Creating a realistic fantasy currency

[Brian G Turner]

One of the problems I've encountered with my WIP is developing a realistic currency based on a general sense of mediaeval realism.

Oh, identifying economic trends and factoring in inflation and currency debasement during periods of war and hardship is one thing - putting a price on everything that works in a consistent and referential manner is another.

Of course, everything varies according to the historical period being considered, and changes to farming, industrialisation, and labour changes affects everything.

However, my current favoured method runs as follows:

1. Take any price in GBP;
2. Divide this by 100;
3. If the amount is less than £10, designate it as measured in copper units;
4. If the amount is between £10-£100, designate it as measured in silver units;
5. If the amount is over £100, designate it as measured in gold units.

For example:

- a loaf or bread comes in at around £1. Following the system above, it would cost around 1 copper piece;

- two nights at a good London hotel might come in at £150/night, or 2 x £150 - using the system above, 3 silver pieces;

- a decent week's pay may come in at around £1200/month - as above, that means 12 silver pieces a month;

- an Audi TT Coupe comes in at around £25,000 - as above, that means 250 gold pieces;

- a house might come in at around £300,000 - as above, that means 3,000 gold pieces.

So far I find it lends a kind of consistency that I find easy to work with, and has an identifiable consistency. I can apply it to goods and services, and so far *appears* to work reasonably well.

However, can anyone see a general problem with this? Accepting, of course, that it is subject to the normal variations and differences across ancient and mediaeval periods, as well as the cultural differences between those and modern times.

I'm just looking for a system that is not simply consistent, but also has a sense of relativism that can be related to.

Of course, naming the different base metal coins is a matter in itself.

Anyone see any obvious flaws in this, though??

 

[Grinnel]

Anyone see any obvious flaws in this, though??

Other than the fact that Canada hasn't dealt in pounds sterling for a century or so, meaning I have no idea of the values you posted, I'm good(ish). This was also big a problem in the medevil (medevel? I have no spell chcker on this) world.

What is the value of one coin to another? 100 coppers = 10 silver = 1 gold was not a system used by anyone. Things were much more complicated.

You can also bet that coins from certain countries would be worth more than the equivalent coin (even of the same weight and metal) from another country, and those relative values could change depending on where you travelled and the political situation of the day.

In our world the Church developed a banking system by selling forgiveness at a standard rate. In fantasy worlds, that might be difficult if the cultures are polytheistic (unless everyone believed in the same god of commerce.)

Heros travelling from one place to another would find it impossible to carry the 3,000 gold pieces it would take to buy a nice home, nevermind the palace the princess they just rescued would want to live in. 200 gold coins (even made mostly of silver) would weigh over 10 pounds. That's a pretty heavy pouch or sack somewhere.

Carrying your wealth in jems or jewellery will have its own problems. What is an inkeeper going to do with a small ruby? How does he know you didn't just hand him a shiny rock from a nearby streambed? How do you give change for a tiarra?

The heros could travel with their money and goods in a ship, but that risks everything to pirates and even to some filching by the crew.

In a world that involves a lot of trading and travel, banks and moneychangers would handle your large amounts of cash, for a significant fee, of course. You would carry letters from one city to another that would allow the bearer (uh-oh, see the problem?) a line of credit of X thousand gold coins, or imperials, or yards of silk. Withdrawing this would cost money as well. (Our modern bankers have been learning from their ancient predicessors).

What happens if the bank is robbed or goes bankrupt investing YOUR gold on a con game? (Time for a side quest to get the gold back?)

This is not to take away from the system proposed by I Brian, in fact I quite like it.

This is for you writers of fantasy to add even MORE problems to the woes of your travelling heros, who in most books I have read always seem to have exact change.

 

[Gumboot]

I would use the Medieval Source Book. It's a great resource for that kind of thing. Some things don't translate so evenly. For example a tower in a castle wall in the 14th Century cost about 300 pounds (900 gold coins).

A craftman's modest house (with workshop etc) might only cost 10-15 pounds, while a good quality Destrier could cost 80 pounds or more.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

They used to physically cut pennies into halves and quarters (although I don't think the pennies were copper). So some things, rather than costing x many coppers, might cost half or a quarter silver (which would be more lightweight and convenient than carrying around a pouch full of copper coins).

