WIP-800 words or so:it sounds a little too sappy but I'm too close

[Stephen4444]

This is around 800 words or so, and in the middle of my WIP. Agatha is a spy… though we don't know it until later in the story. I'm trying to introduce her into the story, humanize her, and give a little rational/motivation of why she does what she will do. When I read this, it sounds a little too sappy but I'm too close to make an objective call. I need an opinion on whether to continue on, or change it altogether. If there is any issue, (grammar or whatnot,) please let me know. Thanks.

****************************************************************************

The tiles were looking good, which was rare. The blue often looked grungy when the least bit of sand sets upon it. The constant sandy dust that had worked its way into everything, also worked its way... sometimes into her heart. The type of fine powdery sand that gunk's up the works and slowly grinds down the youth and shine to reveal the stuff that lays just beneath. Mayhap the heart is not so shiny; mayhap the soul is not so new anymore.

It works contradictory to what you might think was true. The field outside of the winter palace was green, but they're located close enough to the AN Nafud for the wind to play havoc with the dust.

The tiles were not hard to clean; in fact, she had found it meditative sometimes... to look into the constant swirl of ever-changing designs. For some reason, the masons and technicians brought in to build this fortress could not make art in the conventional sense. It was not right with their religion, to produce art that imitates life. They made fine designs that did not show the vanity of man, nor his likeness. Agatha could not see how such a religion could last very long. The religion went about this for six hundred years. By the time of construction, it was on the wane.

Out of respect for them as well as her masters, she remained from under toe until the winter house was completed. That took fifteen, long, years. Through that time, she came to know a young artisan that was talented, very talented. His name was David. While he laid the floors, he smiled, and a look would make her heart flutter. Every chance she brought water to him, and talked quietly, secretly to him; as too not raise the mire of his masters. One night she snuck into his tent.

For a reason that she could not explain, Agatha had felt the need to talk to him, even if that meant in the dark... even if they had to whisper... even if they might be caught and punished severely. Subsequently after that night, Agatha soul was happy and David's smile seemed to come more often. Some may say, "they were growing in love." Agatha's heart and soul was polished, and she showed brightly.

That was long ago and Agatha had to put that happy thought back in its place. From the distance, she heard the call of the head-wife. With a sigh, she laid down the brush to attend the Crone. In her mind, she said the sing-song saying that she would never have sung aloud. The old crone, there in her old crone's chair, looks about for a life.

When Agatha approached the perch, she heard the incessant whining,

"Again Chaucer has left me a mess… and he never, ever takes the time to attend our needs. What is he about, leaving this barbarian with run of the house?"

Agatha looked through the lattice, at the pool, a level below.

"Agatha, Agatha, bring me some proper tea. My throat is parched."

"Why, of course."

The teakettle and stand were in the corner and Agatha poured hot water, then steeped the tea.

"That Ailuj -she keeps staring at that man as if she would like to eat him."

The Crones best friend and fellow wife started in,

"That girl has no couth and may need a lesson."

The Crone had wanted someone else to agree with her, so she asked,
"Agatha what do you think?"

In ignorance, she opened her mouth.

"I think the girl is harmless. All the others are looking at him also. Only they are old enough to know how to have more 'couth.' I am sure they are all curious and I see no harm in that."

"No harm?"

The Head Wife, Lossa twisted in her perch so the full brunt of her stare captured her face fully.

"I see this as a major issue... furthermore I want you to retrieve Lord Howard so I may conference with him about this disruption."

Agatha stared at the tiles below her feet. Slowly she nodded and backed toward the door.

Howard she wants, Howard she gets.

Agatha took the spiral staircase down to the kitchens. Often she went there when she needed a break. No wives, no lords, and best of all, there resides other servants just like me. She wanted no part of Lossas treachery.

 

[The Judge]

Stephen, the font you chose was a bit on the tiny side, so I've taken the liberty of increasing it so it's more legible -- I should hate anyone to be put off critiquing the extract because it hurt their eyes.

I don't know about sappy, but I have to say the piece did nothing at all for me. Your style isn't one that I warm to, and the dialogue is for me too stylised to be realistic. There are also a great many errors of punctuation, spelling and word choice which make it difficult for me to settle. I'll have a go at nit-picking it to show you, but that will take a little time, so I'll do it in a separate post.

