Treading in sacred pools

[BetaWolf]

Okay, sorry for the highfaluting title. What I want to know is (or at least discuss) is what things used by certain authors is too sacred for others to use in their own published works.

I have rotating space stations, space elevators (my regards to Dr. Clarke), shapeshifters, sympathetic magic, etc. which I guess is all standard space SF/heroic fantasy fare (I'm mixing genres). But where is the line between fair use and poaching what others have written about (whether successful or not)? A lot of magic systems could be rather similar (with your own twist of course)--magic circles, alchemy, etc.

Examples:

1. "Middle Earth"--lifted from Norse mythology, but I could describe a literal middle earth (the surface) between subterranean settlements and cloud cities. Stepping on Tolkien, of course.
2. Powered armor & space marines--Heinlein invented/popularized the idea, but I read somewhere that the corporate owner of Warhammer 40k tried to protect 'space marine' as its intellectual property. Powered armor has seen use in many works, of course.
3. Virtual worlds that might look a lot like The Matrix--which of course had its own influences.

Maybe I'm just being silly or something (worrying about copyright suits on works I haven't even written yet). BUT I thought I'd ask the question.

 

[Brian G Turner]

worrying about copyright suits on works I haven't even written yet

Is probably a little pointless.

When you do write something, you'll make it your own.

 

[Bowler1]

I can’t say for fantasy as I do SciFi, but I don’t plan on reinventing the wheel for my technology. I want readers to stay with me as I zoom off around the universe so there won’t be any new technology ideas from me. I am hoping for new outcomes to the technology use and novel character interaction while using the technology. A new spin on what’s out there, but I’m not too worried if I fail there as well. It’s your characters that will drive a story, and that’s where my focus is.

There's no copyright on characters you invent, they'll be all your own....

 

[The Judge]

I'd avoid using terms and names from other writers, so no Frodo or Captain Carrot or Black Riders or warp drive or Culture with a capital C. But with the actual mechanics, ie the FTL stuff, and the space elevators, it's inevitable you'll be drawing on the work of others, even if you name them slightly differently. I think the trick is to take the idea, but then make it your own by incorporating it fully into your world, so that though a knowledgeable reader might see the influence of Asimov or Clarke, they don't see it as wholesale theft.

 

[BetaWolf]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

@I, Brian: yeah, that's what I thought.

@Bowler1: I was just curious as to how these things are usually approached. Good point.

@The Judge: Okay, that clears a few things up. Thanks.

 

[oddhero]

I'd say that if you can (as commenters have said above) make it your own, then go for it. That said, who right now could come along and do AI ships, and do it as well as Banks? Sometimes a great writer comes along and does things so well that kind of sews it up for a while, at least. As for space marines (lc) I wish someone would do it so well that it'd revive the genre/tech, and let us move on from silly copyright arguments. If that person is you, I salute you!

 

[BetaWolf]

oddhero: thanks for the comments. Yeah, I don't want to compete with the best in the field on what they do best.

on space marines, any ideas? I have human soldiers who use powered armor and other advanced gear. They are not cyborgs (well not really), but are good fighting in low gravity environments.

 

[wulfsbane]

I have next to no experience reading/writing sf, but I figure I'll give this a shot. Forgive me if my suggestion is something that's already been done or anything like that.

Genetically engineered space marines? Mutants? Use of powerful chemical injections to enhance them? (All right, I knowingly stole that one from Starcraft 2.) Something more on the biological side of science. I'm sure these have been done before by somebody but just throwing them out there.

 

[Kissmequick]

I am not a lawyer. K?

on space marines, any ideas? I have human soldiers who use powered armor and other advanced gear. They are not cyborgs (well not really), but are good fighting in low gravity environments.

It's a tricky thing. A 'Matrix-like world' would be fine. Just don't call it the Matrix, or have anyone talk about their being no spoon. Keep the details different. Middle earth may or may not be (Tolkien's estate pursue this sort of thing fairly rigorously), though if it's clear it's not his Middle earth you should be fine -- except for any eyerolling you may induce in your readers. Ideas are not copyrightable, but someone's use of those ideas (in the details) is their intellectual property. For instance I have a Downside as an area in my books. So does another author (Stacia Kane), but nether are trademarked, and they are sufficiently different so we're cool. Space Marine was a generic term well in use before Warhammer 40k, so that issue gets tricky (and why there was such a hullabaloo about it). However much of Tolkien's work is trademarked (rather than copyrighted, same with Warhammer 40K IIRC, so the issues are similar and yes, can include names). Big, multi-work spanning series tend to be trademarked (Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek etc), so you'd need to check that.

If you soldiers don;t go by the term space marine, you're fine (especially if the finer details are different). If they do -- if it was going to be a huge problem, your publisher would ask you to change the name. If you're going for self pub, have a chat with an IP lawyer.

 

[Gumboot]

I think something to bear in mind, aside from legality, is creating your own legacy. Distinct and important elements of a work become associated with that work, and if you use the same elements in your own, no matter how good your work, it will never establish its own legacy, but always be associated with the pre-existing one.

To use the Tolkien example, there's the magic rings. Tolkien is far from the first to use magic rings, which appear in many different cultural mythologies. But when it comes to modern fantasy, magic rings are now forever associated with his work. Anyone else who puts magic rings at the forefront of their work will be seen as copying Tolkien, even if they derived it from other mythologies, and even if their work is totally different from Tolkien's. This association (justified or not) will undermine the work's own distinct legacy.

However where it's a minor detail of your work, you're far less likely to undermine your own legacy by using an element already associated with another work. For example the Valyrian Steel blades of George RR Martin's work are suspiciously similar to the Elven blades of Tolkien's world, but as Valyrian blades are not a particularly significant part of Martin's legacy, it's not as big an issue.

 

[BetaWolf]

Good points. Arguably, Gumboot, Valyrian steel is important for merchandising.

I don't intend to use the term 'space marines'--it's not the focus, either. More like well-outfitted mercenary companies that guard the interplanetary trade routes, with catchy names.

 

[J Riff]

SF is wide open. If you pay the slightest attention to the mainstream junk, Trek, Who, StarWarts... yer undermining the basic principles of the genre.
HG Wells wrote about a time machine, so that's been done. Over. Finished. )
Other than accidentally using the same name for something, I would never give any of it a moment's thought.
You can't come up with a basic idea that hasn't been addressed by a number of good writers. The point is to write good. (well?) and make it entertaining.

 

[BetaWolf]

Thank you, JR.

Well enough dawdling! I have writing to do.