Author cuts and some random thoughts...

[Erin99]

Just been discussing publishing and the like with Seph, which led me to doing some sums. Admittedly, maths isn't my strong point by far, but here goes. Anyway, I thought this was interesting for anyone still fooling themselves with thoughts of authors getting loads of money (it's nice to see a rough figure of how much most could earn). I'm gonna work on some rough figures, which are VERY rough (like, "I think I remember X saying this a while ago..."), but forgive me if I'm waaaay out, because this is interesting anyway. Here are my rough figures:

• An author earns 8% royalty on every book sale (of course, this will vary from author to author).
• An author selling 5,000 copies is about average for a new author with a little marketing.

(Even if these are wrong, the figure below still makes you think.)

So...

Let's say an average book is £8.99. To get 1% of that, we divide by 100:

8.99 / 100 = 0.0899

Then we want to work out the author's 8% royalty, so:

0.0899 x 8 = 0.7192

So, that's 8% of a book that sells for £8.99. The author gets 70p per book (can that really be right???)

Lastly, we want to work out what the author will earn over a year of sales - say, 5,000 sales in total:

0.7192 * 5000 =


£3,596.


So, not counting any advance for a book, an author would make £3,596 by selling 5,000 books in a year - you better not quit the day job.

(Or am I completely wrong there? Did I do anything wrong in my maths, seeing that I last studied maths at secondary school in '99?!)



Sorry for the waffling, anyway - I found this very interesting! I don't have grand hopes of earning millions, but I do find it disheartening that something an author spends years on and lovingly crafts, often to the detriment of other things, can be worth so little compared to, say, a cup of coffee (why does everything have to come down to money?). 70p per book?!

However, I think what you'd gain in terms of (hopefully) giving enjoyment and escapism to readers, to see your work finally 'out there' where it has to stand - or fall - on its own merits, would make it all worthwhile. For me, being published is about what I would give to the world, not what the world would give to me in terms of cash. If I wanted cash, I wouldn't have written and given my novelette to a small press who can't afford to pay pro rates yet (I don't even know how much I will make from it, to be honest).

Besides, it's up to each writer whether or not to aim for publication, after all. If you don't like it, don't do it. Or self-pub, I suppose, if you want to compete with all the poorly written/edited books that fall into that category.



However, this is all moot point, really, since I couldn't stop writing even if I never got published.

And now I better get to bed. Strange the thoughts you have last thing at night.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Working out is slightly off - it's not 0.7p per book, but 72p, in your calculations - but then you times by 50,000 instead of 5,000, which balances it out.

Still not a lot, though, on the first novel - hence the need for more and push through by weight of numbers.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

You're not too far off. Except that most new writers don't earn out the advance and never see royalties. Whatever they get from the advance, that's it forever.

 

[Coragem]

For me worrying about how much I'd be paid as an author would be a bit like worrying about how to navigate to the moon after I've built my space rocket. For now I'm too busy worrying about building the space rocket to bother too much about where I'll take it.

I always assumed that publishers pay an advance and that's all you get unless/until sales surpass the advance – then royalties begin creeping in.

All in all, as you intimate Leisha, most of us write because we love it and because we couldn't not write. We know that being published can be years and years away, we know that a lot of the work we put our souls into will never be read, and we know that only a teeny-tiny amount of published work goes on to be a commercial success.

Someone like Joe Abercrombie clearly does very well. The man is a celebrity. But then, read his stuff. He breaks all the rules (grammar, tense continuity, sensible sentence length, forget it) but he's talent (raw and untutored to some degree, I think). The voice, the humour, the idiosyncrasies of the characters – it all leaps off the page. Those of us who can do something like that (or maybe not at all like that, but comparably good) may do well (and deserve to do well) financially.

Coragem.

 

[Erin99]

Ah, thank you, Brian! I had written 50,000 but luckily only calculated 5,000, since that is what is needed (and I'd though that other part pence, not pounds)! But I've gone and corrected the post now (I'm glad I hadn't gone to bed yet!). Thank you!

Thanks, Theresa. Good to know I'm almost on the right track. I remember reading that a fair number of first-time authors didn't earn out their advances...