 

[Stephen4444]

Stephen, the font you chose was a bit on the tiny side, so I've taken the liberty of increasing it so it's more legible

Thank You.

 

[The Judge]

red = suggested amendment
[blue] = suggested deletion
[purple] = comment

The tiles were looking good, which was rare. [to me this reads as unfinished so I'd make it "a rare event" or something of that kind, but I'd avoid the "were" and "was" in one sentence if possible] The blue often looked grungy [that's a very modern-seeming word, so if this isn't set in the modern day I'd think twice about using it] when the least bit of sand set upon it. The constant sandy dust that [had] worked its way into everything, also worked its way... [why the ellipses?] sometimes into her heart. [I really don't understand that line] The type of fine powdery sand [that's the third sand/sandy in 3 lines] that gunk[']s [no apostrophe, it's just a normal verb; but "gunk" is another modern word which seems out of place, plus it has a feel of gumminess/glueyness which is at odds with fine powder] up the works and slowly grinds down [to me gunks up and grinds down are at odds -- I'd drop the first and concentrate on the grinding] the youth and shine to reveal the stuff that lies [lays] just beneath. Mayhap the heart is not so shiny; mayhap the soul is not so young [new] [suggested to link better with youth and shine] anymore.

It works contradictory to what you might think was true. [a very clunky sentence and I really don't know what it is meant to mean viz-a-viz the sand. And why is it here, at the beginning of a paragraph which has apparently nothing to do with it?] The field outside [of] the winter palace [I'd suggest capital W and P if this is an important place] was green, but they ['] were [otherwise this is a lurch into present tense] located close enough to the AN Nafud for the wind to play havoc with the dust. [um... no... the wind plays havoc with keeping the place clean, the dust itself isn't worried by it]

The tiles were not hard to clean; [so much for gunking up] in fact, she [had] found the cleaning [it] meditative [I'm not sure the adjective is right here] sometimes...[non sequitur -- hardness of cleaning has nothing to do with the meditative effects]to look into the constant swirl of ever-changing designs. [how are they ever-changing?] For some reason, the masons and technicians [?technicians??] brought in to build the [this] ["this" is too present-tensey] fortress could not make art in the conventional sense. [??] It was contrary to [not right with] [or something like "did not accord with" -- "was not right" sounds a little childish in the midst of this] their religion, to produce art that imitated life. Instead, [added for flow and rhythm's sake] they made fine designs that did not show the vanity of man, nor his likeness. Agatha could not see how such a religion could last [very long.] but it had endured [The religion went about this] [repetition ungainly, and "went about this" again a bit simplistic] for six hundred years, though [again, suggested amendments help flow and connect the sentences better] by the time of the Palace's construction, it was on the wane.

Out of respect for them as well as her masters, she remained from under toe [? I really don't know what this is trying to say. ?Under foot? But what does this mean -- she lodged elsewhere? Why not say so?] until the winter house [is this the same as the fortress/Winter Palace? If so, why the change of name? If not, I suggest giving a very different name to avoid confusion] was completed. That took fifteen [,] long [,] [no commas] years. Through that time, [he took 15 years to lay the floors??] she came to know a young artisan who [that] was talented, very talented. His name was David. While he laid the floors, he smiled, and a look from him would make her heart flutter. Every chance she could, she brought water [to him,] [to avoid repetition] and talked to him, but [your way round it means she talks to him so as not to raise their ire, whereas it's the quietly part which is relevant to that] quietly, secretly [to him] so [;] as too not raise the ire [mire] [mire means mud] of his masters. One night she snuck into his tent. [this really jars, as a short discrete sentence stuck on the end of the para. I suggest you take it from here and link it better with the following sentence]

[For a reason that she could not explain,] [suggest dumping as it adds nothing] Agatha had felt the need to talk to him, even if that meant in the dark... even if they had to whisper... even if they might be caught and punished severely. [Subsequently] After that night, [tautologous] Agatha's soul was happy and David's smile seemed to come [I'd suggest a stronger verb eg "shone"] more often. Some [who? Why say that here? Who is narrating this?] may say, "they were growing in love." [I'd suggest dumping that sentence as it adds nothing] Agatha's heart and soul was polished, [um... that image doesn't work for me, I have to say]and she showed brightly. [and...??]

