Crackpot(?) theory on Grandmaester Pycelle

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

So I've been thinking...

Pycelle's obviously not dumb, or else he would not have been a Grandmaester. It is also likely that he was involved with the birth of Cersei's children, being a maester and all. But something bothers me:

Why would he counsel Aerys to open the gates? Why did Pycelle never blab to anybody about Robert's alleged children? Why did he brownnose Cersei, but not Robert?

I'm starting to think it is because

Pycelle is a Lannister or from one of the bannermen of Casterly Rock.

It's the only reason I can think of why everything Pycelle did or neglected to do aided the Lannisters.

 

[The Imp]

So I've been thinking...

Pycelle's obviously not dumb, or else he would not have been a Grandmaester. It is also likely that he was involved with the birth of Cersei's children, being a maester and all. But something bothers me:

Why would he counsel Aerys to open the gates? Why did Pycelle never blab to anybody about Robert's alleged children? Why did he brownnose Cersei, but not Robert?

I'm starting to think it is because

Pycelle is a Lannister or from one of the bannermen of Casterly Rock.

It's the only reason I can think of why everything Pycelle did or neglected to do aided the Lannisters.

If I'm not mistaken, the only Maester whose surname we learn is Aemon. We do know that Theomore has Lannister blood, and for that reason maderly doesn't trust him.

I think what you suggest is in no way crackpotty and is certainly possible.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Ooh - I like the thinking here. Do we have any specific interactions between Pycelle and the Lannisters that might suggest a connection being hinted at?

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Well, there's the instances I mentioned.

Varys suggested Aerys II keep the gates of King's Landing shut (which ties in with my idea that Varys is very pro Targaryen) while Pycelle advocated for letting Tywin and his men in.

Pycelle rats out Margaery but loves everything Lannister.

Out of all fake plans concerning Myrcella's destination from the mind of Tyrion, only the one by Pycelle is leaked to another party. Which happens to be a Lannister.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

Pycelle rats out Margaery but loves everything Lannister.

Except for Tyrion.

 

[The Imp]

Except for Tyrion.

Who may not be a Lannister

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

I almost included that in my post, but didn't because I just knew someone else would come along and say it.

So perhaps more fuel for the fire that Tyrion isn't a Lannister.

 

[The Imp]

I almost included that in my post, but didn't because I just knew someone else would come along and say it.

So perhaps more fuel for the fire that Tyrion isn't a Lannister.

Well, maybe it's not fair bring the TV into the book thread, but IMO, Tywin openly questioning whether or not he is Tyrion's father was huge.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

This talk always makes me think of other stuff I read.

One of the theories I read about hinged upon a few understandings.

Remember Auntie Genna?

"Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year."

This lends credence to a little theory that Joanna Lannister was raped by Aegon. Just the product was different. The product of the rape was not Tyrion, but rather the twins Jaime and Cersei. A propensity towards incest (I'll be honest, I don't know if it is genetic like the entire hair thing) and a coin toss away from batshit insanity.

The little fact that Tyrion has one green and one black eye might yet prove a red herring. Whimsy of birth, perhaps?

If this is the case, then Lannister blood (from Joanna Lannister) overrules Targaryen blood (from Aerys II.) I still feel like mapping out the bloodlines so that we can see it more clearly but right now, I am leaning towards Lannister > Targaryen. I will try to find more info.

 

[Rufio]

The impression I got was that he was drawn to Tywin Lannister as a leader, a strong arm, rather than any preexisting loyalty. I definitely don't think he's a Lannister, that wouldn't be forgotten I don't think. Maybe from a subordinate family, but I don't know, I'm not sure how much it would add to the character.

He has to be intelligent to have gotten to the position of Grand Maester, but despite getting that position (not a process we know a lot about but we know how similar processes work) and his many years at court he doesn't seem to be a strong player of the game. Look how easily Tyrion runs circles around him, and Cersei doesn't hold him him in high regard despite his loyalty to her. He seems like the kind of guy who having been drawn to the strength and the wealth of the Lannisters/Tywin and sticks with that instead of scheming a la Varys or Littlefinger.

 

[Tywin]

The impression I got was that he was drawn to Tywin Lannister as a leader, a strong arm, rather than any preexisting loyalty. I definitely don't think he's a Lannister, that wouldn't be forgotten I don't think. Maybe from a subordinate family, but I don't know, I'm not sure how much it would add to the character.

