The Shadow Rising (Book 4) - Discussion Thread WITH SPOILERS

[Erin99]

As ever, here's the thread for book four, The Shadow Rising. Even the name sounds ominous!

In this book we see our character list expand and we see some surprising changes to places we love. We also see some fascinating new places, too, and discover more about the Aiel.

And let's not forget the awesome moments to come! I won't even have to mention them - a reader will know one when they read it.

 

[HoopyFrood]

58 pages in and something just happened that made me go "holy ****!" out loud. Unexpected and creepy!!

Have to say that this one really has got off to a great start. The first half of the first chapter especially. I'd forgotten about where Min was headed, but those visions... Poor her and her disguise, though

New saying that I'm going to steal "hairy-chested drivel"

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

This is the last one I read, so I am looking forward to you two and your discussions.

 

[Erin99]

Hello, Lady!!! Nice to see you here - the more the merrier. I have to say, though, I'm shocked that anyone could read this book and not be dying to see what else happens in the series. There's so much to come, so many shockers. I'm eagerly turning the pages of book 9 so I can see the Big Event I've been waiting for since I heard about it in book 1...


Hoopy! YAY! Yes, I remember been stunned at that, trying to work out how that could happen based on what I knew about the world. It just seemed so... out of the blue. Jordan excels at bringing out emotion in readers and leaving puzzles.

You'll have read the opening to everyone's scenes now, then? And yeah, I loved Min's first scene - what she has to put up with, vision-wise! - and now this! Some interesting visions she had there, too...!


And I remember going round the flat saying "Hairy-chested drivel" after reading that, too! Heh! It's just so awesome!

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

I actually never had a problem with the story. If I remember, I always thought it was interesting and I did want to know what happens next. The problem for me was the writing, and the interactions between the characters. I know you and Hoopy have hit on these things in your previous threads, so perhaps they just bothered me more than they did you both. It bothered me enough that I wasn't in any hurry to pick up the next one, despite wanting to know more.

 

[HoopyFrood]

206 pages in and so much is going down! Very fast paced, this one.

Also, just to rub in the "earth but not" idea. Eggy's in a room that I'm fairly sure contains the skeletons of a giraffe and elephant, among others.

(There's a thought, does this particular Age or whatever even have anything bigger than a cat or rabbit (well, and horses)).

Edit: LOL, is the three pointed star inside a circle supposed to be a car hood ornament?? Sounds rather familiar. And "pride and vanity"

 

[Erin99]

Wow, Hoopy, that's more positive than I wished for! I can see why the book is many people's favourite. There is so much going on...


And elephants, you say? Blimey! Yeah, it was a weird moment to read the animal descriptions. I still think the idea of it being Earth somehow lessens the wonder for me. So it's not, okay? Nope! And the circley star thing was just a pretty trinket that rich women wore... I'll even call them Mercedes Women... but... they... are...not.. on... Earth!!!

As for animals bigger than rabbits... well, I believe you saw the Seanchan in book two, and they had weird, biggish creatures.

I actually never had a problem with the story. If I remember, I always thought it was interesting and I did want to know what happens next. The problem for me was the writing, and the interactions between the characters. I know you and Hoopy have hit on these things in your previous threads, so perhaps they just bothered me more than they did you both. It bothered me enough that I wasn't in any hurry to pick up the next one, despite wanting to know more.

Lady, that's interesting. I've grown to love the characters even though they're not how I would have written them. I find their paths intriguing and their interactions great (except when they have little spats, as teenagers do). And I like the different take Jordan spun on the whole "love" thing. Anyway, I must be very different, because I can't NOT know the answers now. And seeing the end of book nine, with its OMG(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ending, I *have* to read on. I can't wait to see the impact it has on everyone...

I thought the ending to book six was phenomenal; book nine blew it away. Such fast-paced interchanging POVs! I tell you, I'm learning so much from Jordan on how to write!


Ooh, and Hoopy - you've some amazing things to come!!! I can't wait!!! (I'm gonna relive them vicariously through you. )

 

[HoopyFrood]

Yeah, that very same chapter (with Amys! Who I already call Amy. She sounds cool) there was a lion and a boarlike thing that scuppered my animal rant. But the er...grohlms? The frog beasts, because we saw them in a portal world first makes me think that they're not real world creatures. Even though they probably are. But it's another one of my stubborn mind things

But yeah, seems to have been three-four days of just stuff constantly going down. Rand's bedroom must be ruined.

