How to kill with Lightning Bolts in a sensible, no-nonsense fashion.

[Tecdavid]

So, there's a scene in my WiP that consists of a protagonist group squaring off against a horde of airborne demons, beneath a blustering storm. I wanted to make use of the elemental-magic theme I've got going, and so a few heroes formulate a plan: One character heralds rain down from the storm, thus drenching the horde, before another heralds lightning from it, leading the bolts to dart from foe to foe, quickly killing many of them. Now, I know the laws of nature can be bent considerably in fantasy, but if any realism were to be employed, would that work? Would the demons need to be grounded in order to be electrocuted? Would their sogginess conduct the electricity through them? Can lightning harm airborne creatures at all, or am I getting confused?

Or, would the fact that two characters are plucking rain and lightning from the sky stop anyone from really caring?

 

[chrispenycate]

Working with everyday physics, drenching them would cause as much lightning to flow round them as it would reduce skin resistance. Zero sum game, about.

On the other hand, if their skins were, say, salty, so the rain running of them was lower resistance than rain falling directly to ground (distilled water, ie. rain with minimal pollution, is quite high impedance and dialectric constant), it would make them better targets for electricity. I don't think demons sweat, but they tend to come from fairly dry territory, and I don't think they bathe much, so a water-soluble conductive dust coating is not unthinkable. Conductive spikes would be good, too.

The main reason that an aircraft can be struck by lightning with no permanent damage (I've been in one when it was; scary) is that its metal skin is so much lower impedance than everything round it no worthwhile voltage develops, and the instruments (except the radio) are enclosed in a Faraday shield. Depending on skin structure of a demon, this would not necessarily be the case; current flow through internal organs might easily be the shortest circuit. And that just has to be uncomfortable. The only birds I've ever heard of being sruck by lightning have been on power pylons, church steeples or radio towers, essentially grounded, so I don't think flying creatures tend to attract the charges, but most birds don't much like flying in storms anyway, reason of lack of control and getting soaking wet, so not much evidence one way or the other. The only delta-wing flyer I know crazy enough to use cumulonimbus updraughts to gain altitude has never been stuck by lightning, so he's not much use as a reference, either (three phase overhead power cables, yes, but that was wind shear). I wonder if you could use wind shear against demons?

If you have a stable cumulonimbus structure (or a tornado) it is a chaotic system; it would involve quite small amounts of energy (but massive amounts of information) to direct it. Obviously, if you had to produce your thunderhead from a clear sky, this would be a very different problem.

 

[Biskit]

Few basic physicy things:
1: Lot of power in a lightning strike. I am sure plenty would go through a wet demon as well as following the surface moisture, providing your demon does conduct electricity.
2: Depending on the design of your demon, they could have a high conductivity, which would get a nice, unhealthy current flowing.
3: You should consider collateral damage. I have this lurking memory that a significant cause of injury during a lightning storm is from standing too close to trees. If a tree is hit, the current through the wood causes heating, which causes steam inside the wood which then explodes. The splinter shrapnel is nasty stuff, and I find myself picturing demons taken out by shrapnel from their exploding neighbours. (The 1974 bombing at the Tower of London was notable for the wood splinter injuries from the gun carriages. The reports I read many years ago do not appear to be available on line, but a passing reference can be found within http://cidbimena.desastres.hn/pdf/eng/doc3083/doc3083-contenido.pdf)

 

[prizzley]

Working with everyday physics

I know nothing about physics, but my understanding is that lightning strikes the tallest object around. To minimise damage, you need the lightening to ground and pass through your body quickly. So, the advice is get on your hands and knees and stretch your arms in front, to maximise contact with the ground.

Airborne demons would therefore be vulnerable. For humans - a strike might stop the heart, stop breathing and cause organ and tissue damage. For demons ???

 

[Drakai]

I highly doubt that a lightning burst would target an airborne creature but maybe the mages can guide the lightning to demons? That could work.

