Dashes and Semi-Colons

[Tecdavid]

I'm just wondering when it's best to place dashes and semi-colons in narrative, or dialogue. I've always been a little rusty on how strict their rules of usage are, so I thought to paste a few lines from my WiP which include them, and see whether anyone considers them unnecessary, unwelcome, or downright incorrect.

--

Oh, it was a prosperous time for the city indeed; Summer was when the streets wore their bright colours best,

It was probably the hundredth time she’d listed off his shortcomings, and she hadn’t a clue why she did it – it only made her angrier.

He had always stood to the notion that any book was worth a reread – there was always a secret or two an author thought they could hide,

He was larger than many he’d met so far; a warrior’s build, one that looked more than capable of wielding that broadsword the way he did, and tall.

--

There are times when I even wonder whether a comma or period would replace a few dash and semi-colon instances better, and it's all getting a bit frustrating. I've often thought that dashes and semi-colons can be used interchangeably in some cases, but... well, I suppose it pays to make sure.

 

[HareBrain]

I think there might be a post in the Toolbox thread about this. For me, your first three examples are the right choice, but for the fourth I would go with a dash (or even a colon) because the bit after the semi-colon isn't capable of being an independent sentence, but is only defining in more detail what came before.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Yes, the first three are correct, except that you don't capitalize the second half after the semi-colon (summer). And the fourth is not a good spot for a semi-colon. I think HB is correct that a colon would be better, as I don't like the idea of a dash there, either.

 

[Vertigo]

I'm no expert, but I would have used a period for the first and either a period or a comma for the second. The third I'm happier with as it is an aside.

I've been worying about that fourth one for a while and actually I think dashes are what you need:

He was larger than many he’d met so far -- a warrior’s build -- one that looked more than capable of wielding that broadsword the way he did, and tall.

Though it depends a little on whether the "one" is refering to the warrior or his build, which is maybe a subtle problem anyway. I almost want to put in an ellipsis before that "and tall." But that may just be the way I'm reading it.

Also, I know it's not what you asked about, but in this bit:

one that looked more than capable of wielding that broadsword the way he did

The "looked more than capable" suggested that we (or the narrator) haven't yet seen him wield his sword, but "the way he did" suggests we have seen him wield it. That just pulled me up a little.

 

[Tecdavid]

Thanks for the answers, folks. This is one subject that always confuses me a little.
And the "one" is referring to his build, Vertigo. As for the sentence, the POV is of a character who's just met this "warrior", having watched him display an impressive round of swordplay mere moments before. The "looked more than capable" refers to the notion that he could probably lift a sword twice the size, if he wanted.
There isn't any context in this tiny excerpt though, of course, so maybe it reads a little strangely. Sorry about that.

 

[HareBrain]

You could use a full stop for the first. The trouble with using a full stop in the second is that you then have two "its" very close together. Visually, it's a bit of a mess, in my view -- the dash at least separates them. The comma has this problem too, and the result is also a comma splice, which should be committed sparingly -- and I don't think works in this case anyway, as the pause isn't long enough.

 

[Tecdavid]

Do you mean that it's a bit of mess the way things stand, or that inserting a period or comma would make it one?

 

[HareBrain]

I'd probably try to avoid having the word "it" twice in a row, but given that you have, I think it would help to physically separate them as much as possible, hence the dash.

she hadn’t a clue why she did it -- it only made her angrier.

she hadn’t a clue why she did it. It only made her angrier.

she hadn’t a clue why she did it, it only made her angrier.


For me, the dash is the only one where my eye doesn't trip up on the two "its". But that might be only me. (Though the last is a comma splice.)

 

[Tecdavid]

Hmm... I'll need to keep that in mind, then. Even when proof-reading and redrafting, there's bumps and potholes in narration that keep evading you.

 

[Ursa major]

I think there might be a post in the Toolbox thread about this.

I had quick look and didn't see anything there. There has been at least one thread on this subject, I'm sure; probably one about hyphens and dashes.


Regarding the double is:

It was probably the hundredth time she’d listed off his shortcomings, and she hadn’t a clue why she did it – it only made her angrier.

First off, you don't need to replace the dash with another punctuation mark; the word, as, will do:

It was probably the hundredth time she’d listed off his shortcomings, and she hadn’t a clue why she did it as it only made her angrier.

You could put a comma between the the first 'it' and the 'as', I suppose.

To get rid of the double 'it', replace the first** occurrence with a 'this':

It was probably the hundredth time she’d listed off his shortcomings, and she hadn’t a clue why she did this as it only made her angrier.

For me, the sentence reads better if the ', and' is replaced with a semicolon:

It was probably the hundredth time she’d listed off his shortcomings; she hadn’t a clue why she did this as it only made her angrier.

** - This also works if you keep the first 'it' but replace the second one with 'this'.

 

[prizzley]

Oh, it was a prosperous time for the city indeed; Summer was when the streets wore their bright colours best,

It was probably the hundredth time she’d listed off his shortcomings, and she hadn’t a clue why she did it – it only made her angrier.

He had always stood to the notion that any book was worth a reread – there was always a secret or two an author thought they could hide,

He was larger than many he’d met so far, with a warrior’s build, one that looked more than capable of wielding that broadsword the way he did, and tall.

-

I'm no expert either - but I have some books. I think a semi-colon would work in the the first three examples. Or you could use a colon in the first, because the second part explains the first. Personally, I'd use a comma and "with" in the last example. I think it flows better. And being picky, if you deleted "she did it" you wouldn't have it-it.

I've no problem with dashes, but I think they work better in dialogue.

There's a lot of advice out there; I use:

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation_rules.asp

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/dashes-colons-commas.aspx

 

[Tecdavid]

Thanks for those, Prizzley. Those pages helped clear up a few questions I had about punctuation and grammar in general.

 

[Tecdavid]

Thanks for those, Prizzley. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I was away.

 

[Vertigo]

Then I guess your ghost must have replied for you!

 

[Ursa major]

So there's a good chance that spirits were involved...?

 

[Tecdavid]

... 'The hell did I manage that?

 

[Abernovo]

Is this proof of multiple worlds, Tecdavid? The alternate you stepped in for an hour?

 

[Tecdavid]

It's not enough for that otherworldly jerk to take the change from my pocket and speed down the motorway with my face on his license, but he has to beat me to the punch in my Chrons posts too!?

I must've forgotten I'd thanked Prizzley before I went on holiday, and didn't bother to check the latest reply when I got back. XD

 

[Vertigo]

Hehe - you're losing it Tecdavid!

But don't worry I lost it ages ago and have never missed it!