Returning to ASOIAF after a break

[Landroval]

It's a long time since I read A Song of Ice and Fire. I got as far as the fourth book, but that was a few years ago and, while I can remember the major characters, I've forgotten a lot of the detail.

As I understand it, book five is now done, but the series is not yet finished.

Is there any word on when the whole project is likely to be completed? Are we looking at within the next five years, or beyond that? (It was taking five years per volume last I heard).

Despite the fact that the book remains unfinished, there was a kind of closure at the end of the fourth volume (even though a lot still needed to be resolved) and so i left it there and never invested in number five.

So how was the fifth book received? As I recall, the first volume was superb, the second not far off that, the third still good, but the fourth was going a little off song. Did the fifth reverse the trend?

If it did, and if there is the prospect of completion within a reasonable time, I may reinvest, although I'll need to re-read from the start again to revise the story details. Otherwise I will perhaps look to reinvest in 10 or 20 years time, when it's all done, assuming I'm still around by then!

 

[The Imp]

It's a long time since I read A Song of Ice and Fire. I got as far as the fourth book, but that was a few years ago and, while I can remember the major characters, I've forgotten a lot of the detail.

As I understand it, book five is now done, but the series is not yet finished.

Is there any word on when the whole project is likely to be completed? Are we looking at within the next five years, or beyond that? (It was taking five years per volume last I heard).

Despite the fact that the book remains unfinished, there was a kind of closure at the end of the fourth volume (even though a lot still needed to be resolved) and so i left it there and never invested in number five.

So how was the fifth book received? As I recall, the first volume was superb, the second not far off that, the third still good, but the fourth was going a little off song. Did the fifth reverse the trend?

If it did, and if there is the prospect of completion within a reasonable time, I may reinvest, although I'll need to re-read from the start again to revise the story details. Otherwise I will perhaps look to reinvest in 10 or 20 years time, when it's all done, assuming I'm still around by then!

The honest answer is that the 6th book The Winders of Winter is probably at least 2 years off, MAYBE 1.5 if we're very lucky. After that, assuming that GRRM ends in 7 books, we'd have to assume 3 years for the last book, assuming he's tightened things up a LOT in book 6, and resolved many of the )as of right now) unresolved plot lines. I think i counted at least 27 last time i tried.

The 5th book, A Dance With Dragons disappointed some, but i won't say why because of possibly giving you spoilers. As you may know, GRRM was kind of stuck at a certain part of the story, and ended up doing a complete re-write after being almost half done. Personally, i liked it better than most on first read, and a lot better after a re-read.

You COULD go to the Tower of the hand and find the chapter summaries, which are quite good. That would be the fast way to catch up as opposed to re-reading. I do recommend re-reading, as i've done that about 4 or 5 times now but it's a lot of material.

I think that the books will be done soon enough to meet your criteria. I suggest staying away from here until you've completed A Dance With Dragons though. Spoilers abound and can be inadvertent

 

[Landroval]

The honest answer is that the 6th book The Winders of Winter is probably at least 2 years off, MAYBE 1.5 if we're very lucky. After that, assuming that GRRM ends in 7 books, we'd have to assume 3 years for the last book, assuming he's tightened things up a LOT in book 6, and resolved many of the )as of right now) unresolved plot lines. I think i counted at least 27 last time i tried.

The 5th book, A Dance With Dragons disappointed some, but i won't say why because of possibly giving you spoilers. As you may know, GRRM was kind of stuck at a certain part of the story, and ended up doing a complete re-write after being almost half done. Personally, i liked it better than most on first read, and a lot better after a re-read.

You COULD go to the Tower of the hand and find the chapter summaries, which are quite good. That would be the fast way to catch up as opposed to re-reading. I do recommend re-reading, as i've done that about 4 or 5 times now but it's a lot of material.

I think that the books will be done soon enough to meet your criteria. I suggest staying away from here until you've completed A Dance With Dragons though. Spoilers abound and can be inadvertent

Thank you for that excellent advice and information. I hardly expected such a thorough, frank and professional reply. It looks like it's going to be a while then, but I can't really profess to be surprised at that. Maybe the TV series will serve as to motivate George to finish sooner rather than later, else he might have impatient TV types on his tail! Anyway, you are absolutely right about spoiler hazards, and I will try and heed your counsel.

