sentence length

[Jo Zebedee]

Some reviews of my work seem to have thrown up a theme of me using some long sentences, making them hard to follow. This seems to be partially a result of coming closer to the character pov, so semi colons instead of he thoughts etc.

I've chucked up a couple of examples, randomly pulled from the wip:

Are they too long and convuluted?

Any tips on reducing length but keeping flow and close to internal pov. (I don't like choppy writing within my own, can read it happily enough, but I do like a bit of flow, personally.)



He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city, the night sounds of voices and music carrying to him, and waited for the news to come that she was dead because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.



(I can see with this one that I could take a full stop after city and change carrying to carried, but the sense then of the night sounds carrying through the whole picture is lost.)



and:



Sal was pottering in the rock pools to the side, the warm sun – nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat – letting her wear cropped trousers, borrowed from Jac, and a light top.



This one, I think, structurally could be improved at the end, I'm just not sure of the best way to do it. Maybe by saying Jac's cropped trousers?

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Ugh... probably the wrong person to ask... apparently my sentences in Mayhem are too short and Fresh Cream (My cosy mystery) are too long. It really is a matter of style - some works use really long sentences.

However here goes: (this one has a lot of shortening options but one suggestion)
He (use name here) put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city, the night noises of voices and music carrying to him. He listened, waiting for the news to come that she was dead because (you could have a stop or semi here I think) he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.


and

Sal was pottering in the rock pools to the side, the warm sun – nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat – letting her wear cropped trousers, borrowed from Jac, and a light top.

hmm
Sal pottered in the rock pools to the side, enjoying the warm sun. Tarantor's fierce heat let her wear the cropped trousers and light top she'd borrowed from Jac.

 

[Boneman]

Well... where there's an 'ing' and a comma there's a possibility of a full stop.
so:


He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city. The night sounds of voices and music carried to him, and he waited for the news to come; that she was dead because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.

Adds a small amount of drama to his internal monologue, doncha think? (I cannot put this in verdana for some reason...)


And:

Sal pottered in the rock pools to the side. The warm sun – nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat – let her wear cropped trousers, borrowed from Jac, and a light top.

 

[Abernovo]

For the first one, I'd go with something similar to Boneman's suggestion. I know you'd already thought of something like this, and had reservations, but I don't think it damages the flow of the sounds.

He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city. The night sounds of voices and music carried to him as he waited for the news to come: that she was dead because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.


For the second, perhaps:
Sal pottered in the rock pools to the side, the warm sun – nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat – allowing her wear the cropped trousers she'd borrowed from Jac and a light top.

I know this actually makes the sentence slightly longer but, for me, it flowed slightly easier. Some of it is just personal style, though. I found the original easy enough to read.

 

[Glitch]

I'm going to suggest a different approach to see how it works. Just to get you thinking.

He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city, the night sounds of voices and music carrying to him, and waited for the news to come that she was dead because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.

He put the comms unit back in his pocket an looked out over the city. The night sounds of voices and music carried to him, and he waited for the inevitable news of her death. Could he have saved her had loved her just that little bit more.

Sal was pottering in the rock pools to the side, the warm sun – nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat – letting her wear cropped trousers, borrowed from Jac, and a light top.

Sal was pottering in the rock pools to the side. Tarantor's fierce heat meant she had to keep her skin covered, but here the sun was warm. She borrowed cropped trousers and a light top from Jac; allowing her skin to breath and maybe get some colour.

 

[MattC]

An editor once told me sentence structure is like a piece of music. It has to either convey a sense of rhythm or reinforce what is trying to be said. A battle scene or race for example can use lengthy sentences because you're trying to convey the helter skelter of motion (Tickets Please by DH Lawrence is a good example if this). While short sentences with discription allows the reader to linger on an action, perception or a simple observation.

I like Abernovo's suggestions - to me they flow and emphasise the correct parts of the sentence (just my personal taste tho - I can't see problems with others either!)

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Ugh... probably the wrong person to ask... apparently my sentences in Mayhem are too short and Fresh Cream (My cosy mystery) are too long. It really is a matter of style - some works use really long /QUOTE]

Some of mine are short, its these reflective ones, like the first, that meander a bit.

Well... where there's an 'ing' and a comma there's a possibility of a full stop.QUOTE]

Thats really useful, i didn't know that.

I really like the second one, cheers. And everyone seems to be following them okay, so i think it is partly a style decision for me.

I'm going to suggest a different approach to see how it works. Just to get you thinking.
/QUOTE]

This early? On a saturday morning? coffee!

An editor once told me sentence structure is like a piece of music. It has to either convey a sense of rhythm or reinforce what is trying to be said. /QUOTE]

I think this is why i get into this pickle, i get carried away with the rhythm and lose the context.

Ty everyone.

 

[allmywires]

IMHO, in the first sentence you're trying to do too much. Also, the night sounds of voices and music carrying to him sounds, to me, a bit awkward, so I'd be tempted to reword it entirely.

He put the comms unit back in his pocket, looking out over the city. The sounds of late-night revellers and faded music filtered through the air, and he waited for the news to come that she was dead - all because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.

Not sure this entirely works but there you go. The second sentence has already been fixed by the others I reckon.

 

[Ursa major]

An editor once told me sentence structure is like a piece of music. It has to either convey a sense of rhythm or reinforce what is trying to be said. A battle scene or race for example can use lengthy sentences because you're trying to convey the helter skelter of motion (Tickets Please by DH Lawrence is a good example if this). While short sentences with discription allows the reader to linger on an action, perception or a simple observation.

Don't you mean

A battle scene or race for example can use short sentences because you're trying to convey the helter skelter of motion

and

While long sentences with description allows the reader to linger on an action, perception or a simple observation.

