City of vs city of

[Brian G Turner]

Slightly odd question.

Do I catch a train to the City of London? Or do I catch a train to the city of London?

Does someone fly to the city of New York, or do they fly to the City of New York?

Simply would like some clatification on capitalisation on this issue, because I find both sometimes applied, but am not sure if there's a rule behind it.

 

[Abernovo]

The City of London is only the central business area - 'the square mile'. It's separate in certain charter ways, has its own police service and byelaws. London is the wider city itself.

Not sure if there are any stations in the City.
Possibly Tube. Don't know.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I think it's City of London because it's a specific area in the city. I don't think New York has a city district, so it would be city. But... If you're not referencing the financial district in London, then I think it's city.

Passes the mud, sure nothing has been made clear.

 

[Glitch]

I think the difference is that 'City of London' is actually the name of a district of London. Whereas you might fly to New York City.

Probably no real help!

 

[alchemist]

The City of London is only the central business area - 'the square mile'. It's separate in certain charter ways, has its own police service and byelaws. London is the wider city itself.

That's what I thought, although I could never understand how this itty bitty area got the name.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Likewise, and you can abbreviate it to the City (but London is the city in which the City is located).

So, small c for general usage.

 

[Abernovo]

I believe it was the core of the city, alc, back when all the outer areas, like Hampstead were still villages or scrubland. Isn't it the only part/district of London without a name? Cheapside (okay, old name), Tottenham, Fulham, etc.

 

[alchemist]

Thanks Aber. I'll try to not imagine it as some sort of Vatican analogue

 

[TheDustyZebra]

All of the "financial district" specifications for London aside, in general it would be the city of New York (or New York City), or the city of Atlanta, or wherever. Same reason you see Doctor Brown, but you go to the doctor, or President Obama speaks to the press, but the president said such-and-such.

AP Stylebook (I realize that's for news, but it's what I have in front of me) says:

city Capitalize city as part of a proper name: Kansas City, New York City, Oklahoma City, Jefferson City.

Lowercase elsewhere: a Texas city; the city government; the city Board of Education; and all city of phrases: the city of Boston.

Capitalize when part of a formal title before a name: City Manager Francis McGrath. Lowercase when not part of the formal title: city Health Commissioner Frank Smith.

 

[Ursa major]

While 'the City of London' is very specific, 'New York' can be: the state; the city (New York City, NYC**); the county*** (a county which happens to be coterminous with the borough of Manhattan).

(The City of London is part corporation - making it, for example, immune to (some) Freedom of Information obligations of local authorities - and part local authority, which removes some obligations to pay tax. If one reads Private Eye, one can easily get the impression that it uses whichever face is most appropriate, in the moment, for hiding its activities and its (huge) financial resources from the public. And the less said about its curious rules about eligibility to vote, the better it likes it. The City of London is also a ceremonial county.)



** - Not to be confused with the now-defunct railroad company, New York Central.

*** - I doubt many people, even in the US, will think of the county if you say 'New York'.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

If you are asking about a general capitalization rule that might apply to any number of cities -- real or otherwise -- it's a style issue, sometimes (as we see here) a matter of local usage, and in some cases possibly a matter of culture and how people think of cities.

New York is a special case, because there is the state, and then there is the city within the state. Usually, people will know which one you mean because of the context, but sometimes there could be confusion. (Don't get me started on Washington!) I've only seen it capitalized when it comes at the end: New York City, New York State. I suppose those who actually live in or around New York City might make some distinction, though, between the city of New York, the City of New York, and New York City. Since I don't believe I am acquainted with anyone from that great metropolis -- although a dear friend is even now living in Upstate New York -- I wouldn't know.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Slightly odd question.

Do I catch a train to the City of London? Or do I catch a train to the city of London?

Does someone fly to the city of New York, or do they fly to the City of New York?

Simply would like some clatification on capitalisation on this issue, because I find both sometimes applied, but am not sure if there's a rule behind it.

Why use the word city at all. You don't say I am going to the city of Glasgow, you normally say, "I am going to Glasgow." Using the word city, in my opinion gives the sentence a false formal feel. New York City and the City of London are places where the word City is part of the name, so yes, I would use a capital "C". But for a city in general, no.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Cheers, think that's answered.

 

[Mary Hoffman]

I agree. You get a train, or plane, to London. The "itty bitty" area known as the City of London relates to its original boundaries.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I just looked at a pamphlet here, that I brought back from my visit to the mission in San Francisco, and it refers to the City of Saint Francis with the capital letter. I think it comes down to what you want to say.

 

[Nerds_feather]

As I understand it, there are two reasons why you would capitalize City: if it's part of a proper name, e.g. the City of London or New York City; or if the municipality has taken action (more accurately, if people have taken action while acting as representatives of the city in question).

Basically: "The city of Melbourne is beautiful in August" versus "the City of Melbourne took legal action against the company that had allegedly dumped toxic waste in residential areas."

 

[Venusian Broon]

I agree. You get a train, or plane, to London. The "itty bitty" area known as the City of London relates to its original boundaries.

Precisely. It is the medieval boundaries (I believe the Roman London boundaries are a bit smaller). Still has the medieval road layout - so loads of strange alleys and side streets and nothing parallel. So easy to get lost or to have a riot in.

The boundaries are marked on the relevant streets in, in a nod to recent threads on such matters, by dragons. (Perhaps because dragons protect piles of gold???)

Generally we drop the 'of London' in everyday parlance.

 

[chrispenycate]

Surely, the City of London was the bit which was within the walls, so you can trace it by the 'gate's:- Aldgate, Aldersgate, Highgate, etc (the et cetera because I can't remember any more – been a long time since I lived in London, and that was in Kensington, which was still a separate village (town?) in Dickens' day)

But a Redwood City, or a Kansas City would get upper case (not capitalised, truly; I don't think either of them is the capital of anything, unlike Mexico City which gets both or Atlantic City, which is presumably the capital of Atlantis)

Since New York is also a state, and technically I could fly to New York and disembark at Buffalo, the city can argue for its upper case; enough cities have the name as part of their title rather than their job description to make it worth looking up individual cases).