 

[The Imp]

Thank you for that excellent advice and information. I hardly expected such a thorough, frank and professional reply. It looks like it's going to be a while then, but I can't really profess to be surprised at that. Maybe the TV series will serve as to motivate George to finish sooner rather than later, else he might have impatient TV types on his tail! Anyway, you are absolutely right about spoiler hazards, and I will try and heed your counsel.

I thank you for those kind words

Season 3 of Game of Thrones will cover about half of a Storm of Sowrds. Season 4- 2014 will be the scond half (I think). 2015 could be A feast for Crows 2016 ADance With Dragons, so you figure that they'll need the new book by early 2016 so they can get scripts done in time for fall production. The real problem would be if GRRM butts up against that deadline, as they'd be OK for the 5th season, but there's probably no way he gets the last book out in time for the 2018, assuming they'd need it by 2017. Again, i'm hoping that things will be easier for him as plot lines get resolved etc. he did NOT make nearly as much progress as most of us would have liked to have seen (in A dance With Dragons)

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

ADWD is an excellent book, and in my opinion more epic than any of the preceding books, you really travel the world with this one, and there are very intriguing debuts and demises by new characters, some of which will play big roles in TWoW.

I personally would not be able to end it at AFFC, because most of my favourite characters are featured in ADWD.

 

[juleska]

Echoing the above advice:

1) Definitely read ADWD. You may wish to even do a re-read of the series before going into ADWD. If you've only read it once you will pick up a LOT of things you missed the first time around (I sure did), which will make ADWD much easier to digest.

2) Definitely avoid this place until you've finished ADWD.

3) Come back when you're done.

 

[Werthead]

TWoW will likely be released by Christmas 2015, so still a way off. The seventh book will likely take 3-4 years after that point. I would not rule out the series expanding to eight volumes at this time.

 

[Boaz]

Landroval, I take it you're a Tolkien fan. Very nice.

Let me reiterate juleska's advice... beware even browsing the thread titles in this forum.

I'd like to know your impressions after you finish A Dance With Dragons.

Finally, always close attention to any post by Werthead. He's like Varys... he seems to know everything.

 

[biodroid]

Does re-reading not detract from the twists and plot in the series? I stop reading A Clash of Kings because of the tv show but would like to get back to it. Will it disappoint now that I know the plot from the show?

 

[juleska]

That's up to each reader's opinion, personal taste and experience, biodroid, but I can tell you that for me, rereading did not in any way detract from my experience of the twists of plot. There is SO much going on in these stories that no one (except perhaps Boaz) can keep track of it all simultaneously. I've only read the series twice so far and on my second read I garnered so much more information....even after I spent a good year on this board discussing and dissecting it all. What you have from the TV series would be major plot points, the moves of the Kings and the Queens on the chess table. You'll see all that again in the books, only this time you'll discover all the moves of the Bishops, Knights, Rooks and Pawns as well.

 

[biodroid]

Thx juleska, I really want to get back into it, was enjoying it a lot.

 

[The Imp]

That's up to each reader's opinion, personal taste and experience, biodroid, but I can tell you that for me, rereading did not in any way detract from my experience of the twists of plot. There is SO much going on in these stories that no one (except perhaps Boaz) can keep track of it all simultaneously. I've only read the series twice so far and on my second read I garnered so much more information....even after I spent a good year on this board discussing and dissecting it all. What you have from the TV series would be major plot points, the moves of the Kings and the Queens on the chess table. You'll see all that again in the books, only this time you'll discover all the moves of the Bishops, Knights, Rooks and Pawns as well.

In support of this

i've never been great at absorbing large ammounts of complex material on the first go round. I remember seeing the movie inception for the first time, and while I liked it, I left the theater feeling somewhat confused and lost. It was SO MUCH CLEARER when I saw it again. I'm not compariong aSoIaF to Inception, as I think that a slow and careful first read will allow the reader to undertsnad all that is going on, but in order to graps the subtleties, espcially when it comes to plot connections and foreshadowing, i think you almost HAVE to read it again.