Coragem - yes. I'm always glad of that attitude on here. I've seen "writers" elsewhere who still talk of earning millions and quitting their day jobs, and it just seems so unrealistic. It would be great if you made it big, but equally great if you were good enough be published and to inspire/enthral/make readers happy.


And while I can appreciate Abercrombie's talents, I have yet to finish his novel. I got half way but life took over and somehow I never went back to it. I mean to, though, although it's not my preffered type of fantasy. Currently I'm in awe of Robert Jordan - now HE's inspiring and talented!!! eek: ) I'm up to book two, but loving it. The plot and characters and ideas are just so engaging... I don't even care that apparently the series sags in the middle - what series doesn't?)

 

[Warren_Paul]

Even GRRM's series sagged around the middle and still hasn't recovered quite yet.

But I guess we all have our own tastes. I read Wheel of Time and am looking forward to the final book, but I know even Robert Jordan had his weaknesses as a writer. I'd run and hide though, calling him talented around here.

He developed a good world, has a couple of good characters in it, but then slipped off the character development bandwagon elsewhere. The books are still entertaining enough though, I suppose.


As far as author's income goes, I believe the average advance works out to about what a single person would get for a year on the welfare system over here - after exchange rates push it up - so if one of my books got published, it's possible I could actually live off that, barely and with strict budgeting, but only if I was single and flatting. If I had a house and family to support, debts to pay, there is no way I could do it.

 

[Bowler1]

So...

Let's say an average book is £8.99. To get 1% of that, we divide by 100:

8.99 / 100 = 0.0899

Then we want to work out the author's 8% royalty, so:

0.0899 x 8 = 0.7192

So, that's 8% of a book that sells for £8.99. The author gets 70p per book (can that really be right???)

Lastly, we want to work out what the author will earn over a year of sales - say, 5,000 sales in total:

0.7192 * 5000 =


£3,596.

I've worked for two years now trying to get my first book out doing a number of hours each week without fail, best guess I'd say ten hours a week but we'll start with five hours a week.

So...

52 x 2 x 5 = 520hrs
Hourly rate = £6.91

I really do between five and ten hours a week so I could be as low as £3.45 per hour, assuming of course, I even get published.

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

A hobby that might, a very big might, pay for a holiday sometime. And after all the work I've put in, I think I'll need a holiday...

 

[Hex]

I think, like Teresa said, the author advance is the important thing for a first-time novelist.

Also, it's not viable to earn a living from one book. I think (though I could be wrong) that if your first book sells, the next advance is a bit bigger and if you can keep producing books (something within your control) and people like them and buy them (less so), you could probably eventually just about earn enough to live on as long as your standards aren't too high and you're prepared to do other things as well (and you don't want a pension or anything).

It's about the career, maybe, not the first book.

 

[Scott R. Forshaw]

If we did it for the money, then we'd be fooling ourselves. In the grand scheme of things, I imagine only a small percentage of writers make a killing writing books, and let's be fair, some of them are just plain lucky. 50 shades springs to mind.

I, personally, do it for the love of writing, and if anyone is brave enough to pick up something I've written, then it makes it all the more worthwhile. The money's just an added bonus.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

None of us are in it for the money. But the figures above are about right.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I'd be in it for the money if it ever turned up!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm always glad of that attitude on here. I've seen "writers" elsewhere who still talk of earning millions and quitting their day jobs, and it just seems so unrealistic. It would be great if you made it big, but equally great if you were good enough be published and to inspire/enthral/make readers happy.

Even Joe Abercrombie stated he couldn't leave his day job until his fourth book was published.

So even if you intend to be successful, you still have to be very patient.

 

[Montero]

Or have a spouse prepared to support you.

 

[Bowler1]

Or have a spouse prepared to support you.

Oh yeah, right.
My luck is really stacked against me, she already complains about being a writing widow.

 

[Gary Compton]

None of us are in it for the money. But the figures above are about right.

I am unashamedly in it for the money. Off course I want to write a good story that people like, that's well written - blah de blah de blah.

Will it happen?

