The dreaded splice....

[Jo Zebedee]

I use them sometimes in dialogue, and I'm happy with them there, by and large, as another contraction of speech.

But, if I'm in the close pov of a character and therefore speaking with their direct voice - are comma splices acceptable, or should I be aiming for smoother prose. So, here's an eg:



Lichio waited until they left and limped to the control room. He looked at the comms unit and sat at it, sighing. This was Sonly’s arena, but he had his contacts, he’d have to hope they were enough. He spent a few moments, trying to decide who to contact first. Not Clorinda.





The bit in bold has the dreaded... and I can see an and is smoother in prose, but the version I have is closer to how the character would say it. Any rule about it/ best practice around it?

@Mouse, bold returneth, I had to edit the silly font cos it shrank as usual when I posted. Urgh.

 

[Mouse]

(First of all, I can't see a bit in bold). I use comma splices, I've seen actual real-life published authors use comma splices. I'll continue to use comma splices. In other words, I see no problem. (I'm sure someone'll come along and say they're evil now )

 

[allmywires]

Love them. I think they're invaluable for showing the breakdown of a POV, flowing into a more stream-of-consciousness style. I use it a lot in WIP 2. In fact, I've just written a whole huge chunk that uses literally hundreds of comma splices. Hurrah for comma splices!

I mean, that doesn't make it right, but still - my humble opinion and all that...

 

[Mouse]

@Mouse, bold returneth, I had to edit the silly font cos it shrank as usual when I posted. Urgh.

I could actually work out where it was without the bold - I impressed myself! But, yeah, I think your wee segment works fine there. No problemo.

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

Not so dreaded from where I sit.

 

[Glitch]

They're evil I tell you, evil!

Ok, so judging by recent crit's I'm the last person who should say this. But would a semicolon after 'arena' solve the problem?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I think one (a semi) before the he'd might break the clauses, but it gives a longer pause, and that's where I think my musing is.

If it's a longer pause it threatens to lose the voice of quite a busy character (Lichio). But, does it matter if it's in prose? Should it be the better english and to heck with the voice. That's what I'm scratching my head about. One part of me says yes, the other says I'll sacrifice closeness.

 

[HareBrain]

I'm usually somewhat picky about comma splices, but that one seems fine to me, and I think your reasons for using it are good ones.

 

[ctg]

I would put in a word and there, and get rid of the comma because that's how it feels right to me. The version you have feels wrong, but if it makes you getting closer to your character then leave it in and let the editors to battle over it.

 

[Glitch]

A longer pause after 'arena' doesn't seem wrong to me. It seems as if he's acknowledging this is where Sonly does better, but then he's thinking he can do this too. In context you could be aiming for something else?

 

[chrispenycate]

Hey, I was brought up not to use them, way back when, so they jolt me out of the flow. So I mention them now and again (and again and…). But I do recognise that they are no longer anathema, and have actually mentioned this when condemning them.

Times change; they just leave me behind.

 

[Ursa major]

I use them sometimes in dialogue, and I'm happy with them there, by and large, as another contraction of speech.

But, if I'm in the close pov of a character and therefore speaking with their direct voice - are comma splices acceptable, or should I be aiming for smoother prose. So, here's an eg:

Lichio waited until they left and limped to the control room. He looked at the comms unit and sat at it, sighing. This was Sonly’s arena, but he had his contacts, he’d have to hope they were enough. He spent a few moments, trying to decide who to contact first. Not Clorinda.
​

The bit in bold has the dreaded... and I can see an and is smoother in prose, but the version I have is closer to how the character would say it. Any rule about it/ best practice around it?

In my opinion, writing dialogue isn't really a valid excuse for using a comma splice, as it doesn't change the timing (which is one use of punctuation that's possibly more important in speech than straight narrative). Take your current example, and pretend it's some sort of dialogue:

This was Sonly’s arena, but he had his contacts, he’d have to hope they were enough.