Though now I think people are starting to go their ways again, so it might slow down a bit. Maybe

 

[Erin99]

Hmm... might slow down, eh? It might. Or it might not. Or it might just be starting to get interesting...

I love Amys, too! I call her A-miss, so I think I'm right...? Personally, I love Aviendha. She's so feisty! I love all the Maidens. The women are independent and wild, and their society is so different!

I'd forgotten about the grolhms (I cant work out how to spell it either!). But no, I meant that the Seanchan were mentioned as holding animals on leashes (Leishas? ), catlike things, AFAIR.



OOOOHHHHH! THUNDER OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!! *goes running madly round the room screeching*

I LOOOOVE THUNDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HoopyFrood]

Oh right, I thought the catlike things was just someone else's description of the grohlms...grolhms...er, those things.

We had some amazing thunder the other day. Only a handful of rumbled, though. It seems that's all we get down here *mope*

 

[Erin99]

We're set for thunder and lightning and flash floods all afternoon and night, but... um... I may have been premature in my excitement. We had one rumble, lots of rain, and then a big load of nothing!

You could be right about the grolm things. I can't remember what I saw them as, so when I read about catlike things on leashes, I immediately thought they were different things. Anyway, the idea of big cats on leashes is always a bonus in stories, for me! Any cats are!

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

Lady, that's interesting. I've grown to love the characters even though they're not how I would have written them. I find their paths intriguing and their interactions great (except when they have little spats, as teenagers do). And I like the different take Jordan spun on the whole "love" thing. Anyway, I must be very different, because I can't NOT know the answers now. And seeing the end of book nine, with its OMG(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ending, I *have* to read on. I can't wait to see the impact it has on everyone...

I thought the ending to book six was phenomenal; book nine blew it away. Such fast-paced interchanging POVs! I tell you, I'm learning so much from Jordan on how to write!

Remember, it has been over 3 years since I read them, so I'm going off memory here (and mine isn't all that great unfortunately). I don't recall not liking the characters, I think I liked most of them. It was the interactions between them. I always felt like they were acting like they were in middle school. (I don't remember what age they were supposed to be in this book?) And the braid pulling really became noticeable in this one too.

Like I said before, this obviously bothered me more than it did you. But I really am glad you have found something you love so much. And I am still considering picking the next one up. If Hoopy does too, maybe I'll see if I can get a copy to read at the same time (albeit at a much slower pace).

 

[HoopyFrood]

Arrrrggghhh, people need to stop putting all this pressure on me!

I feel like the Chrons Jordan guinea pig.

 

[Erin99]

I'm right with you there on the bad memory. Mine's horrendous! Sometimes I get worried by how bad my memory is... but then I forget about it.

Aaaaanyway, with the braid-pulling that people here keep mentioning, I don't have a problem with it. TBH it's just one character, and she - and everyone around her who laughs - knows it's her flaw. It's even made a joke of once or twice. Every time Ny gets angry or frustrated, she tugs her braids instead of huffs or whatever else people do - it's what some women on her world do, cos they have braids in some places, and I suppose it's handy to tug, especially if she's grown up doing it subconsciously. I know I huff like a steam train when I'm miffed.

Plus, I've always had the feeling that Jordan did it intentionally and that the character, by the end of the series, will not do it because it shows how far she's come. I'm already seeing a huge change in her attitude in these later books, as with others (ooooh yeah, deffo some BIG changes!!!). And remember, Ny, in those early books, has a block on her connection to the Power. She can't channel unless she's angry - which she is, often, and has likely learned to be so because it gives her the ability to channel. And she's fiercely proud and protective of her fellow E(d)mond-Fielders, which doesn't help since they're put in peril most of the time...!

But yeah, if you didn't enjoy the book, there's little point going back to them. I never thought I would say that, but I've realised it from seeing people's reactions here. If you don't enjoy the earliest books enough to read on, no matter the idea that the characters grow up in the series as all characters do or that the plot gets SO epic and shocking, then the series is not to your taste. For all I know, Hoopy might change her mind about the series at the end of this book, too.


Aaaand... I feel bad that poor Hoopy's ended up having to give reports at the end of each book! Sorry! Hopefully this time she won't have to, since HareBrain and the others bowed out last time.


