Tips on changing scenes?

[pokiepup]

Okay guys first off hello, I'm new here and this is my first thread so I hope I am putting it in the right place, would be really embarrassing for my first post to be wrong.


My is I'm asking for advice or tips on is this, what point of view is best and how do you jump scenes between different people without changing that chapter completely.


I write fan-fiction frequently and with that you can kind of do it like a script while still staying in third person or first and it flows fine. But now I am about to take my first crack at writing a novel and no matter how many books I read on it they all talk about punctuation, dialog and plot none I have found ever talk about that. Any tips would be appreciated please.


Thank you.

 

[The Judge]

Hello! GWD is fine for this kind of question, so that's one worry sorted!

Unless you are deliberately restricting yourself with character POVs, then my advice is to choose the person who gives most to that particular scene, with the caveat that at the beginning of the book I would concentrate on the lead characters, not the bit-players. Some people get edgy if POV is swapped too often during a chapter, and again this is most marked at the beginning of the book when they need to settle in, so again I'd be careful there. Otherwise, show a change of POV by leaving clear spaces between them, even if they are in the same scene (ie they are in the same place and at the same time) and I usually put a * or other signifier just to make it clear, too.

 

[nubins]

I often wonder this as most of my current story follows one main character. But there are points where I follow the action with another character. I get confused about what technically is right and have just decided to go with it and make it as clear as possible there is a POV switch and who it has switched to.

 

[Bowler1]

When I'm writing in a section I keep to the POV.

# # # - Three hashs are my choice to make it clear there is a break.

But when I'm in a different section it's a different POV.

My choice is 3rd person close, I've not done much 1st person.

 

[Victoria Silverwolf]

This is a very good question.

Many novels never require a change in point of view. We follow one character throughout the novel, and never go into the mind of another character. It's important to realize that this can be done with third person as well as first person.

With very limited exceptions, you should stay within one character's point of view within a scene. If your story requires a change of point of view, I would tend to think that it should usually occur with the start of a new chapter. The reader will then be prepared for such a change. (Or some other change: a change in setting, time, and so on. Otherwise why start a new chapter at all?)

There are, of course, exceptions to all "rules" of writing. In Alfred Bester's classic story "Fondly Fahrenheit," the author changes point of view constantly -- sometimes within a sentence! In this case, however, this is done to strengthen the theme of the story. (A man and an android lose their sense of which one is which.) "Fondly Fahrenheit" is also a very jazzy, jumpy, fast-paced story, so the jarring effect of changes in point of view is deliberate.

 

[Warren_Paul]

The official rule for manuscript layout is one # in the space between scenes. First-person books don't have to do this as often because typically they are only from one PoV the whole book - although you use the hash for any break, not just when switching PoV.

For instance, here is an example from one of my 3rd-person interlude chapters where I change PoVs in the middle of a chapter: (spoilers beta readers )

Taimis tugged on the reins of his horse, turning it half around in a startled prance. Facing him once more, his brother said, ‘I will take the girl, and don’t even think of stopping me or by the Great Lizard, brother or not, it will be war between us.’

#​

Torchlight cast shadows across the walls, dancing fitfully to every flicker of the flames. Koda paced back and forth and listened to the silence coming from within the next room, hoping to hear Tooma’s voice, or any sign that he would live.

You never change PoV without breaking the scene, unless it is an omniscient PoV. There are writers who get away without doing that, but they are bad, bad people who like to confuse us poor readers. Or as Springs says below, the rules have changed in regards to that over the years.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Just to play devil's.... Third person close requires us to stay in one pov, but this as the standard is relatively recent. There are plenty of examples where this isn't adhered to ( but it isn't in vogue at th mo.) Sherrilyn Kenyon's atocious one I read switched pov regularly, but wasn't well done, whereas Captain Corelli's mandolin ( not sff admittedly) does it with fantastic aplomb, smothly and naturally. But it isn't the norm, esp for sff, and the hash split is, as far as I aware, the standard way to change pov.

Oh, and the measles is worth exploring, colour each pov differently, and if your page is a rainbow it's too many for modern sff readers, as a rule.

 

[Mouse]

You've got like a billion answers now but yeah, for a change of POV and change of scene then it's a hash. For a change of POV during the same scene, you need a line break. (Though I still do a hash sometimes, just in case!)

 

[Warren_Paul]

I'm pretty sure it's always a hash, regardless of if you're changing PoV or scene. The typesetter takes all the hashes out when they prepare it for publication. I think the hash is merely there to ensure the typesetter/editor doesn't miss a line break, not so they know the PoV is changing. I believe it might be another throw back to the typewriter days where manuscripts had to be rewritten for publication. It will probably be phased out over time, since the typesetter no longer really needs to watch out for line breaks.

 

[alchemist]

I'm pretty sure it's always a hash, regardless of if you're changing PoV or scene.

That's what I do too. You could use a line-break but I presume guidance suggests using # so that editors don't think all your breaks are horrible mistakes.

I see no problem with changing POVs within a scene either. Maybe we have different definitions of what constitutes a scene (for me, it's an event, such as a battle), but Joe Abercrombie, for instance, will change POV within a battle frequently to good effect.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Changing within a scene I think was meaning without a line break.

If you didn't put a line break in to separate the PoVs it would be considered head-hopping, which is a big no-no.

 

[alchemist]

Changing within a scene I think was meaning without a line break.

And who could condone that disgusting practice?

Although I read a Wilbur Smith novel recently where he did it. I tut-tutted furiously.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Yeah, quite a few older authors do it, because as Springs rightfully pointed out; standards on this have changed over the years. But for some reason, those older authors tend to still write the old fashioned way and get away with it because of their publishing credits.

As far as what constitutes a scene, that's really subjective. If a battle lasts a whole chapter, but is broken up into multiple PoVs then I'd consider each of those breaks a different scene. But if the entire battle was from only one PoV, then the whole chapter was one big scene. Basically, as soon as you add a line break, that is a new scene to me.

 

[pokiepup]

Hm okay thank you all for all of the responses. Helps quite a bit.

 

[Mouse]

I'm pretty sure it's always a hash, regardless of if you're changing PoV or scene.

Hmm. Not what an actual real-life agent/editor person told me. Mind, this was years ago so it might be different now! I've gone for the ole hash in my WiP anyhow.

 

[Abernovo]

Shunn has the desired character as a hash, I believe, and his formatting notes are recommended as a reference by several publishers and magazines for submissions.

However, I think the most important thing is probably consistency. If you always use a star, and it's obvious that it's a scene break, I think most agents and editors would work with that. The writing being good is more important to them than which esoteric symbol you choose to denote a break, I suspect.