There are two separate sentences here, one composed of the brown text and the blue text, and another composed of the purple text:

1. This was Sonly’s arena, but he had his contacts.
2. He’d have to hope they were enough.

The reader, to make sense of the text, will be involuntarily inserting a pause**, one longer than a comma, whether or not it's written as one sentence or two. Given this, you are at perfect liberty to replace your second comma (and my first full stop) with a semicolon:

This was Sonly’s arena, but he had his contacts; he’d have to hope they were enough.
​

The alternative - which is probably what you're trying to avoid - is to add an 'and':

This was Sonly’s arena, but he had his contacts and he’d have to hope they were enough.
​

or, to make it read better:

This was Sonly’s arena, but he had his contacts and would have to hope they were enough.
​

** - Read your text out aloud: the extra pause - to cope with the change from one sentence to another - should be present when you say it.

 

[Scott R. Forshaw]

I'm with Ursa on this one. The Semi-colon seems the most viable option here. I'm also not too keen on inserting 'and', however. I think it flows much beter without its inclusion.

 

[Galacticdefender]

I would generally just use a period in the OP's case, but really, I don't see why the rules of English have to be so rigid. Unlike the laws of physics, the "laws" of language are a purely human creation, so as far as I'm concerned, do whatever you want, as long as it sounds good.

I'm sure I use comma splices from time to time, but I'm generally too focussed on what I'm writing to actually analyze it with the proper gramattical terms.

 

[Ursa major]

I would generally just use a period in the OP's case, but really, I don't see why the rules of English have to be so rigid. Unlike the laws of physics, the "laws" of language are a purely human creation, so as far as I'm concerned, do whatever you want, as long as it sounds good.

The purpose of grammar is not to make things sound good, but to let a reader/listener know what a writer/speaker means. (It's a communication protocol.) It is true that grammar permits a certain degree of flexibility in the use of punctuation, a flexibility that can be used to indicate the timing, and intended pattern, of written speech.

 

[Galacticdefender]

But I do believe it is a bit pointless when people take it to the extent of gramattical fascism. (A.K.A le grammar nazis)

 

[Ursa major]

Anything taken to extremes is, well, a bit extreme. Saying, "grammar is set in stone, and you should only use it one way, because I say so!" is on a par with "Grammar isn't important; it's your creativity that matters!" in this respect.

As I said, English grammar is really quite flexible, particularly with regard to the use of punctuation - the different types of dashes, the colons and semicolons, the various braces - all of which should enable a writer to be reasonably specific about what their text means and the way they'd prefer it to be read. (A reader can take this on board or not.)

If one wants the text to disappear into the background, allowing the story to completely occupy the foreground, one should avoid grammar that jars (or calls attention to itself), because it can be just as disruptive as obvious factual errors. Of course, if a writer wants the text to call attention to itself, that's fine. The main thing is that the writer knows what they want and is able to achieve it, and not blunder into a writing style that undermines their intentions.

I suspect the passage that began this discussion is meant to focus on relaying the story rather than be prose to be admired purely for its aesthetic qualities. In such a case, grammar that is understood subconsciously (i.e. is reasonably close to standard grammar) would probably be the best to use.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Aesthetic definitely wasn't the intention and I know the semi is the correct English. The question I'm asking is should we treat close internal thoughts as dialogue or prose.

 

[Hex]

Not to sit on the fence or anything (but it's such a comfy one) but a little of both?

Your position on the prose/ dialogue one is one of the style you choose, I think. So if you're using a dialoguey voice and it's Lichio's and he runs his sentences together, then that's perfectly respectable.

I find it hard to judge on comma splices. I'm noticing them because of the Chrons. I'd say -- use the odd one where you feel it adds to the POV flavour, but not so many it looks like you don't know what they are. Question every single one -- which I'm sure you do already.

 

[Toby Frost]

I think unless they are obviously intended - in that the writing is either speech or set very deeply in a character's POV - they look amateurish, if only because comma splices are a common but basic mistake in day-to-day English.