 

[skynes]

Seeing as they're demons, if you have the flaming demon type, water alone would be a nasty exposure for them. Demons stereotypically are related to sulphur. Doesn't mixing sulphur with water produce suplhuric acid?

Alternative, combo the rain spell with a cleric to have it rain holy water.

If I was reading it, I wouldn't care, one making it rain and one guiding blasts of electricity to fry them is awesome.

 

[JoanDrake]

Lightning is strange. I hear so many conflicting things about it.

I'd look at the below and make up my own mind. I get the idea that ground dwelling drenched demons are toast in any case while flying demons should have FAA approval.

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm

http://tamutimes.tamu.edu/2012/05/16/lightning-often-hits-airplanes/

and remember Ernest Borgnine in The Devil's Rain

http://freethoughtblogs.com/zingularity/files/2012/07/devilsrain7.jpg

 

[Biskit]

For those of a nervous disposition, please close your eyes as I go all sciency:


Physics:

Lightning does not necessarily strike the tallest object around, although for practical purposes this often appears to be true. As I recall, the initial 'direction' for a lightning strike is from the ground upwards, and it goes from the point of 'least resistance', and the point where the electric field is strongest. Ignoring all of the other wierd things you get with lightning, put a tall pole of wood next to one of metal of the same height and the lightning 'ought' to go for the metal. I wouldn't bet my life on that, though.

Very small electric shocks will stop the heart. Once you get up to the sort of current involved in a lightning strike, the damage mechanism is predominantly heating.

Airborne is more complicated and in a simplistic sense, it does not happen. Lightning goes from a point of 'high potential' to 'low potential' and something floating in the air is really neither. On the other hand, a lightning strike 'on the move' will either go around an obstacle, or through it, depending on circumstances and the composition of the obstacle.
As I recall, lightning strikes can be cloud-cloud as well as cloud-ground.
Many years ago, I saw a demo with a large Rumkopf coil generating a spark many centimetres long - basically a baby, continuous lightning strike. When a sheet of paper was placed in the path, the spark diverted around the paper. After a while, the spark 'found' a path through the paper and, when the paper was examined afterwards, it had a pattern of tiny pin holes burnt through.

Chemistry:

Mixing sulphur and water does not give sulphuric acid. You burn sulphur in oxygen to get a mixture of di- and tri-oxides. You use clever and expensive catalysts to force the reaction towards the trioxide. When the tri-oxide is disolved in water, you have sulphuric acid. To get really technical, dissolving sulphur trioxide in water is quite difficult and it is much easier to disolve it into concentrated sulphuric acid to produce what is refered to as fuming sulphuric acid which can then be diluted with water. I know it sounds a bit chicken-and-egg, but that's the practical (and industrial) reality.

 

[Darth Angelus]

I do not really know the physics of lightning (it seems a bit complicated), but I would say you should not worry too much about this. Magic is, per definition, sort of bending the laws of nature to your will. After all, a fireball wouldn't really fly through the air without any fuel to keep it alive, either (there must be some fuel burning, or a fire dies).
Just assume that the caster wills the path to the target to be the path of least resistance (or however it works), but do not necessarily state it outright. A spell casting a lightning bolt presumably means willing electrical charges to be set up in a certain way, or something like that.

My point is, trying to integrate too much physics into magic can be a messy story. I would just search the web for articles about lightning, and then go from there. Try to make it as authentic as possible, but do not worry about the precise physical laws around it, because magic will have bent those, anyway.

Good luck!

 

[skynes]

Mixing sulphur and water does not give sulphuric acid. You burn sulphur in oxygen to get a mixture of di- and tri-oxides. You use clever and expensive catalysts to force the reaction towards the trioxide. When the tri-oxide is disolved in water, you have sulphuric acid. To get really technical, dissolving sulphur trioxide in water is quite difficult and it is much easier to disolve it into concentrated sulphuric acid to produce what is refered to as fuming sulphuric acid which can then be diluted with water. I know it sounds a bit chicken-and-egg, but that's the practical (and industrial) reality.