But there was a banking system, so that a wealthy character wouldn't necessarily have to carry bags of money with him when traveling from country to country. Not if he had some sort of letter of credit that would be recognized by bankers where he was going.

 

[Grinnel]

But there was a banking system, so that a wealthy character wouldn't necessarily have to carry bags of money with him when traveling from country to country. Not if he had some sort of letter of credit that would be recognized by bankers where he was going.

There was not an effective european banking system until into the renissance period. Even then, values were extremely confusing and fluctualting. Florins, marks, pounds, etc, etc, etc.

It is possible, however, that goblin bankers have overcome this confusion.

Side note: A common scam for the period was to put several gold coins in a pouch and handle it roughly (maybe play football with it). Some of the soft gold would desintigrate to dust, leaving you a pouch full used but perfectly good gold coins (unless a moneychanger weighed them) and gold dust, worth it's weight in gold, in the bottom of the bag.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

There was not an effective european banking system until into the renissance period.

I suppose it depends on what you expect of a banking system before you consider it effective. There were merchant-bankers in Italy that formed partnerships all over Europe as early as the 13th century, so whether the protagonist could make use of such systems would largely depend on where they started out and where they were going.

And considering it would be an invented world, and not our own, the centers could be wherever the writer wanted them, and transactions carried out without the use of goblins.

 

[Grinnel]

Without Goblins? Surely you can't be serious!

I bow to your superior history. I was simply trying to make the world more difficult for heros.

Perhaps I need to seek counciling...

 

[Boneman]

Problem is, there will be things that are cheaper than one copper (if a loaf of bread is one copper, what's a bag of sherbert?), you'll have to move into half-coppers, quarter-coppers, and farthings.... So one way, which I think you've done, but maths was always a weak point in my schooldays, is 100 copper = 1 silver; 100 silver = 1 Gold; 100 gold = ?

A one copper piece would be very small, the size of a groat, or it wouldn't be worth minting. Naturally, you can have 5 copper pieces, 10, 20 and so on - the same with the silver and gold.

 

[Grinnel]

Problem is, there will be things that are cheaper than one copper (if a loaf of bread is one copper, what's a bag of sherbert?).

As mentioned by Teresa Edgerton, coins were sometimes cut (a ha'penny or half penny) in addition, it is a fantasy world. If you want to have a really, really poor class you might go into tin pieces or even wooden (there used to be honest-to-goodness wooden nickles).

Above gold you could have platinum, electrim, and fancy gold pieces with diamond or other gemstones inlayed in the coins themselves.

Being as it is a fantasy world, there are literally no limits. You could have a world where metals are completely made up (a dorian piece) or are avaiable in very different proportions to our world.

Gold is as common as dirt and not well valued while carved coal coins will pay your wages.

(Reminded of an old comic strip- A cave man comes dancing out of a mine shouting "Glass! We've discovered glass!"

A second cave man, looking at the discovery through a jewler's glass says: "Why you ninconpoop! This is an ordinary diamond!")

There are also many real world examples of things other than coins used as the most common means of exchange. At one time the Roman legions were paid in salt-that is actually where the word salary comes from. In British North America the original method of trade involved mostly furs.

If this is all too confusing, simply default to the goblin bankers and they'll explain it to you...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I was simply trying to make the world more difficult for heros.

Oh, in that case, the antagonist could arrange (by various devious means, up to and including threats and coercion) for the hero not to have access to the money he is expecting. And as -- in anticipation of being able to do business with the merchant-bankers or goldsmiths -- he didn't bring enough money with him, he would find himself in all kinds of difficulties.

 

[Abernovo]

Hi, Brian. I think the basic premise for working out a comparative system is okay, although obviously some things may be difficult to convert. I'm not so sure about copper, silver and gold, simply as it sounds a little too regulated for a mediaeval society. That could be me though, and, as you said, the actual naming of the coins is a different matter, anyway.

I'm sure you've already tapped this resource, but I used to look at council rolls in the local library. They were often collected together in book form and I was able to look at several counties' and cities' historical transactions, which gave actual costs and prices.

One thing I would suggest is looking at the relative value of work and food animals. What is the price of one day's labour by a freeman, compared to a day's labour by a skilled artisan, or a day's service from a hired man-at-arms? What is the value of a pig, a goat, a bullock, a milch cow? How many hours (or days) would a person have to work to buy one?