I have to say, however, it's been fun seeing your guesses, Hoopy! Oh, and I forgot to say: SPOT-ON ABOUT LANFEAR!!! Heh. Well done. You're right about other guesses, too, but I won't say which until I know you've read them. Oh, and that moment when Rand wielded the tornado-lightning thing? Awesome.

 

[HareBrain]

Aaaand... I feel bad that poor Hoopy's ended up having to give reports at the end of each book! Sorry! Hopefully this time she won't have to, since HareBrain and the others bowed out last time.

But we (or at least I) are still interested in reading them. I'm particularly looking forward to her summary of the whole series. I mean, REALLY looking forward to it, as in, it's the thing that most gives my life meaning. But no pressure.

 

[Erin99]

HB, nooooo! Poor Hoopy, she's probably crying in a heap now, cursing me and the day she ever picked up that book on her shelf...

 

[HoopyFrood]

Aaaand... I feel bad that poor Hoopy's ended up having to give reports at the end of each book! Sorry! Hopefully this time she won't have to, since HareBrain and the others bowed out last time.

It's all right. *takes on noble look* I see now that it's my...destiny.

I have to say, however, it's been fun seeing your guesses, Hoopy! Oh, and I forgot to say: SPOT-ON ABOUT LANFEAR!!! Heh. Well done. You're right about other guesses, too, but I won't say which until I know you've read them. Oh, and that moment when Rand wielded the tornado-lightning thing? Awesome.

Welll technically it was confirmed at the end of the second book, when she turns up to Min and unconscious Rand (though it's not specified as Selene, you can tell) and she's all "what up, I'm Lanfear". I do quite like that she just goes around admitting it.

But we (or at least I) are still interested in reading them. I'm particularly looking forward to her summary of the whole series. I mean, REALLY looking forward to it, as in, it's the thing that most gives my life meaning. But no pressure.

I couldn't take away your life's meaning! That would in just terrible of me. No, I can't do it. You'll have to read them yourself.

Or, in other words...whatevs!

 

[Erin99]

Aah, your destiny, eh? The Wheel of Time weaves as it wills. *nods sagely*

You've been caught, Hoopster. If we truly are in an Age of the Wheel (and Age long past, an Age yet to begin...), perhaps you've always been the one to fulfill this role, bringing Jordan Enlightenment to the Chrons.

You've noticed that your posts hold merit. You are Ta'veren even if you resist. People act upon your words...



..whereas I'm just the loopy one who can't stop singing Jordan's praises all over this place while studiously fighting to uphold his virtues against a tide of negativity. People ignore my opinions, cos I am biased (and proud!).


I have to say, however, you've done a marvelous job so far. If I were being honest in my summing up of each book like you did, there *would* be a fair amount of negativity - more than people realise, actually, though I hate to say it because I'm trying to fight all this Jordan hate - but, however odd this sounds, that would be unfair. The review *would* come across as biased against the book - yet I would still urge others to read on. I love the series.

The books are far more than the sum of what doesn't work. There's so much that does, if you give them a chance and ignore all the bad things you've heard or thought about. There's wonder and laughs and awe and shocks and sadness and hair-pulling to be had. (Note: yes, you can substitute "hair-pulling" for "braid-pulling" if you feel so inclined.)

I've loved my Jordan Journey. I might not have loved every single minute, but that's the price you pay - and are willing to pay - when you fall in love with something. Long live Jordan!






Uh... in memory, anyway.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Aah, your destiny, eh? The Wheel of Time weaves as it wills. *nods sagely*

You've been caught, Hoopster. If we truly are in an Age of the Wheel (and Age long past, an Age yet to begin...), perhaps you've always been the one to fulfill this role, bringing Jordan Enlightenment to the Chrons.

You've noticed that your posts hold merit. You are Ta'veren even if you resist. People act upon your words...

Noooo! I resist! I shall fight it and be all angsty and refuse to dance on such puppet strings

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

Arrrrggghhh, people need to stop putting all this pressure on me!

I feel like the Chrons Jordan guinea pig.

Lol. There really is no pressure from me Hoopy. I just thought it would be fun for two people to be reading it at the same time (for Leisha anyway ) But I have no idea when I will be able to get my hands on a copy anyway, so you're off the hook....for now.