Creating cults

[Drakai]

What do you think about cult creating? Is it different than creating a religion? What are the risks that could make the writer look stupid? I'm eagerly waiting any kind of advice and suggestion.

 

[allmywires]

Look up existing cults and go from there?

 

[Brian G Turner]

What we call a "cult" is usually centered around a charismatic leader. Once they die, if the group continues, it then becomes called a "religion".

 

[Drakai]

Yes, I'm already doing that but I thought advice from experienced writers could help.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

What do you think about cult creating? Is it different than creating a religion? What are the risks that could make the writer look stupid? I'm eagerly waiting any kind of advice and suggestion.

Have a look at some of the theories around what makes a charismatic leader. Communication is key, and in this tech age, it's not just face to face and on screen, having a clear vision, one that can be communicated, and one that people will follow. Getting people around you who believe in it completely - think of the disciples - is crucial. The leader provides the vision and the energy, the focal point of attention, the followers provide the means to carry out the vision.

Edit for research on leaders www.businessballs.co.uk are usually pretty easy to follow and will have links.

Consider the followers: what are their aspirations? What is the leader going to deliver that they need.

Some to do research on (because I'm assuming you're after a charismatic leader, rather than one given their position by birthright. If the latter, change your search terms):

Mahatma Gandhi
Hitler
Nelson Mandela

some of the actual cult leaders would be essential reading, I'd have thought.


For some who have shown how to work tech and be a charismatic leader

Steve Jobs (very interesting, as it shows the strength of vision, and, let's be frank, people with bad personal odour, and control freaker-y ways don't fit the idealised model. Plus he's up to date, so there's loads out there on him.)

In terms of theory, it might be worth looking at some of the leadership models and traits. Something like situational leadership (also called the Herschey-Blanchard) shows the skills a leader needs across the range of events. Tannenbaum-Shmidt, shows a continuum which shows how, as an organisation/cult grows, their followers gain more control. This is something a cult leader tries to hold back, as they like to retain control.

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

The easiest way to write a cult is base it off real world cults (re: religions) and go from there. Typically the only thing separating a religion from a cult is that the more widely accepted a cult becomes the more often it's called a religion. Further, if it's your group, that's a religion, if it's the other guy's, that's a cult.

As you can see from the definitions, there's a lot of overlap here. They're more a matter of perspective than many people care to admit.

Cult
Noun
A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

Religion
Noun
The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
Details of belief as taught or discussed.

 

[Drakai]

Hmm. I haven't really thought about using a leader, I was thinking more in terms of a "everyone on their own as long as they follow the doctrines" but having a leader could be better.

Also I'm not sure it could be called a cult because it won't be a new religious movement rather a reincarnation of an old religion. But I really want to call it a cult because it will only consist of a select few and they will be performing lots of rituals an ceremonies.

 

[Parson]

Hmm. I haven't really thought about using a leader, I was thinking more in terms of a "everyone on their own as long as they follow the doctrines" but having a leader could be better.

Also I'm not sure it could be called a cult because it won't be a new religious movement rather a reincarnation of an old religion. But I really want to call it a cult because it will only consist of a select few and they will be performing lots of rituals an ceremonies.

It should be noted that a "cult" is what someone else calls the group so named. Usually that someone else is a representative of the mainstream religious thinking.

In Christian terms a cult is a group which does not subscribe to the "standards" of the faith. For example a group which does not believe that Jesus was fully divine would officially be considered a "cult" no matter how normal their behavior might be. Whereas a group of believers with a charismatic and highly controlling leader but who held to the "standards" of the faith would not be considered a cult in the typical sense, but the group might be considered a "personality cult." So the members might exhibit some off-the-wall behaviors but if there thinking was right; they would be considered a true cult.

This leaves three different paths to follow when creating a cult. It could be a cult where the members have an unacceptable doctrine. It could be a cult where the members blindly follow a highly manipulative and charismatic leader. Or it could be a combination of both. My study would suggest that most of the first type of cults developed out of a cult of the third kind.

 

[Glisterspeck]

It sounds like you may be confusing the ancient meaning of cult with the modern meaning. When we talk about, say, the cult of Isis, or even, the cult of Mary, we're talking about what you might call the outward expression of that god or saints worship or veneration, which may include rituals/sacraments, altars, temples/churches, priests, etc.

If you are talking about reviving an old belief system, say one of the other early sects of christianity, like gnosticism or arianism, you could accurately refer to the collected practitioners as a cult, but you'd have to deal with people's modern connotations for the word. Most modern theologians with an academic interest in christology aren't going to call arianism a cult just because it's not orthodox. The ecumenical minded folks will have a softer name for it, the more orthodox would stick with heretical. The TV evangelist sort, well, a bunch of them actually think catholicism is a cult and the pope is the antichrist, so...