That was long ago and Agatha had to put that happy thought [um...] back in its place. [Eh? Then why tell us all about it at such length if it has no bearing on any of what follows?] [From the distance,] She heard the call of the head-wife from the [whatever-]room. ["From the distance" isn't correct English, "in the distance" or "from afar" or a specific place, but in any event, putting it before "she" means that place is where she hears it, not where the sound originates] With a sigh, she laid down the brush to attend the Crone. [giving this a capital seems very odd] In her mind, she repeated [said] [since she isn't saying it in fact] the sing-song saying that she would never have sung aloud. The old crone, there in her old crone's chair, looks about for a life. [um... as a bit of doggerel it leaves something to be desired]

When Agatha approached the perch, [?perch??] she heard the incessant whining. [the comma is best avoided there where the speaker isn't the person beginning the sentence]

"Again Chaucer has left me a mess… and he never, ever takes the time to attend our needs. What is he about, leaving this barbarian with run of the house?"

Agatha looked through the lattice, at the pool, a level below. [why? Is that where the old woman is?]

"Agatha, Agatha, bring me some proper tea. My throat is parched."

"Why, of course." [doesn't read as very respectful or natural somehow]

The teakettle and stand were in the corner. [and] Agatha poured hot water, then steeped the tea.

"That Ailuj [the name rather jars after Agatha and David] - [that's a hyphen, not the longer dash you need] she keeps staring at that man as if she would like to eat him."

The Crone's [apostrophe needed] best friend and fellow wife started in, [bit slangy for the tone of the rest] [NB keep all this in one line as it's the same sentence] "That girl has no couth [if you mean refinement, I'd use that instead] and may [well, if she's got none, shouldn't that be she does need it?] need a lesson."

The Crone [had] wanted someone else to agree with her, so she asked,
"Agatha, what do you think?"

In ignorance, [who is telling this?] Agatha spoke. [she opened her mouth.] [the name helps as the Crone was the last named person, and "opened her mouth" isn't a synonym for speaking so it's ambiguous]

"I think the girl is harmless. All the others are looking at him also. Only they are old enough to know how to have [very clunky] more 'couth.' [why the inverted commas?] I am sure they are all curious and I see no harm in that." [she's been with the family more than 15 years and she doesn't know not to contradict the Head Wife?]

"No harm?"

The Head Wife, [you don't need to repeat this -- you've told us once. And if she has a name, why is she "the Crone" before?] Lossa twisted in her perch [?perch again? What is she sitting on?] so Agatha faced the full brunt of her stare. [captured her face fully.] [um... that really doesn't make sense, I'm afraid]

"I see this as a major issue... [why the ellipses?] Furthermore, [why "furthermore"? That would only be appropriate if she'd asked her to do something else] I want you to retrieve [I really think a better verb is needed there] Lord Howard so I may confer[ence] [conference is the noun, not the verb] with him about this disruption."[Are you sure you mean "disruption"?]

Agatha stared at the tiles below her feet. Slowly she nodded and backed toward the door.

Howard she wants, Howard she gets.

Agatha took the spiral staircase down to the kitchens. Often she went there when she needed a break. [so why isn't she off getting Howard?] No wives, no lords, and best of all, there resides [I don't think you actually mean they live in the kitchens, do you?] other servants just like me. She wanted no part of Lossa's [apostrophe needed] treachery. [why treachery? And that's a bit of a loaded word for a spy to use]

I found this extract rather disjointed and odd. I'm rather assuming the tiles of the beginning are floor tiles, hence her thinking of David, who laid them, but it would have been easier if you had made the link explicit. Even then, though, why write at such length about the sand? Why the info-dump about the builder's religion? I know Islamic art has the same prohbition, hence the beautiful geometric shapes in their floor tiling, but this doesn't seem particularly relevant. And why all of that digression into the non-affair, anyway, since it doesn't impact or illuminate the following scene?

For me the way you plunge into italicised direct thought regardless of need is too much and had the effect of making me impatient with her. I also didn't find this particularly helpful in assessing her character -- she seems oddly simple, if not downright simple-minded, at times, which is surely at odds with her being a spy.

