Supporting characters to the POV's

[Gary Compton]

I've been getting feedback from my BETA's and comments on some of the non-POV charcters has got me thinking.

So you have your protagonist, your antagonist and three or four of their merry men who will all, at some stage, have the reigns of the POV. So I understand about getting into their heads, feel what they feel...blah de blah

But what about the others? I have a detective, he's written in first person. Then there's his no2 and the other detectives. I never planned for any of them to have the POV so will they remain shallow or do you develop them through the main POV?

How can you do that? - any examples post here

In well written books do you have what I would call supporting characters who remain, as Crispy called them, cyphers.

Interested in any comments/advice as usual.

 

[Ursa major]

In real life - which is (usually) in first person present - one never gets to read the minds of the other characters (which may be just as well). That doesn't stop them being three dimensional people to us.

The trick, therefore, is to bring the non-PoV characters to life. (Yes: easier said than done.) The reader doesn't have to have access to their thoughts for this to happen.

 

[Gary Compton]

So the only way to do that is through their dialogue in response to the POV?

 

[Ursa major]

Their dialogue and their behaviour. Inevitably, some characters are going to say one thing, but believe (as revealed through their actions**) another.







** - Though actions can be misinterpreted: think of all those crime dramas where we viewers "know" what's going on, only it turns out later that we didn't.

 

[Darth Angelus]

So the only way to do that is through their dialogue in response to the POV?

Or their mannerisms, their actions, or whatever else you could think of that real people could have been known through, I think.

 

[Gary Compton]

So, really as the Beta's have only read 8-9 chapters.

Some of the supporting characaters might have only said 2 or 3 lines of dialogue, so they would be 2-dimensional until they fully develop?

 

[mithril]

Or maybe with how the POV characters react emotionally to the supporting characters... I'm no expert but seems to me that in real life, we take at least 3 aspects into account when forming an opinion about someone

1. How does he/she reacts to me/things I say/do?
2. How do his/her words/actions make me feel?
3. How do they react/act towards a 3rd person?

Does that help?

PS - Ursa and Darth posted before I could.. but in response to your question, if the supporting characters have only 2-3 line dialogs and are not important enough to be thought about by any of the POVs then I believe it should be ok if they are not fully developed...

 

[Erin99]

Your protag's thoughts about supporting characters - either right or wrong - also help to colour a secondary character. Part of how we like a character is by seeing them through your protag's eyes; if our Hero likes him/her, he must be okay, mustn't he? (Even if he turns out not to be.)

Similarly, if a secondary character appears nice to one POV character but not nice to another, readers will might have a dilemma about what they feel for said side character - is he conniving, misunderstood, hard-to-know, or does his personality just clash with the POV character who he dislikes? That sort of dilemma may be a good thing, so your secondary characters leap off the page and appear grey instead of black or white.

Etc.

 

[Ursa major]

That sort of dilemma may be a good thing, so your secondary characters leap off the page and appear grey instead of black or white.

But with luck, we won't see this grey person through the eyes of fifty different POV characters.

​

 

[Gary Compton]

Maybe I should call the book, "Fifty shades of grey characters."

 

[Ursa major]

You're unfortunate, Gary, in that your novel is more occult than straight SF.

As I'm writing SF, I can thus have... er... rounder characters in my forthcoming, alien visitors, book...







...Fifty Shapes of Grey....

 

[The Judge]

The trick to writing rounded characters, I think, is to remember that they are the protagonists in their own story. They have to have their own thoughts, ambitions, motives, loves, hates, as much as your main character. You, as their author, have to know what makes them tick even if you don't show all of it on the page -- in the same way thay you have to know how to get from the Old Bailey to NSY even if you never have anyone walk the route.

A person who is like an extra on a TV series doesn't need to be 3 dimensional -- the members of the jury are colourless, because if you paint them too coloured you take away the impact of the judge (who is, of course, the most important person in the court room). But the opposing counsel who has a speaking part has to be written as if he is in control of his own life -- so he acts according to his nature, not according to your script for him.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Study Dolly Parton songs like ''Me and Little Andy''; ''To Daddy''; ''Jolene''; ''Joshua'' ; ''Daddy Come and Get Me''; ''Backwoods Barbie'' etc remember they are intended to be performed, but she has a Shakespearean ability to draw a character in a few words. Studying her songs doesn't take as long as an entire play.

Jolene the wanton woman out to steal her man with ivory skin, auburn hair and eyes of emerald green.

The big, dark scary man with the dog and the kindly smile. Whilst she tells the story she also reveals a lot about the POV characters.

Me and Little Andy draws several characters. We have the little ragged girl out in the snow who is no more than six or seven. The neglectful abusive parents etc(I won't ruin the end of the story if you don't know it but it needs tissues).

In To Daddy it rounds out two characters, neither of whom are the POV characters.

Another really useful resource is the Bookshelf Muse and their variety of thesaurii. (did I spell that right lol?)

It is possible to give a minor character a rounded feel with little touches of description and dialogue.

 

[Montero]

Read Juliet McKenna's The Thief's Gamble - she draws some vivid bit parts with a few words. (e.g the two women in the antique valuation scene near the beginning - you'll know it when you see it. )

 

[Gary Compton]

Do you think it's worth dropping in the occasional POV that you may not have used?

For example my protagonists no2. I suppose if I did that I could describe what he looked like - his loves and weaknesses from a different POV other than 1st person, which I use.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

It depends on your story and if it needs it I guess You can still build the characters but it will be from the other character's POV.

Using my fantasy (as it is the one I am most familiar with):

Angus is the MC and Narator, he is the king. His wife is the most beautiful woman in the universe; he adores his strong, amazing older brother (Socrates); his brother's partner (Nate) is a fun, big brother type and his father-in-law is a slightly creepy, slightly scary ancient man.

If his brother Socrates was the MC and Narrator, he becomes a schoolmaster who was once crown prince but addicated. We would see more of his neurotic side etc, Angus becomes an annoying kid brother; because he is gay his sister-in-law is fun to be with but there is no adoration in the same way; the big brother type partner becomes a lover and the scary father-in-law becomes close friend and mentor.

I find it interesting to write scenes where they are together from both their POVs just to see the differences. There was one scene where Angus had been in a fight at school was really angry at Socrates and was sulking big time. Socrates on the other hand misread his sulking as misery and was feeling sorry for the pathetic lad that was plotting the best way to break his nose.

 

[The Judge]

Do you think it's worth dropping in the occasional POV that you may not have used?

Only if it adds something to the story. If it's a scene as already written but you'd just be changing the POV, then it could well be a good idea to get a different perspective. If you'd be introducing a new scene just to show the different POV, then probably not.

You don't have to go into the POV, though, to show a character.

For example my protagonists no2. I suppose if I did that I could describe what he looked like - his loves and weaknesses from a different POV other than 1st person, which I use.

Do you mean no 2 would describe the main character and the MC's loves etc? Or he'd describe himself? If the former, it could be useful; if the latter, how would that advance the plot?

 

[Gary Compton]

Do you mean no 2 would describe the main character and the MC's loves etc? Or he'd describe himself? If the former, it could be useful; if the latter, how would that advance the plot?

I wasnt very clear there - was I?

Yes, it's the former. No2 would describe the MC etc

 

[The Judge]

I think that could come over well, then. As long as it's not just a scene describing the main character, of course!