At my current rate of progress, maybe when I'm 90

Publish the book yourself Leisha and get 92% revenue. The 8% goes to me for telling you to do it

 

[Erin99]

Oh yeah, right.
My luck is really stacked against me, she already complains about being a writing widow.

I'm lucky in that my partner is a fantastic writer, too, so he's VERY supportive. Unless it's meant in the financial way...? (I think it was!)

And yes, you'd likely have to get a few books out before people started recognising your name and wanting to buy more from you. What I'm worried about is that whole book-a-year thing. What if health gets in the way, for example, and you can't sit for hours at a time to write, or you can't write every day or even every week? What if you try really hard but you *can't* write a book a year, or you know there's no way you can, realistically? I feel it would seriously affect the quality of my work; I don't know about others. And unless you're a household name, I doubt publishers would want a book every two years...

Then again, I suppose that would be a nice dilemma to have to think about if it happened, cos it would mean someone loved your work enough to want to sell it. Though you have to get past the hurdle of making your book good enough, first...


And no dissing Jordan in my thread. As far as I'm concerned, he's amazing. His book has been a real eye-opener. Book one was okayish but not amazing (I only really liked it for its Shire-style opening), but book two is one of the best books I've ever read. And I've been told book three beats that.



Gary, hello! *bows down* You're like I, Brian to me - you're an Internet God.

(He's hosting my website on his awesome server, for any who don't know.)

Gary - I would never self-pub. I believe if I'm good enough one day, I will make it. If an agent won't take me on, I obviously need to keep learning. They wouldn't turn down something amazing...

 

[Gary Compton]

Gary, hello! *bows down* You're like I, Brian to me - you're an Internet God.

(He's hosting my website on his awesome server, for any who don't know.)

Gary - I would never self-pub. I believe if I'm good enough one day, I will make it. If an agent won't take me on, I obviously need to keep learning. They wouldn't turn down something amazing...

I just wish I had windswept hair, like Brian

I don't use the word self-publish.

It's a business, you have a superb product so why wouldn't you do it yourself and get all the money. What do agents/publishers do that you couldn't employ an accredited professional to do. (controversial statement alert)

But good luck anyway

 

[Glitch]

It's a business, you have a superb product so why wouldn't you do it yourself and get all the money. What do agents/publishers do that you couldn't employ an accredited professional to do.

There are probably many reasons an agent/publisher might turn down a book which aren't related to the quality of writing. Perhaps a story/plot is too complicated.

But yes best of luck to everyone, self-publish or traditional.

And Leisha - if you're successful, don't forget about the movie rights

 

[Erin99]

You don't need Brian's windswept locks - you have Gary Charm.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, agents have the connections and the confidence to find the best deal for you quicker than if you sent your manuscript off to a publisher's slushpile. Publishers help by adding their brand and name behind the author's work - a sort of "Look, we think this work is good enough - have a read". Also, if you self-publish, you've got a hard time trying to prove your work's better than the millions of low-priced (read: "enticing for buyers") self-pubbed slush out there. It's hard enough to sell a traditionally published book; it would be even harder to sell a self-pubbed one. Too many negative connotations (and rightly so, in most cases).

And I agree with Glitch. There are other reasons why publishers/agents decline manuscripts. One of my friends had her story rejected with 2 personal comments by top agents because it was simply "Too hard to sell" and "not right for the market", in the sense that it was all a big metaphor for consciousness and being, layered into a more thought-provoking plot rather than an action-packed one.

But I still think if you write an engaging, well-paced story, with lots going on and memorable characters that people love and want to read about, agents will only look on complex plots as a bonus. I don't think they would reject a manuscript alone on the basis of the plot being too complex (look at George Martin, Robert Jordan, etc). They want commercial fiction; i.e., fiction that has lots to like about it, so lots like it.

In short, I feel that if all the elements of a truly fantastic story are in place and you understand the mechanics of writing, you *should* get published.



(Well, it's my hope anyway.)

Best of luck to everyone, too! Though be careful of movie rights if the screenwriter wants to write whole a new movie based on a book you never wrote. *cough* The Hobbit Part 3 *cough*

 

[Brian G Turner]

I just wish I had windswept hair, like Brian

It's okay, my hair's gone Tank Girl for the moment.