Oh well.

Good info there, thanks for the post.

 

[Biskit]

Of course, there's no telling how easily a demon might be converted to sulphuric acid, and the consequences of a demon exploding into a cloud of acid might be worth considering.

There was an account I read in my teens which, amazingly, has references on the web. In 1972(? 1969? reports of the date vary) an accident involving a tanker of oleum (another name for fuming sulphuric acid) killed a motorist who walked through the 'fog'. From what I recall of a more detailed account than I have found online, the 'fog' was partially comprised of sulphuric acid.

A ref to this comes up in "New Scientist - 5 May 1977 - Page 262 - Google Books Result" which I got to by searching on "tanker accident fuming sulphuric acid oleum". There must be a way of getting a direct link, but life is too short and no one pays me to figure out computers any more.

Other refs come up such as
http://danny-lorryday.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/adr-melted-nurse.html

 

[Mirannan]

AFAIK, dissolving SO3 in water isn't difficult at all. It's damn dangerous, however.

On the original subject, I wouldn't imagine that having a lightning bolt travel over your skin would be all that pleasant - particularly for anything with ears. The bolt is at around thirty thousand degrees; unless the creature is completely resistant to fire it's going to get badly burned. And, of course, the sound of a lightning bolt right next to you is going to make you temporarily deaf - at least.

 

[MstrTal]

Can you use wind magic to stick each of the demons with an iron dart? Sort of like a lightning rod. Give that magic a good ole target perhaps? That way if the 1st blast doesn't do them in the next few zaps would.

 

[Sapheron]

Lightning doesn't have to hit you to kill you, I thought. Even a strike nearby can be dangerous, though which bit of the process exactly causes the damage in this case I don't know.

 

[Stephen4444]

Can lightning harm airborne creatures at all, or am I getting confused?

Or, would the fact that two characters are plucking rain and lightning from the sky stop anyone from really caring?

In a concise answer "Yes" and "No," I think the following video will give you fodder to chew over... for your scene. This video includes a helicopter and a team checking high voltage lines... WHILE THEY'RE LIVE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzga6qAaBA

 

[Biskit]

AFAIK, dissolving SO3 in water isn't difficult at all. It's damn dangerous, however.

Depends on where you draw the line between difficult and dangerous. It gets very hot, very fast and you end up with a fog of acid that's difficult to control. When you dilute the fuming sulphuric acid with water it still gets hot but is easier to do in a controlled fashion.

 

[Tecdavid]

Thanks for the help, everyone. I, er... honestly learnt a lot more here than I expected to.

Don't worry about the demons in question either; I have my own rules permitting just how readily they can burn.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

My understanding is that in order to cause damage lightning must pass through a person, and this normally happens when a person is grounded. In the air a demon is not grounded so I would doubt that being hit - which is possible, would do much damage to them.

However consider a slightly different scenario. Get rid of the rain, it's just an annoyance, and instead have your weather wizard conjuring up wind. Lightning is created essentially by movement, movement of the wind over the land, movement of different masses against one another. Essentially its a gigantic static charge like the one you get from rubbing skin against cheap synthetic shirts. So creating good solid air currents is a way of charging the air so that there's plenty of juice in it.

Then, if he can create lightning in this way he can also use that same power to knock the flying demons out of the air. So the air is charged, he blows the demons to the ground with a gale, and the instantthey touch the ground, the lightning is released leaving you with Kentuck Fried Demon!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Biskit]

Another passing thought for you - ball lightning. You don't need to worry about how it works, because no one has figured it out. If you've got demons, and perhaps a touch of magic, why not a bit of ball lightning.

 

[nubins]

If you have rules about how your demons burn then factor in that a lightning bolt is actually hotter than the surface of the sun.

Which always confused me as to why it doesnt slice through people like a .. well.. a knife hotter than temperature of the sun through meat.