Reading what you've described, Lovecraft's stuff leaps to mind. I wouldn't call the fish folks at Innsmouth a modern day cult; to me, they're an ancient cult of the esoteric wisdom seeking type. You know, the cult of cthulhu. ;-)

If this is more what you're thinking, you might want to check out some occult groups. Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis sounds very much like what you've described, and would fit both the ancient and, to mainstream religions, modern definition of a cult. Lots of ritual magic and esoteric gobbledygook.

 

[JoanDrake]

After studying the Hale Bopp guy I've come to the conclusioin that there is nothing whatsoever that could make a cult or its leader look stupid to its followers. You really could worship a veal cutlet and probably get people to give you all their money, their wives and children and eventually their lives. All you must do is maintain loud and long enough that the holy mutton has revealed itself to you, its chosen messenger.

All you basically need is the pure unmitigated gall to say that you are god and, by you, you'll find some people who will believe you.

 

[Harpo]

You really could worship a veal cutlet and probably get people to give you all their money, their wives and children and eventually their lives. All you must do is maintain loud and long enough that the holy mutton has revealed itself to you, its chosen messenger.

Hallelujah! Where do I sign? I want to believe

 

[Drakai]

This thread has been useful and I thank you for that, but I think I should go into more depth about my idea.

Basically, it's a sun-worshipping cult(or religion as I'm not so sure what to call it). Believers revere sun as the last remnant of the holy fire that swept through the universe in the beginning of all. They believe the holy fire was what ignited the existence, they believe that it burned nothingness and turned it into something.

To this point, it sounds like an ancient cult but it actually takes place in a sci-fi story around the years 2150-2200. Why do people believe in such a thing when there is science? Because these believer can "channel" energy directly from sun and science can't explain it other than saying it has something to do with their DNA. This cult doesn't accept members other than these gifted inviduals.

They also believe that the holy flame will be reborn from it's last remnant and destroy all that is not holy. They work to accomplish this task by trying to find an artifact called the flint which is considered the spark of creation.

That's basically it. I'm still not sure as to whether I should call it a cult or not.

 

[Glisterspeck]

Check out Zoroaster and Zoroastrianism. They have a pretty cool fire motif going and are one of the more ancient, if not most, living religions around today. They tend to be non proselytizing, which limits their growth and makes them seem esoteric and cult-like.

It sounds like you're setting up a dualist, gnostic influenced religion, so I'd look at gnostic beliefs, too. What you've laid out is a fairly common gnostic story in which the spirit, representing all that is good, is represented by light, and the material, representing all that is bad, is represented by, well, everything else.

In fact, I'm using almost the exact same metaphor in my WIP. A star (all that is light) has fallen and its light has entered the bodies of a village who become the star's "cult." They then look to build a perfect container, or wick, to bring the star back into existence, destroying the material world. Text book dualistic gnosticism. ;-)

Anyway, your idea sounds great to me! Calling it a cult would be fine. A sect would be fine too, but either way, it's a religion. As I Brian said up above, the only real difference is who survives the test of time.

 

[Drakai]

Thanks. I now have a clear view of where I want to go from here on. I guess my biggest challenge will be integrating this into a sci-fi cyberpunk setting.

 

[Parson]

Check out Zoroaster and Zoroastrianism. They have a pretty cool fire motif going and are one of the more ancient, if not most, living religions around today. They tend to be non proselytizing, which limits their growth and makes them seem esoteric and cult-like.

It sounds like you're setting up a dualist, gnostic influenced religion, so I'd look at gnostic beliefs, too. What you've laid out is a fairly common gnostic story in which the spirit, representing all that is good, is represented by light, and the material, representing all that is bad, is represented by, well, everything else.

In fact, I'm using almost the exact same metaphor in my WIP. A star (all that is light) has fallen and its light has entered the bodies of a village who become the star's "cult." They then look to build a perfect container, or wick, to bring the star back into existence, destroying the material world. Text book dualistic gnosticism. ;-)

Anyway, your idea sounds great to me! Calling it a cult would be fine. A sect would be fine too, but either way, it's a religion. As I Brian said up above, the only real difference is who survives the test of time.

I'm impressed by your knowledge of ancient and current religions.

 

[Drakai]

@Parson

I'm impressed by everyone's knowledge on everything here! I feel like I can learn something from each and every conversation here even if I don't agree with them. But I guess being knowledgeable about everything is a must when you are writing.