He has to be intelligent to have gotten to the position of Grand Maester, but despite getting that position (not a process we know a lot about but we know how similar processes work) and his many years at court he doesn't seem to be a strong player of the game. Look how easily Tyrion runs circles around him, and Cersei doesn't hold him him in high regard despite his loyalty to her. He seems like the kind of guy who having been drawn to the strength and the wealth of the Lannisters/Tywin and sticks with that instead of scheming a la Varys or Littlefinger.

He held on as Grand Maester for 40 years.

All this about him should be in the past tense since I believe he died just before Kevan Lannister, didn't he?

 

[GonnaNeedaBiggerBoat]

So I've been thinking...

Pycelle's obviously not dumb, or else he would not have been a Grandmaester. It is also likely that he was involved with the birth of Cersei's children, being a maester and all. But something bothers me:

Why would he counsel Aerys to open the gates? Why did Pycelle never blab to anybody about Robert's alleged children? Why did he brownnose Cersei, but not Robert?

I'm starting to think it is because

Pycelle is a Lannister or from one of the bannermen of Casterly Rock.

It's the only reason I can think of why everything Pycelle did or neglected to do aided the Lannisters.

I think it's more a case of knowing where his bread is buttered. I don't think he's a Lannister but more that he likes what helping them provides him.

 

[GonnaNeedaBiggerBoat]

This talk always makes me think of other stuff I read.

One of the theories I read about hinged upon a few understandings.

Remember Auntie Genna?



This lends credence to a little theory that Joanna Lannister was raped by Aegon. Just the product was different. The product of the rape was not Tyrion, but rather the twins Jaime and Cersei. A propensity towards incest (I'll be honest, I don't know if it is genetic like the entire hair thing) and a coin toss away from batshit insanity.

The little fact that Tyrion has one green and one black eye might yet prove a red herring. Whimsy of birth, perhaps?

If this is the case, then Lannister blood (from Joanna Lannister) overrules Targaryen blood (from Aerys II.) I still feel like mapping out the bloodlines so that we can see it more clearly but right now, I am leaning towards Lannister > Targaryen. I will try to find more info.

That would be oh so sweet if Tywin didn't father the pretty, tall ones, but instead fathered the stunted, ugly one. BUT, it only serves for a good story if Tywin knows the truth of it, so don't think he's been cuckolded. AND what would be the point of having all these Targ children mucking about and trying to smash each other--much more interesting as Targ vs Lann deathmatch that it is. PLUS, if any/all of Tywin's children were actually Targs, you KNOW that Varys would know about it and be aiding them. Joff would have been a Targ, Jaime would be heir to the throne over Aegon who may or may not be around?? I think if it were true it would make things too messy and not nearly as interesting.

 

[Eversummer]

Pycelle could be a Tarbeck or a Casterly or a Reyne. Anyways, Tywin had frequented brothels such as Chataya's, thus the secret way leading to the manse--the hypocrite.

 

[Boaz]

Pycelle could be a Tarbeck or a Casterly or a Reyne. Anyways, Tywin had frequented brothels such as Chataya's, thus the secret way leading to the manse--the hypocrite.

First, if Pycelle was a Tarbeckor a Reyne, then he should be working against the Lannisters. This doesn’t make sense to me.

Second, I never questioned from which house Pycelle came. I love the idea that there is a Tarbeck or a Reyne out there, looking for vengeance upon Tywin Lannister!

@Eversummer I would love to hear any other thoughts you have on hidden enemies of Tywin Lannister.

Off the top of my head, I’d say that three of Griff’s companions could be these enemies. Lemore, Rolly, and Haldon. Or Marwyn. What about the elder brother on the quiet Isle? Or, Ser Shadrich. Or Tom of Sevenstreams. Or any of the three eldest sand snakes. I know their mothers are supposed to be already defined, but those could just be lies. They all want serious revenge upon the Lannister’s. In particular, Nymeria is going to sit on the small council. Is her desire for the Lannister‘s downfall only because of her father or could she have a double agenda if her mother’s family has been destroyed by Tywin Lannister?

 

[Boaz]

So who is Pycelle?

I’ve been reading Eddard’s chapters this week. 15 chapters in all. And I read each chapter 5 times. While wondering who he cantrust, Edward muses that he is certain that Pycelle is Cersei’s creature. Tyrion also finds him untrustworthy. And not supportive of Tyrion’s agenda. Yet already knowing Cersei’s chapters in AFFC, we know that Cersei views Pycelle as an obstacle, and not an ally nor a loyal servant.

Pycelle is loyal to the Lannisters because of Tywin. Why?

Repect? Blood? Fear? Gold?

 

[paranoid marvin]

Pycelle will work for whoever he fears most.