I must say that I have trouble with long sentences. Not writing them: as can be seen on the Chrons, some of my sentences are very long, with semicolons, colons, text contained within n-dashes and within brackets (braces). I worry that they're too long for the reader - potential readers of my WiPS, not those here** - to stick with them. And there's the fear that in trying to decipher such a sentence, the reader is pulled out of the story. I then resort to chopping the sentences up, giving, what one critiquer here as has called a choppy style.

As for Springs' sentences...

He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city, the night sounds of voices and music carrying to him, and waited for the news to come that she was dead because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.

He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city. While he waited for the inevitable news -- that she was dead -- night sounds, voices and music, carried to him. Had she died because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her?

Sal was pottering in the rock pools to the side, the warm sun – nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat – letting her wear cropped trousers, borrowed from Jac, and a light top.

Sal, wearing cropped trousers borrowed from Jac and a light top, pottered amongst the rock pools, pleased that this world's sun produced nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat.



** - Some of my longer sentences here at the Chrons are attempts to dissect something in enough detail that the reader (and I) can get a complete picture of what is going on in, say, a sentence offered for critique or some byway of grammar. In these cases, the sentence is meant to be read more than once.

 

[SciFrac]

IMHO, in the first sentence you're trying to do too much.

I agree. I think the problem is too many changes in focus. The last part feels the most awkward. Period after "dead" then discuss his internal conflict. Fact then reflection.

I think this is why i get into this pickle, i get carried away with the rhythm and lose the context.

I do the same. Sometimes I indulge my need for rhythm and write completely random nonsense just to hear some. It's the drummer in me, pouring onto paper.

 

[Brian G Turner]

The first sentence does read as convoluted. If you're going for sombre, then short sentences might work better, ie:

He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city. The night sounds of voices and music carried to him. He waited for the news to come that she was dead. He hadn’t loved her enough to save her.



I don't see any issues with the second sentence for length?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

The first sentence does read as convoluted. If you're going for sombre, then short sentences might work better, ie:

He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city. The night sounds of voices and music carried to him. He waited for the news to come that she was dead. He hadn’t loved her enough to save her.



QUOTE]

I can see how this has much more clarity, and probably suits modern tastes better, but it lacks the reflective quality that I wanted, as opposed to sombre.

I think Boneman's semi before the that works well. A period wouldn't work, because the final statement isn't a sentence in its own right.

But I see a review coming of all my long, convuluted sentences, and a consideration of where I can break them. (If I break them..., I suppose.)

 

[MattC]

Don't you mean
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattC
An editor once told me sentence structure is like a piece of music. It has to either convey a sense of rhythm or reinforce what is trying to be said. A battle scene or race for example can use lengthy sentences because you're trying to convey the helter skelter of motion (Tickets Please by DH Lawrence is a good example if this). While short sentences with discription allows the reader to linger on an action, perception or a simple observation.

Don't you mean

Quote:
A battle scene or race for example can use short sentences because you're trying to convey the helter skelter of motion

and

Quote:
While long sentences with description allows the reader to linger on an action, perception or a simple observation.

Hi Ursa Major

Nope, I did mean long sentences for those conveying motion or a blurring sequence of events such as a battle or race or vehicle journey, and short for lingering description. The reason for this, the reason handed down to me, is that generally readers will race through long sentences to get to the end. Anything important you'd like the reader to remember or concentrate on will be lost by stuffing a sentence with numerous observations or actions. There's simply too much to take in to keep it vivid enough.

You can get away with this with long sentences for the purposes of battles or motion. Like watching the world go by on a train or in a car, that world is a blur and forgotten in the next instant. Or in the case of a fierce battle, that breathless feeling of being carried away in the carnage, never being allowed to linger on a specific killing but hurtling deep into the blood-soaked mayhem.

If you don't want that to happen, if you want your reader to concentrate on their surroundings a little more, you apply the breaks (full-stops) or coast to a halt (semi-colon).
It doesn't work in every instance and depends on circumstance and style of the text, but some established authors I've spoken to swear by this and I guess I'm shamelessly pimping that advice

 

[Ursa major]

That's interesting, because I've always seen it described as being the other way round.

As ever, it seems it's left to us to choose which of them we think works best. (Darp!)

.

 

[prizzley]

Or:

The night sounds of voices and music carried to him as he put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city, waiting for the news to come that she was dead because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.

This keeps the sense of the night sounds carrying through the whole picture.


I don't see a problem with the second example

 

[MattC]

That's interesting, because I've always seen it described as being the other way round.

As ever, it seems it's left to us to choose which of them we think works best. (Darp!)

You're not alone - I used to think this too until I tried doing it the other way round. It most cases it did work.

But it ain't foolproof. I'm not sure if any writing advice is!

 

[booksforlunch]

He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city, the night sounds of voices and music carrying to him, and waited for the news to come that she was dead because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.

Okay that is hard to follow, not really for length, but because so many things are thrown into one sentence.


How about:

He put the comms unit back in his pocket and looked out over the city. Distant sounds of voices and music of the night carried to him while he waited for the news of her death. How she had died because he hadn’t loved her enough to save her.

Sal was pottering in the rock pools to the side, the warm sun – nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat – letting her wear cropped trousers, borrowed from Jac, and a light top.

That one's perfectly fine. But if you want to split it, it's actually dead easy if you recognize which parts of it tie to which, and which ones are independent of each other.
What she is wearing is in not automatically linked to her pottering - she might wear the same stuff just sitting by the pools, or having a walk. But the warm sun has to do with it, and the comparison to Tarantor belongs with the sun, too.

So (with your ideas of tightening the description):

Sal was pottering in the rock pools to the side. The warm sun – nothing like Tarantor's fierce heat – allowed her to wear Jac's cropped trousers, and a light top.