Sparrows, Flames & Harpies (spoilers spoilers spoilers)

[Jeroam]

So I'm rereading ADWD and realize that when the bodies start showing up on the streets Daenerys does not handle ruling Meereen very well. She takes hostages from the pyramid families, but won't hurt them in retaliation. (Don't panic, I'm not going to advocate killing children to solve problems.) But the only person who shows up to make sure is the the Green Grace. As I read that encounter I thought to myself that Daenerys is being played, the Green Grace is probably behind it all, and then I realized she really is. Not from the overt crime scene clues, but because AFfC and ADwD are the same story.

AFfC storyarc: Cersei makes a royal mess of Kings Landing and is harassed by the fanatic Sparrows who report to the High Septon, who controls the Great Sept of Baelor. (a large basilica on a different hill on the other side of town)

ADwD storyarc: Daenerys makes a royal mess of Meereen and is harassed by the fanatic Sons of the Harpy, who report to the Green Grace, high priestess at the Temple of the Graces. (a large basilica on a different hill on the other side of town)

The pyramid rulers of Meereen may all hate and want Daenerys ousted, but they've also spent their whole lives competing against each other for control. Only the Green Grace has the ability, resources and opportunity to unite the pyramids and orchestrate the guerrillas.

Cersei fails because she is a mean vindictive **** who is paying for her sins. Daenerys fails because she is kind altruistic and refuses the sin. (slave trade is the sin.)

Finding the Sons of the Harpy on the street and stopping a murder doesn't solve the problem. You want to know who they report to and get those guys. How? spycraft, counterintelligence gathering, if only Varys were here instead of Selmy. But wait a minute, where is Varys? Nobody has a spider. Qyburn takes the post but spends his time as Dr. Frankenstein. Shavepate may "put them to the question," but he's no spider.
Both Queens have incompetent, incomplete counsel.
Both Queens have marriage issues. In both cases, the weddings change nothing or make things worse.
Both Queens take out their frustrations by sexually molesting their handmaidens, though Cersei pitches and Daenerys catches.

The pattern also repeats in Volantis. The Triarchs rule from behind the Black Wall, while at the Temple of the Lord of Light (largest basilica on a different hill on the other side of town) the High priest of R'hollor oversees the Fiery Hand. Difference being that theTriarchs are having an election, in Kings Landing the Septons do the voting.

 

[The Imp]

So I'm rereading ADWD and realize that when the bodies start showing up on the streets Daenerys does not handle ruling Meereen very well. She takes hostages from the pyramid families, but won't hurt them in retaliation. (Don't panic, I'm not going to advocate killing children to solve problems.) But the only person who shows up to make sure is the the Green Grace. As I read that encounter I thought to myself that Daenerys is being played, the Green Grace is probably behind it all, and then I realized she really is. Not from the overt crime scene clues, but because AFfC and ADwD are the same story.

AFfC storyarc: Cersei makes a royal mess of Kings Landing and is harassed by the fanatic Sparrows who report to the High Septon, who controls the Great Sept of Baelor. (a large basilica on a different hill on the other side of town)

ADwD storyarc: Daenerys makes a royal mess of Meereen and is harassed by the fanatic Sons of the Harpy, who report to the Green Grace, high priestess at the Temple of the Graces. (a large basilica on a different hill on the other side of town)

The pyramid rulers of Meereen may all hate and want Daenerys ousted, but they've also spent their whole lives competing against each other for control. Only the Green Grace has the ability, resources and opportunity to unite the pyramids and orchestrate the guerrillas.

Cersei fails because she is a mean vindictive **** who is paying for her sins. Daenerys fails because she is kind altruistic and refuses the sin. (slave trade is the sin.)

Finding the Sons of the Harpy on the street and stopping a murder doesn't solve the problem. You want to know who they report to and get those guys. How? spycraft, counterintelligence gathering, if only Varys were here instead of Selmy. But wait a minute, where is Varys? Nobody has a spider. Qyburn takes the post but spends his time as Dr. Frankenstein. Shavepate may "put them to the question," but he's no spider.
Both Queens have incompetent, incomplete counsel.
Both Queens have marriage issues. In both cases, the weddings change nothing or make things worse.
Both Queens take out their frustrations by sexually molesting their handmaidens, though Cersei pitches and Daenerys catches.

The pattern also repeats in Volantis. The Triarchs rule from behind the Black Wall, while at the Temple of the Lord of Light (largest basilica on a different hill on the other side of town) the High priest of R'hollor oversees the Fiery Hand. Difference being that theTriarchs are having an election, in Kings Landing the Septons do the voting.

You made a great comparison between the two "Queen', but having similar story arcs doesn't necessarily lead to the Green Grace being behind the Harpies. While he may be the VERY obvious candidate, my money is still on Hizdahr.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

You made a great comparison between the two "Queen', but having similar story arcs doesn't necessarily lead to the Green Grace being behind the Harpies. While he may be the VERY obvious candidate, my money is still on Hizdahr.

Agreed. The incident with the poison is too striking too ignore. Hopefully Belwas will kill him.

 

[Jeroam]

Hizdahr is responsible for poisoning the honeyed locusts. Absolutely, but that doesn't mean he's the Harpy either. He's just vain, cruel, and ambitious. The Green Grace introduces them. There's no way she tells Hizdahr anything. He has to be the pawn, he's the piece she moves. She knows that Hizdahr will be followed and tracked. She cannot take the risk of Hizdahr slipping up and saying something stupid or being grabbed and tortured outright. The idea to poison Dany may have been put in his head somewhere along the line, but not directly from any priestess. He was chosen by the Green Grace because she knew he was far more ambitious than clever and eventually would act on his own. If he succeeds, we all go back to normal. If he fails, more chaos and better odds the Yunkai take the city.

 

[Brian G Turner]

That's an interesting pointer, because it means that through juxtaposition GRRM has fingered who the Harpy actually is, and in Hizdahr all we've done is identified the hand.