You have a habit of using words which are odd or even outright wrong in context, often ones which I imagine you wouldn't use in daily life, as if you're trying to write in an old-fashioned, excessively-educated way, and it does rather jar, especially when juxtaposed with some very basic words and constructions. If you're not 100% sure of a word, check it out, or use one which is simpler, perhaps.

Sorry I couldn't be more enthusiastic about this piece, but style is very much a personal preference, of course. Good luck with it, anyway.


NB In my earlier post I mentioned mistakes of spelling, but whatever I thought I'd seen on a speed-read, I can't find it again, so ignore that.

 

[JoanDrake]

You say it's not an introduction but in the middle of the piece so if the objective is to set a sort of dreamy mood in this part of the story I can find little fault with it. Whether it's "sappy" or not is hard to tell as I'm unsure what you mean by that and it may be that is part of the mood you're trying to set

I would expect a spy to have more circumspection than to outright disagree with a superior when that superior asks a loaded question. However, that may be her character, need more info.

 

[Stephen4444]

The constant sandy dust that [had] worked its way into everything, also worked its way... [why the ellipses?]

Temporal discontinuity can be expressed by the deliberate use of ellipses. Also I use it as a timing mechanism. When reading (as if someone is having a thought or a broken dream or (day-dream.)) It can have a surreal or jarring effect, as though words trailing off into thought... remembering you were talking to someone. "BANG" start the conversation again.

sometimes into her heart. [I really don't understand that line] The type of fine powdery sand [that's the third sand/sandy in 3 lines] that gunk[']s [no apostrophe, it's just a normal verb; but "gunk" is another modern word which seems out-of-place, plus it has a feel of gumminess/glueyness which is at odds with fine powder] up the works and slowly grinds down [to me gunks up and grinds down are at odds -- I'd drop the first and concentrate on the grinding]

I write a lot of poetry, thus I have a propensity to unnecessarily repeat or rhyme words.

I feel that sand and grit represents part of a basic theme throughout my story that gets repeated in several places, and thematically several times. In this case representing time, and how it wears on a person body and soul.An instance of using a word, phrase, or clause more than once in a short passage--dwelling on a point. Repetition can be an effective rhetorical strategy for achieving emphasis. But pleonasm can cause clutter, and distract/bore a reader. I'm interested to see if anyone else feels as you do about this one passage. I'm also interested to see if others have an issue with mixing the old style of writing with modern terms/ slang.

to look into the constant swirl of ever-changing designs. [how are they ever-changing?]

"No two tiles were alike." sounds clunky. And I wanted to imply the meditative effect of her scrubbing the floor.

That was long ago and Agatha had to put that happy thought [um...] back in its place. [Eh? Then why tell us all about it at such length if it has no bearing on any of what follows?]

It has no bearing on the immediate scene, but lays foundation for a later scene. I put it here as part of our introduction to the character, and to show who she is.

The old crone, there in her old crone's chair, looks about for a life. [um... as a bit of doggerel it leaves something to be desired]

Do you suggest changing this, or deleting it altogether. It sets up the "crone" not being one of Agatha's faves. She mocks and makes fun of her,(in secret.)

"I see this as a major issue... [why the ellipses?] Furthermore, [why "furthermore"? That would only be appropriate if she'd asked her to do something else]

"Furthermore" is a habitual saying of this character. I equate this to someone from California saying "Dude" repetitiously.

Agatha took the spiral staircase down to the kitchens. Often she went there when she needed a break. [so why isn't she off getting Howard?]

She is being naughty.

No wives, no lords, and best of all, there resides [I don't think you actually mean they live in the kitchens, do you?]

http://janeaustensworld.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/the-servants-quarters-in-19th-century-country-houses-like-downton-abbey/

The ground plan from Eastbury Manor House is representative of a great house. It shows the servant quarters at the right near tight round servant stairs, or back stairs, that the servants used instead of the grand staircase reserved for the family and their guests. Maids were expected to work invisibly and sweep and dust when the family was asleep, or work in a room when the family was not scheduled to use it. In fact, many of the lower servants never encountered the family during their years of service.

I think they would live near the kitchen, under or near the back stair cases.

I found this extract rather disjointed and odd. I'm rather assuming the tiles of the beginning are floor tiles, hence her thinking of David, who laid them, but it would have been easier if you had made the link explicit. Even then, though, why write at such length about the sand? Why the info-dump about the builder's religion? I know Islamic art has the same prohbition, hence the beautiful geometric shapes in their floor tiling, but this doesn't seem particularly relevant. And why all of that digression into the non-affair, anyway, since it doesn't impact or illuminate the following scene?