Having said that i'm about to start re-watching Lost

 

[biodroid]

Imp, Lost is fantastic, i couldnt care what they said about the ending, it shocked me so much i literally didnt sleep for 2 days. I guess I can still read a clash of kings after watching season 2 is still appreciate the book, hopefully

 

[The Imp]

Imp, Lost is fantastic, i couldnt care what they said about the ending, it shocked me so much i literally didnt sleep for 2 days. I guess I can still read a clash of kings after watching season 2 is still appreciate the book, hopefully

I went into the ending expecting it to be horrible, as all of my friends that I had spoken to didn't like it. I thought it was one of the great endings in TV history.

You will absolutely LOVE reading aCoK, even after the show.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

TWoW will likely be released by Christmas 2015, so still a way off. The seventh book will likely take 3-4 years after that point. I would not rule out the series expanding to eight volumes at this time.

Really? Expand again to 8 books? Do you think George has lost his way a bit and can't finish it in 7? Just curious, as this is the first I've heard of this.

Does re-reading not detract from the twists and plot in the series? I stop reading A Clash of Kings because of the tv show but would like to get back to it. Will it disappoint now that I know the plot from the show?

I'll add another voice to those already, but I would definitely recommend reading it. The show is good, but not anywhere close to the books in detail and description. You may know what is going to happen, but I for one don't think this detracts at all. In a way it helps, because you can then pay more attention to the little things as you go. I've read the series 3 times now (well, all but ADWD), and it is still a page turner for me every time, even though I know what is going to happen.

 

[Boaz]

biodroid, There are a lot of scenes in ACOK that are omitted or combined by HBO because of time constraints. And then there are a couple of scenes that are inventions for the show that are not in the book. I'm trying real hard not to spoil this for you.

Did you like the Arya storyline from leaving KL to her escape from Harrenhal? If so, then I'll tell you that there is a lot more to it in the book.

Did you like the plot that puts Tyrion in charge of the entire government? If you did, then I'm pleased to inform you that the show only covered the most pertinent details... the book delves into lots of twists and turns.

Were you disappointed by Renly's indecision and lack of resolve? I think we all were, but I can tell you that Renly in the book is much more resolved, commanding, handsome... i.e. regal. And quick witted. And funny. And a better dresser.

Do you like to hate Joffrey and Cersei? You'll hate them even more from their actions in the book. I loooooove to hate Cersei. Especially a Cersei with more cleavage.

I will say that there is one scene in the show that was so well done that I wish Martin had included it in the book. I don't want to ruin the story for you... but I'll just say it was my favorite scene in the two seasons of AGOT.

 

[JoanDrake]

I've not read ASoIaF so I can't really pass judgement on it but I do know that an overconcern with spoilers is a sure sign of a shallow book. Suspense is part of reading a story, yes, but surely not the only part. It's sort of like not reading a new book on WWII because you know how it turns out.

Epic fantasy writers tend to write..ah...epics. Their readers like big stories with complicated plots and if their readers are willing to keep buying them new Mercedes and million dollar mansions who are they to argue? I predict Martin will keep milking the cash cow for as long as it yields buckets of money and who can blame him?

 

[Boaz]

Spoiler Alert!!! To Kill a Mockingbird. Cyrano de Bergerac.

I've not read ASoIaF so I can't really pass judgement on it but I do know that an overconcern with spoilers is a sure sign of a shallow book. Suspense is part of reading a story, yes, but surely not the only part.

Joan, I agree that suspense is an integral part, but I respectfully disagree about "an overconcern with spoilers." I realize you may have just been posting a thought regarding spoilers... but you've posted it here and I cannot let it pass, even though you said you're not judging, without a rebuttal.

In our age of instant information where everyone can publicize to the entire planet, I think it is respectful of fans to try and preserve the suspense for those who have not yet experienced the twists of the story.

