girl who dressed as a boy for safety and then found she rather enjoyed it

Perhaps for the same reason, I'm less comfortable writing female characters. I worry they'll either be too much like me (as with my female MC), or mere caricatures of more "average" women. However one stereotype I do consciously avoid is the "kickass warrior babe", who always strikes me as more of a male wish-fulfilment than a "strong woman".

 

[Boneman]

Hmm... this thread made me think, which isn't good at this time of the morning. But, excellent question (and who's Kate Beaton?) and all I can say, on analysing my own writing, is that my female characters all have a vulnerability; it doesn't make them seek a hero to protect them, but they do team up with them. One kick-ass heroine hates killing people, but has a burning anger for justice, and an incredible ability to seek it out. Oh, and they all fall in love at some stage... aaahhh...

 

[Ursa major]

and who's Kate Beaton?

I don't know, but she sounds like some kind of masochist.


Almost by definition, we SFF writers (aspiring or not) are trying to describe people (of whatever species or type) that we've never seen. Given this, there will always be a temptation to draw on stereotypes based on what we've seen or read. Which is bad enough, but made more obvious because of the style most of us (have to) adopt, i.e. giving the reader insights into the characters of our... er... characters.

So if we are unable to break free of caricatures of real people (of whichever gender) with whom we interact every day, we're going to have trouble with anything out of the ordinary, if only because many of our potential readers will have seen the very same stereotypes that we're trying, and probably failing, to resurrect.

 

[HareBrain]

However one stereotype I do consciously avoid is the "kickass warrior babe", who always strikes me as more of a male wish-fulfilment than a "strong woman".

I think it's both wish-fulfilment and a way of making women less threatening by making them more like men, effectively empowering them as individuals (as necessitated by the need to promote equality) but neutering them as a sex. I'd be interested to discuss what has been driving the popularity of this character type (and I must confess I'm not immune to its attraction as a consumer, though I've never written one).

 

[allmywires]

.. who's Kate Beaton?

Webcomic-ist and generally amusing person. http://harkavagrant.com/

Almost by definition, we SFF writers (aspiring or not) are trying to describe people (of whatever species or type) that we've never seen. Given this, there will always be a temptation to draw on stereotypes based on what we've seen or read.

True...but isn't the onus on us to turn those stereotypes around? I've always thought of SF/F as a medium for commenting on modern-day life, or government, or whatever, by taking that template and transporting it to an unfamiliar setting: without the trappings of familiarity, one is better places to pass rational judgement on the perceived wrongs of society. (Whoa, that was a bit deep...)

So we can give our female characters power and dominance in a male world, and it's a comment on how females can't do it in our own.

I think it's both wish-fulfilment and a way of making women less threatening by making them more like men, effectively empowering them as individuals (as necessitated by the need to promote equality) but neutering them as a sex. I'd be interested to discuss what has been driving the popularity of this character type (and I must confess I'm not immune to its attraction as a consumer, though I've never written one).

Yes, but the problem with this is that the woman is often portrayed as overly (I cringe to use this but...) feminist: she often can't stand men (probably from a deep-rooted daddy-issue) and if she does engage sexually with them it's as an object, not a romantic interest. She's the opposite of the damsel in distress, but just as much of a cardboard character. I don't think it goes any way towards advancing females in fiction; in fact, it's probably a step back.