It plays out later in the story. David is a character, (going by another name,) their relationship will be revealed when she calls him "David" instead of the moniker he now caries. It also reveals who he is and how he knows what he does about the Winter Palace.

For me the way you plunge into italicised direct thought regardless of need is too much and had the effect of making me impatient with her. I also didn't find this particularly helpful in assessing her character -- she seems oddly simple, if not downright simple-minded, at times, which is surely at odds with her being a spy.

How much thought do you think I should curtail? The character is simple, but simple does not mean stupid, (Andy Griffith for example.) Do I need to make her Einstein? If she acted smart, would everyone not pay attention to her? The stupid bumbling character, (that you would not expect,) a spy?
Remember, I have not revealed she is a spy, (yet.) Should I make her actions or speech more intelligent?

You have a habit of using words which are odd or even outright wrong in context, often ones which I imagine you wouldn't use in daily life, as if you're trying to write in an old-fashioned, excessively-educated way, and it does rather jar, especially when juxtaposed with some very basic words and constructions. If you're not 100% sure of a word, check it out, or use one which is simpler, perhaps.

Thank you, for your advice. I am still finding my voice. Do you think I can find a way to combine modern with the old style of prose? How can you find a happy medium?

NB In my earlier post I mentioned mistakes of spelling, but whatever I thought I'd seen on a speed-read, I can't find it again, so ignore that.

Thanks again for your help. As you can see, I need it.

 

[Stephen4444]

I would expect a spy to have more circumspection than to outright disagree with a superior when that superior asks a loaded question. However, that may be her character, need more info.

You are the deciding vote. I will take out the disagreement.

Thanks for your help.

I know... about the multiple quotes. I think you deserve your own reply.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Um, sorry, I am with the judge. The mix of modern and archaic jarred with me, the sand didn't seem to go anywhere and I started to switch off.

I know crits of that level of detail are difficult (I generally need to lie down for about a week and eat virtual cake) but they tend to be the ones I hold onto to and often find I learn most from.

Your piece had some nice imagery, was imaginative, but there were areas where it coud be sleeker, less jarring, and TJ has picked up on these.

In terms of intelligence a spy can act not- smart but I think her thoughts should be very smart, esp. If she is using the cover of not being smart to hide her identity, and this, for me, was missing.

But, like i say, some nice imagery and - crucially - loads smoother and more engaging than your earlier posts. Good luck with it.

 

[Stephen4444]

Um, sorry, I am with the judge. The mix of modern and archaic jarred with me, the sand didn't seem to go anywhere and I started to switch off.

Thanks for your observations. It is nice to get conformation of a particular point of view.

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

This is around 800 words or so, and in the middle of my WIP. Agatha is a spy… though we don't know it until later in the story. I'm trying to introduce her into the story, humanize her, and give a little rational/motivation of why she does what she will do. When I read this, it sounds a little too sappy but I'm too close to make an objective call. I need an opinion on whether to continue on, or change it altogether. If there is any issue, (grammar or whatnot,) please let me know. Thanks.

****************************************************************************

The tiles were looking good, which was rare. The blue often looked grungy when the least bit of sand sets settled upon it. The constant sandy dust that had worked its way into everything, also worked its way... sometimes into her heart. The type of fine powdery sand that gunk's modern word wrong grammar up modern phrase and slowly grinds down the youth and shine to reveal the stuff that lays just beneath. Mayhap the heart is not so shiny; mayhap the soul is not so new anymore.

It works contradictory contradictorily (clumsy) to what you might think was true. The field outside of the winter palace was green, but they're located close enough to the AN Nafud for the wind to play havoc with the dust. Awkward constructions

The tiles were not hard to clean; in fact, she had found it meditative sometimes... to look into the constant swirl of ever-changing designs. For some reason, the masons and technicians brought in to build this fortress could not make art in the conventional sense. It was not right with their religion, to produce art that imitates life. They made fine designs that did not show the vanity of man, nor his likeness. Agatha could not see how such a religion could last very long. The religion went about this for six hundred years. By the time of construction, it was on the wane. An obvious and rather lengthy reference to Islam. (1)

Out of respect for them as well as her masters, she remained from under toe foot until the winter house was completed. That took fifteen, long, years. Why the commas? And 15 years seems an awfully long time for a spy to be in place. Through that time, she came to know a young artisan that was talented, very talented. His name was David Seems a very Anglo-centric name for a story like this. While he laid the floors, he smiled, and a look would make her heart flutter. Every chance she brought water to him, and talked quietly, secretly to him; as too not raise the mire of his masters. One night she snuck sneaked into his tent.