The story, in my opinion, takes a new approach to epic fantasy. The tropes of epic fantasy are so well known that they have left it ripe for an author to twist the story and provide a fresh and unexpected tale. Yes, The Sword of Shanarra, The Belgariad, and The Dark Tower Trilogy are nothing more than retellings (plagiarism) of Tolkien's works. And new readers of A Song of Ice and Fire are probably expecting more of the same... but they're in for a surprise.

You can compare the mass of fantasy to the established outcome of the Second World War, but ASOIAF breaks the comparison/analogy rather completely. If ASOIAF were WW2, then it is currently 1942 and Hitler has been assasinated by Himmler who sent von Staufenberg to conquer Ireland. Mussolini has had a sex change and FDR was replaced by Alf Landon as President who has unleashed unrestricted submarine warfare upon the Soviets. Finally, in response to British requests for aid by opening up another front, Brazil and Iceland have allied and retaken Hong Kong. In short, it's a story that roots out the entrenched tropes.

But then again, it's fiction. It's supposed to be a surprise. History is something we grow up learning. We don't have to warn people that there are spoilers in the life Julius Caesar (March is a bad month), Henry VIII (he's a bad husband), or Marie Antoinette (she is uncaring).

Just think if the first publication of To Kill a Mockingbird was today. When we recommend it to our friends, would we not feel that we should keep silent that Tom is convicted and killed during his escape, that Bob Ewell tries to kill Jem but is in turn killed by Boo... and that the sheriff covers up the entire affair? If we were posting regarding Harper Lee's classic, would we not put warnings in our titles and posts that new readers should take care not to have the story spoiled?

What about Cyrano de Bergerac? Unrequited love provides the tension for the entire story. To tell a new reader that Roxane marries Christian, that Christian and the Gascons die to defend Roxane, and that Cyrano dies in the arms of Roxane at the very moment that she finds out it was him would ruin the story.

Great stories have plot twists that should not be revealed until the author does it himself. Can we call The Heart of Darkness, The Odyssey, Hamlet, 1984, Catch 22, and On the Road shallow because they have suspense that needs to be preserved for a first time audience? No.

If the story is a one trick pony, then I understand your comment. Ghost stories around the campfire are that shallow. Knock Knock jokes are that shallow. The Brady Bunch is that shallow. The Phantom Menace is that shallow. I could tell you the plot for TPM, but I feel dumber just thinking about it.

I think "overconcern" comes from a passion for the subject. Mothers are probably the best example that I can imagine. It's not that a mother's children are inept or stupid, it's the fact that she loves them more than her own life. I'm not saying I'm that passionate regarding Mr. Martin's epic fantasy, but I do enjoy it immensely. Am I overconcerned with preserving the experiential innocence of first time readers? Probably. But I know how much I enjoyed the experience and I wish it for them too.

Well, that's my two cents worth. Thank you for your time.

 

[biodroid]

As always I am in your debt Boaz, thanks for the motivation. I will read them regardless of watching the show which is fantastic and the books are better

 

[The Imp]

I've not read ASoIaF so I can't really pass judgement on it but I do know that an overconcern with spoilers is a sure sign of a shallow book. Suspense is part of reading a story, yes, but surely not the only part. It's sort of like not reading a new book on WWII because you know how it turns out.

Epic fantasy writers tend to write..ah...epics. Their readers like big stories with complicated plots and if their readers are willing to keep buying them new Mercedes and million dollar mansions who are they to argue? I predict Martin will keep milking the cash cow for as long as it yields buckets of money and who can blame him?

Part of what makes this a great series, one by the way that you are totally unqualified to comment on as you haven't read any of the books, is the plot twists that are at times so powerful that you might very well feel as if you had been punched in the gut. People who love the series and know that someone is experiencing these moments for the first time want that person to have the same powerful emotional experience that they did.

You say that "an overconcern with spoilers is a sure sign of a shallow book." Please explain why you think this is true, using literary examples so that we have a frame of reference. I'm REALLY curious to hear the logic behind that statement.

I'll end by saying that it's baffling to me that anyone could pass judgement on thousands of pages of literature that they haven't read, and then go on to pass judgement as to the motives of the author in writing said literature.