Green dreams and red visions

[The Imp]

I'd say that the green dreams are akin to the things the red priests see in the flames. Always accurate, but subject to misinterpretation. So yeah, what Eualia and Needle said. Jojen saw what he saw, but probably misunderstood what it meant. He's wise and all, but still a kid.

For some reason, your post made me re-think what I believe to be true about green dreams and "red" dreams (has anyone called them that before? I suspect yes ). In a nutshell, we have only what Jojen Reed and Melisandre have to say about the dreams/visions they both rely on.

Can we REALLY be sure that Melisandre, Jojen, et all, aren't at times receiving misinformation, bad information, etc? If the Gods wanted their wishes/ideas to be known, why not be explicit? Maybe I'm being too literally, but I'm not sure that all green dreams come to pass, or that all Red visions can be trusted.

 

[Ursa major]

If the Gods wanted their wishes/ideas to be known, why not be explicit?

I hope the show runners of Game of Thrones don't see this comment. If they do, the green dreams will likely become info-humping and the red visions become sexposition.


*cough*


One explanation could be that the gods - being alien, all-knowing and superior - communicate in the way that's natural to them, which mostly goes over the heads of mere humanoids. All that's left to the later are isolated images that, perhaps, merely illustrate the complete prophesies.

Besides, gods seem to like being Delphic.

 

[ThePro]

Hmm...I see your point. And I suppose that nothing is ever certain, but I kinda feel like GRRM would want to have some sort of certainty somewhere in his story. And the visions of red priests and green dreams seem like the closest thing to that...

But, I also seem to remember both Jojen & Mel saying that what they see falls into 3 categories: things that will happen, things that have happened and sometimes things that 'may' happen. I can't remember if they both said that (or either, so I will do a little searching (I have ebooks of them all) and see what I can come up with. Might be later tonight or tomorrow (or later depending on when I travel back to Atlanta) but yeah...I think it's worth looking further into to try and understand what GRRM is telling us each time he presents us with info from each of the "seers." The better we understand that, the better we can guess what's to come....

I promise this will stop soon - but I have to say again how awesome this board is...definitely the exception and not the rule for message boards...

 

[Eulalia]

Tricksie prophesieses.

 

[Needle]

Hmmm, kinda of two opinions here.

I agree with Ursa in that the dreams may be clear to the Gods sending them, just that mere humans cannot fully understand them. Maybe off subject, but not really, I was watching Supernatural this morning and Dean was talking to Death. Death was disgusted with Dean and said something to the effect of "I am so far above you it would be like a bacteria getting all snarky with you and demanding answers." No matter how plainly you stated it, the "bacteria" would probably not quite get it!

As far as the red dreams go, you all know my opinion on Rhallor! Don't trust him for a second! He (yes I'm sure it's a he!) may be sending intentionally vague visions.

 

[The Imp]

Hmm...I see your point. And I suppose that nothing is ever certain, but I kinda feel like GRRM would want to have some sort of certainty somewhere in his story. And the visions of red priests and green dreams seem like the closest thing to that...

But, I also seem to remember both Jojen & Mel saying that what they see falls into 3 categories: things that will happen, things that have happened and sometimes things that 'may' happen. I can't remember if they both said that (or either, so I will do a little searching (I have ebooks of them all) and see what I can come up with. Might be later tonight or tomorrow (or later depending on when I travel back to Atlanta) but yeah...I think it's worth looking further into to try and understand what GRRM is telling us each time he presents us with info from each of the "seers." The better we understand that, the better we can guess what's to come....

I promise this will stop soon - but I have to say again how awesome this board is...definitely the exception and not the rule for message boards...

I'm fairly positive that Jojen has said on a number of occasions that "the green dreams never lie"

Hmmm, kinda of two opinions here.

I agree with Ursa in that the dreams may be clear to the Gods sending them, just that mere humans cannot fully understand them. Maybe off subject, but not really, I was watching Supernatural this morning and Dean was talking to Death. Death was disgusted with Dean and said something to the effect of "I am so far above you it would be like a bacteria getting all snarky with you and demanding answers." No matter how plainly you stated it, the "bacteria" would probably not quite get it!

As far as the red dreams go, you all know my opinion on Rhallor! Don't trust him for a second! He (yes I'm sure it's a he!) may be sending intentionally vague visions.

I'm not sure we can trust the Old Gods either. They MAY in fact be working together, and guiding things so that everyone is united in the final fight against The Others.

 

[Eversummer]

We do not know the whole thing about the Old Gods of the North yet and with Bloodraven serving as it's "pope". Why was it called "green" dreams anyway when the leaves of the weirwood trees were bloodred? The trunk, the branches were bone-white.
I think it was also mentioned in Bran's POV as he witnessed the beheading of a person thru the weirwood's "eyes", with the tree absorbing the blood, that he can feel being nourished.

All we know about Rh'llor is that he is very bloodthirsty god as men were sacrificed to be favored well: thru burning, offering of king's blood, etc. The servants of the Red God wore red and being former slaves themselves were very devout that I perceived it to be a fault.

We knew that the red visions were being misconstrued several times over as well as the green dreams. What would Osha say? I think it went like this: the Starks had forgotten the North (or something like that) that the people beyond the wall hadn't. The CoTF speaks a different tongue as some of the people north of the Wall still speak the tongue of the First Men.

But can I also add what they call dragon dreams? Aenar Targaryen's daughter, Daenys, saw the Doom of Valyria take place...but it took years to happen, right?


Needle has the right of it, gods speak the words of an oracle--very poetic, trivial--that we the "bacteria" is only a dot in their perception though (I know I'm speaking nonsense here) they (gods) had kept their faith in the people and somehow helping them on thru giving them vaguest of the vague signs, visions, dreams etc which actually can help them make or break decisions.

PS. May you all have a happy new year's eve! Lots, Eversummer