For a reason that she could not explain, Agatha had felt the need to talk to him, even if that meant in the dark... even if they had to whisper... even if they might be caught and punished severely. Hopefully you've already made it clear why anybody would care. Subsequently after that night, Agatha soul was happy and David's smile seemed to come more often. Some may say, "they were growing in love." Agatha's heart and soul was polished, and she showed brightly.

That was long ago and Agatha had to put that happy thought back in its place. From the distance, she heard the call of the head-wife. With a sigh, she laid down the brush to attend the Crone. In her mind, she said the sing-song saying that she would never have sung aloud. The old crone, there in her old crone's chair, looks about for a life.

When Agatha approached the perch, she heard the incessant whining,

"Again Chaucer Another Anglo-centric name has left me a mess… and he never, ever takes the time to attend our needs. What is he about, leaving this barbarian with run of the house?"

Agatha looked through the lattice, at the pool, a level below.

"Agatha, Agatha, bring me some proper tea. My throat is parched."

"Why, of course." Sounds insufficiently polite.

The teakettle and stand were in the corner and Agatha poured hot water, then steeped the tea.

"That Ailuj -she keeps staring at that man as if she would like to eat him."

The Crones best friend and fellow wife started in,

"That girl has no couth and may need a lesson."

The Crone had wanted someone else to agree with her, so she asked,
"Agatha what do you think?"

In ignorance Temporary insanity more like, she opened her mouth.

"I think the girl is harmless. All the others are looking at him also. Only they are old enough to know how to have more 'couth.' I am sure they are all curious and I see no harm in that." Agatha should really have more sense than to say anything controversial

"No harm?"

The Head Wife, Lossa twisted in her perch so the full brunt of her stare captured her face fully.

"I see this as a major issue... furthermore I want you to retrieve Lord Howard Another Anglo-centric name so I may conference with him about this disruption."
You don't explain why the Crone is making such a big deal of this.
Agatha stared at the tiles below her feet. Slowly she nodded and backed toward the door.

Howard she wants, Howard she gets.

Agatha took the spiral staircase down to the kitchens. Often she went there when she needed a break. No wives, no lords, and best of all, there resides reside other servants just like me. She wanted no part of Lossas treachery.

First impressions are that it's interesting and doesn't contain over-used fantasy tropes, but there are a number of faults.
There are a number of fairly elementary faults of grammar, most of which I have marked. (Those of us who have been to grammar school think rather rude thoughts when confronted with this sort of thing )
I don't mind the rather mannered prose, which could be seen as suitable for this sort of story. However you have used a number of modern words and phrases, which seem out of place here.
(I have experimented with using modern idioms in other-world fantasy myself, on the grounds that they're the equivalent of what my characters would be saying in their language, but have found that readers just don't like it.)
The use of English-sounding names too seems curious and a mistake, as the impression given is that the setting is exotic.
(1) Why the curious reference to 'six hundred years' and 'could not see how such a religion could last very long'? Six hundred years seems like a success story, and why does she think it can't last?
If your character is a spy, she can be clever, but should never draw attention to herself.
Overall, you should persevere with this, but it needs some sorting out.

 

[The Judge]

Temporal discontinuity can be expressed by the deliberate use of ellipses.

Granted -- and I use them to show a trailing off. But I think you need to be careful how you use them, as (for me, anyway) they can quickly become an irritating quirk of the writing, drawing attention to itself, rather than the story.

I write a lot of poetry, thus I have a propensity to unnecessarily repeat or rhyme words.

Um... my bolding, but... Nothing should be repeated unnecessarily. I use repetition a lot, so I'm not averse to it, but it has to be controlled to serve the needs of the story, and not appear that the same word is being used over and over because a synonym or better construction couldn't be found.