I'd argue that any community not based entirely in money market mentality would still use barter to some degree*, so if you have those values worked out, many others will fall into place.

*I know of doctors who have been paid in eggs or a joint of meat for basic treatment, such as a couple of stitches.

 

[Kylara]

Barter - I love barter, I have a marvelous system of barter that I believe would work, but that is another story...barter - wonderful modern world example - we have chickens horses and cats. When we go away for a couple of days (or a whole holiday ) we ask neighbours to look after the animals. They are paid in eggs. They themselves have two chickens, whilst we have 4 laying hens, (formerly 7 but one died last week) and 4 chicks almost at laying age...so they can take any extra eggs they fancy from ours while we are away and can play with the mohawked chicks. They have small children who help so green eggs and tiny white eggs and normal eggs and spotty chicks with mohawks are an absolute joy to play with.

Also a friend of mine builds fences and XC courses and eats a lot, so we often trade a lower price for fencing for some Sunday all you can eat style lunches...

You'll find that friends/neighbours will probably be far happier to barter than pay for things; we are planning on trading one of the male chicks with a friend for an Arucana hen, instead of paying for it...barter is the "poor mans friend" - what use would a poor farmer have for copper pieces when he could have traded things for bread, eggs, milk? For the richer people money is great, but the lower down the scale the more appealing barter is...

 

[skynes]

Interesting subject.

I think the answer depends on what your goal is and how important it is to the story.

If your story focuses heavily upon traders, bankers, and cash then you'll need a detailed system, going right down to half pennies, tin pieces as others' said. If your story uses money as a means to an end, then all you need is a frame of reference and a conversion rate:

Mention a loaf of bread for 1 cp.
Mention a night at an inn for 5 cp.
Mention the King's reward for capturing some fiend at 10gp, and emphasise how that's more than a year's wages.

Once you demonstrate how big a jump it is from copper to silver, then silver to gold. Like say paying for a night at an inn with 1 sp and the innkeeper being shocked at seeing that kind of money, it doesn't take much for the reader to see how wealthy someone with 10gp would be.

---

I like the real life conversion system, that does create consistent results, and since the reader doesn't need to know where you got the values from, it doesn't matter if they don't know how the £ system works, all they'll see is the coppers, silvers and gold.

 

[Colbey Frost]

You could go the other way and have people pay for things using people's ears or fingernails... this would promote a violent world to play with.

 

[skynes]

You could go the other way and have people pay for things using people's ears or fingernails... this would promote a violent world to play with.

I like the way your mind works xD

 

[Colbey Frost]

I like the way your mind works xD

So do I

 

[Kylara]

nice magic system off the back of that too - the slightly creepy body magic...

 

[chrispenycate]

The idea of fixed exchange rates. or even of fixed prices, is fairly recent. I don't think it could come about at all until other 'fixed' ideas - weights and measures and purity – get fairly well established. Which, until a fairly universal empire (or theocracy, or thaumatocracy, or whatever) enforces a standard is going to be in the hands of the traders. A cubit (the distance from a man's fingertips to his elbow) seems in the past to have had at least 30% variance, miles (a thousand infantry paces) vary with the size of your soldier (though not as much), and so forth.

So, you haggle. Cities might have their own coinage, weighed against Imperial but of greatly varying purity (possibly not even deliberately; until Archimedes gets principles you judge a coin by weight, softness, musicality…) and spirited discussion about relative values has long been a human amusement (one tends not to haggle with dragons, nor royal tax collectors, as it does not lead to a long and comfortable existence.)

Remember, the value of a coin was once the value of the metal in it; one pound was one pound of stirling silver. Makes carrying around the price of that palfrey good weight training.

And encourages the invention of "I promise to pay the bearer on demand…" paper currency.

 

[HareBrain]

miles (a thousand infantry paces) vary with the size of your soldier (though not as much), and so forth.

Something I've wondered for a few years. The Roman mile was equivalent (wikipedia tells me) to about 1481 metres. That makes a pace of 1.481 metres. How on earth did they manage that? I'm 190cm, much taller than the average Roman soldier, and I cannot make a pace of that distance without severely risking several tendons. I definitely couldn't do two in succession.

 

[The Judge]

A Roman pace is two steps.