Amatur writing questions

[juelz4sure]

Hello everyone, I am currently working on my WIP, I envision it to be a trilogy with the option to make a prequel (I guess that just as good a word to use as any other). My question(s) is (are) I have a goal as to how many pages I would like my novel to be and that is no less than 250 words; I'm currently around 90 pages is that, for a lack of better words, stupid? I honestly feel like it can go farther than that but a lot of people have told me not to worry about that.

My other question is as follows; am I the only one that half-way through the story has the ending for the first book beginning of the second book and the ending to the second book as well long before I've finished the first book. Is that just weird of is that what many writers go through. I hope I'm not the only one that would be pretty weird.

 

[Victoria Silverwolf]

Hello everyone, I am currently working on my WIP, I envision it to be a trilogy with the option to make a prequel (I guess that just as good a word to use as any other). My question(s) is (are) I have a goal as to how many pages I would like my novel to be and that is no less than 250 words; I'm currently around 90 pages is that, for a lack of better words, stupid? I honestly feel like it can go farther than that but a lot of people have told me not to worry about that.

I assume that the phrase above -- "250 words" -- should say "250 pages." In any case, about how many words do you have per page? Depending on that, your trilogy might turn out to be one long book with three parts -- nothing wrong with that.

My other question is as follows; am I the only one that half-way through the story has the ending for the first book beginning of the second book and the ending to the second book as well long before I've finished the first book. Is that just weird of is that what many writers go through. I hope I'm not the only one that would be pretty weird.

That seems perfectly fine. I have heard that many people have very complex, multipart stories in their heads before they put down a single word. Whatever works for you is OK.

 

[The Judge]

I'm not sure I understand the first paragraph -- you mean no less than 250 pages? Or no less than 250,000 words?

Anyway, if this is your first book, then yes, stop worrying about how long it is at this stage. Write it as it needs to be written, then edit it and revise it, and only then start to worry about word count. If you're thinking of self-publishing, it doesn't matter how long or short the book is. If you want to go the traditional route, then there are guidelines but those are different for SF and fantasy, and for the US and UK markets. Anything much under 90,000 is probably too short; anything much over 160,000 probably too long -- but there are exceptions to every rule. The main thing is DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT NOW! Write the book first.

As to planning ahead, I've written two SFs with material for about a dozen more, and I know exactly how the very last one ends, as well as various beginnings and endings (and middle bits) in between. So, no, you're not the only one.

 

[Abernovo]

I'll go for the second question first. It sounds like you have a vision of the grand story arc covering the various parts of your story. In that, I don't think it's weird at all.

As to being at 90 pages and aiming for it to be more than 250 pages, that sounds fine to me as well. Just don't pad it out if it ends up at 240 pages. Once you edit and go back, you may find that page totals change anyway. I do think that a story has its own length, and shouldn't be pushed into being longer or shorter. However, I suspect that you desire for 250 pages is probably based on a feeling of the material.

So, no you're not weird (other than the fact that we're all supposedly a bit strange in sff-dom ). Good luck.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Juelz, I wouldn't worry. I've written the first and second of a trilogy, always knowing there was a back story that I might write one day. Now, I'm back writing it. I don't even know if I'll use it, only that only by writing it can I really understand it. So long as you have a general sense where it's going, let it run. You can do the structuring and what not later.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

With mine I have often written the series backwards. My detectives I have four novels drafted because I kept thinking there was one that came before. The fantasy I drafted the last story in the series before completing the first.

I have found it beneficial to know where the larger arc is going.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Just putting it in there that you don't go by page numbers anyway, but by word count, because the number of pages changes considerably based on formatting - especially the font used. Change from Times New Roman to Courier and you add like 50 pages.

You should be aiming for 100k words if you want the book to be a decent size - but don't force it to be that big if the story can't make it.


If you're finding you're getting through the story quicker than expected, then maybe you need to rethink the plot a bit and flesh it out more. I'd also look into character depth as well. If you're PoV isn't deep enough, you'll be rushing through the scenes quicker than you should be because you're not dealing with the character's thoughts and emotions. 90 manuscript pages I'd estimate at somewhere around 30k words? If you've written two books worth of plot in that show word count them something isn't right - unless it wasn't truly two books worth to begin with. But finish the book first before worrying about that.

I also found that every draft I did of my book always made it a bit bigger. The first draft finished at 71k, the second 120k, the third 157k. Of course, once I was done I edited it down to 140k before eventually cutting off the last 40k and moving it back into the second book when I decided it suited YA.

 

[juelz4sure]

I'm sorry for the confusion 250 pages I wrote this just before going to work. Thank you everyone for your insights, it's greatly appreciated!

 

[M.Tullius]

I agree with The Judge. Don't worry about the length of the story right now, just focus on telling it. Once you have it written then just accept it for what it is, be it one big book instead of a trilogy, or a series of short stories, or hopefully a trilogy. As for the second question, I've found that I often have the middle portion of my story's big picture figured out. My problem is I'm always rewriting the beginning. I'll finish a draft of my novel then realize I need to rewrite 50% of it. All those changes in the beginning make it harder for me to figure out what the actual END of the whole thing will be.

 

[Warren_Paul]

My problem is I'm always rewriting the beginning.

The beginning is the hardest part to write, I find.

 

[Reivax26]

I am also noticing that the beginning can sometimes be the most annoying to write. That's why I haven't posted any updated versions of the first page of my WIP on the critique section in a few days. Trying to sort out all the garbled up stuff in my mind.

Finally I just decided to hell with it and started working on another area of the novel. The prologue can wait until editing.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Finally I just decided to hell with it and started working on another area of the novel. The prologue can wait until editing.

I'm pretty sure it's normal for the prologue to be the last part of the book written.

 

[Reivax26]

That doesn't make any sense though. The prologue sets the tone for the entire novel. Why on earth would you write it last on purpose?

 

[Montero]

Until the novel is written, how do you know what its tone is?

No, seriously. Depends on how you write, but you might sketch out what is in the prologue, write the book, come back, change your mind, or keep your mind (so to speak ) as to what is in the prologue but write it wholly differently.
Or you set about writing, with the intention of having a prologue, but again leave it to last.

Some composers have written three or four different overtures to the same opera. So....

 

[M.Tullius]

It is encouraging that I'm not the only one to have problems with the beginning

As for prologues, I've thought of having one and written a couple different ones, all completely different. I think it is probably better to save it for last so you can think of your story as a whole and write something short and sweet that sets the mood and draws the reader in.

 

[Tecdavid]

The beginning is the hardest part to write, I find.

Hardest to redraft too, I think. There you are, sitting down to your work after a few weeks' or months' rest, you begin the next draft, and much later, once it's all said and done, you take a brief read through chapters 1-3 and -- "Bugger! It's no better than before!"
Whether writing or redrafting, the beginning is where you get into the swing of things, so it's probably much more likely to suffer than the main body of your work.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Hardest to redraft too, I think. There you are, sitting down to your work after a few weeks' or months' rest, you begin the next draft, and much later, once it's all said and done, you take a brief read through chapters 1-3 and -- "Bugger! It's no better than before!"
Whether writing or redrafting, the beginning is where you get into the swing of things, so it's probably much more likely to suffer than the main body of your work.

It's also the make and break of the story. People will put a book down if it has a bad start, regardless of how good the story becomes. So you have to make absolutely sure the beginning is at your best. Luckily, the beginning tends to be the most critiqued part. You'll see in Writing Group, once you get a high enough post count, that when you put up the first few chapters of a finished book for critique, the majority of the conversation will be about the first scene/chapter.