But pleonasm can cause clutter, and distract/bore a reader.

Indeed, yes.

"No two tiles were alike." sounds clunky.

I wouldn't say clunky, but it's certainly a bit flat. But the alternative you chose sounded less like meditation -- which is surely the concentration on one specific thing, indeed, one specific element of a thing -- and more the result of someone having imbibed illegal substances.

It has no bearing on the immediate scene, but lays foundation for a later scene. I put it here as part of our introduction to the character, and to show who she is.

In which case, to my mind you need to integrate it better into the story, into her story. Here it's just dumped on the page after the sand and the tiles, and for no apparent reason as it seems to go nowhere -- in fact, it reminds me of the way that you have some of your sentences butting up against each other, with no flow and connection between them.

By way of example, if I were writing this I'd start something like "Agatha knelt to brush away the sand from the tiles." so we're starting with action, then perhaps a line or two about their beauty and the effects of the ever-present destructive sand, then something like "She could never touch the tiles without thinking of David" and then allow her a few memories of him and his gentleness, before a solitary tear falls, washing away the sand, leaving the blue shining like the colour of his eyes, then "Agatha!" so she's pulled out of the reverie and has to go running.

Now obviously, even in summary that's my style, not yours, but you see the difference? I've started the scene with her, and she is doing things and remembering things, and the sand and the rest of it is brought in as it impinges on her so it's made part of her story.

Do you suggest changing this, or deleting it altogether.

The idea is fine, it's just that doggerel -- particularly sung doggerel -- tends to be heavy on rhyme and rhythm, both of which are conspicuous by their absence here. It read to me, in fact, like something that had been translated from another language. A child's version might go something like "Silly old crone, sitting on her throne, ain't got no one, living on her own". See?

I think they would live near the kitchen, under or near the back stair cases.

Um... yes... I'm fully aware of the very basic accomodation for servants throughout history (and for many centuries that would indeed have entailed sleeping on the kitchen floor for some of the poor beggars), but I still wouldn't equate that to "resides" in the way you've written it. Perhaps it's because the whole idea of residence is utterly misplaced. If you'd said something like the servant's domain, that would sound more plausible.

How much thought do you think I should curtail? The character is simple, but simple does not mean stupid, (Andy Griffith for example.) Do I need to make her Einstein? If she acted smart, would everyone not pay attention to her? The stupid bumbling character, (that you would not expect,) a spy?

No idea who Andy Griffith is, so I can't comment on that, but I agree simple doesn't necessarily mean unintelligent, just not complicated. However, a spy, by its very definition, is someone who is doing something duplicitous, so she has to be more than a Forrest Gump. The others may think she's a bumbling nincompoop, but she can't actually be one -- the fact that you haven't revealed her as a spy is irrelevant, since she already is one and therefore you should be showing her character as it is, whether or not the label has yet been affixed to her. So, to me, her thoughts should be a good deal less simplistic than we are seeing here.

Do you think I can find a way to combine modern with the old style of prose? How can you find a happy medium?

Can't help you there. I found my voice early, and it means in my fantasy I write with a kind of classical feel -- I don't go all florid Victorian (which is what your writing reminds me of) -- and I avoid anachronistic words as far as possible since seeing modernisms in a setting from, say, 300 years ago, throws me out of a story very quickly.

Hope these further thoughts help a little.


EDIT: I see Cosmic Geoff has pulled you up on "snuck". I purposely left that one as I know it's an accepted word in America (and, regrettably, gaining ground here...) but I agree I'd prefer to see "sneaked" in something which had an historical setting. No reason why fantasy characters shouldn't think and speak American, but somehow UK English feels more appropriate!

 

[Bowler1]

I can’t top Judges good work, but I felt the urge to edit, big time….
A section of two half’s I’d say.

The first section before the dialogue was way too heavy and in places confusing. The first two sections could go (delete) and improve the section, starting directly with the character cleaning tiles. Jumping in with the character is, I think, far more engaging.
– She sat back, cleaning brush in hand smiling to herself, remembering the one night they’d had together; the risk had been worth it. - A lot shorter, leaving the reader to fill in the blanks, which is always a good idea. There was very little emotion to link the reader with the character. My 2c, feel free to take or leave.


The second half is the dialogue, and it was very un-natural – sadly not engaging because of that.

My best advice, keep it simple and keep it tight and stay with the characters where possible. It’s their world through their eyes that I personally want to see. I think your experimenting and searching around to find your voice, and this is the place for that. I think everyone should aim for something unique and individual to themselves. I operate on the basis that telling a story is writing with the least number of words to express what you want. And my dialogue is never natural (the time I spend editing dialogue, oh my…), it may read as natural but in no way is it. Anyway, chin up and keep going.

 

[Stephen4444]

The use of English-sounding names too seems curious and a mistake, as the impression given is that the setting is exotic.
(1) Why the curious reference to 'six hundred years' and 'could not see how such a religion could last very long'? Six hundred years seems like a success story, and why does she think it can't last?
If your character is a spy, she can be clever, but should never draw attention to herself.

Thank you for your observations. In "my world," the planet is divided into two distinct people, under one government. One with western history, the other with Coptic. There is a third upon the orbiting moons; thus the difference in names, and common language. I love the Canterbury Tales, thus Chaucer.

She makes a reference to the religion dying out, because the government is pushing the state religion. One based on ignorance and compliance.

I think that I will rewrite; making the spy subtle but smart.

Thanks again.

 

[Stephen4444]

The first section before the dialogue was way too heavy and in places confusing. The first two sections could go (delete) and improve the section, starting directly with the character cleaning tiles. Jumping in with the character is, I think, far more engaging.
– She sat back, cleaning brush in hand smiling to herself, remembering the one night they’d had together; the risk had been worth it. - A lot shorter, leaving the reader to fill in the blanks, which is always a good idea. There was very little emotion to link the reader with the character. My 2c, feel free to take or leave.


The second half is the dialogue, and it was very un-natural – sadly not engaging because of that.

My best advice, keep it simple and keep it tight and stay with the characters where possible.

Thank you, for your good advice.

 

[tinkerdan]

Hi Stephen4444,

This is from a reader's point of view:



I like this and appreciate some of the influences you have cited.

You could try any number of other things to interrupt besides the ... In the long run there are bound to be people who will object. If - you try to use ' - ' in the beginning of a novel, there are some who might throw the novel down at that point.

I get the sense that you haven't quite worked this enough before placing it here. Maybe you have not yet read it out loud.



I think it is good and has great potential, and needs to be reworked even if you have to set it aside for a bit to clear your mood.



Judge had excellent advice about smoothing out introduction of David into the narrative.



As to some of the other:

I have the impression that you are trying to set a specific mood. Being as this is fiction and usually fantasy there might be room to mix and blend archaic speech with more modern. The real question is how long you might be able to sustain that. If you set a precedent in dialogue you need to keep it consistent whichever way you chose. The same with the style of prose for your narrative. Most specifically if you are world-building with a style that marks the world you have built. You are building the world so I'm not sure how much a problem it is that some people might have a different notion about what should and should not be in your world as long as it is consistent within itself.



As to the spy:

She must be intelligent. It does not mean she has to play intelligent. If you like that she has an honest or snarky edge to her comment you might try toning it down to where the reader might notice more than the head wife.

As for sappy- I'm gonna be no help with that.

 

[Stephen4444]

The first section before the dialogue was way too heavy and in places confusing. The first two sections could go (delete) and improve the section, starting directly with the character cleaning tiles. Jumping in with the character is, I think, far more engaging.

Thank you, After reading the comments I'm seriously considering giving the first few sentences the ax. At very least, rewriting and a move to a different location.

She sat back, cleaning brush in hand smiling to herself, remembering the one night they’d had together; the risk had been worth it. - A lot shorter, leaving the reader to fill in the blanks, which is always a good idea. There was very little emotion to link the reader with the character. My 2c, feel free to take or leave.

Hmmm... I will think on this. I understand your point. Prose that is short quick and to the point, noun verb. Sometimes that is the way to go about it, hacking through the underbrush in the most sensible fashion; to reach an objective. I do find that sometimes I want to smooth the edges a little; trade the chainsaw for a fine carving instrument.

Anyway, chin up and keep going.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Hi Stephen4444,

She must be intelligent. It does not mean she has to play intelligent. If you like that she has an honest or snarky edge to her comment you might try toning it down to where the reader might notice more than the head wife.
.

Thanks tinkerdan.