Where did all this THIRD-person present tense come from?

[HareBrain]

I was going to post this in the first-person thread, but actually it's a different topic. The previous Book at Bedtime on BBC Radio 4, John le Carre's A Delicate Truth, has large sections in 3rd-present, and this week's book in the same slot, Sarah Dunant's Blood and Beauty, is written wholly in it. Either an editor at Radio 4 is obsessed with the mode, or it's on the up.

I've never really thought of writing in 3rd-present before, perhaps because no one else did either, but now I've been forced to think about it, I'm not sure why it's never occurred to me. I have some conceptual difficulties with 1st-present, in that I sometimes wonder how or why the narrator is communicating a story that's supposed to be happening to them right at that moment, but this doesn't apply to 3rd-present. And having rewritten a few passages on mine in 3rd-present as an exercise, I can see advantages. The awkward pluperfect tense is replaced with simple past. Formal and elegant constructions don't sit so well in it, but fragments, and observations direct from the character's POV, seem to feel more natural.

After initial reservations, I was surprised how little it bothered me to hear those books read out in present tense. Have we all been avoiding it purely out of tradition, or are there real disadvantages I've missed?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I think Lauren Buerkes The Shining Girls was third/present. I hated it. I don't think it was the tense -- I am a weird reader who rarely even notices tense -- but it did seem a little odd from time to time and, I think, added to the sense that I had of lack of suspense within a thriller book.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Umm my urban fantasy happened purely because after writing the first-person present tense it came naturally. Then I added the part set in the 1940s so it made sense to make that bit past tense but put the 1980s in present tense. It's working well so far.

Like Springs I don't notice tense but now I'm thinking of finding out the agents of these books lol

 

[alchemist]

The awkward pluperfect tense is replaced with simple past.

I don't get this. See this sample of a made-up chapter opening in 3rd present, with a short diversion to explain how we'd arrived here...

Harebrain pauses, composes himself, and knocks on the door.

(all fine and dandy so far, but how did he get here? Those details need to be gotten rid of quickly as they distract from the door)

He drove across town, as fast as he possibly could.

(now that doesn't work at all. It has to be done in pluperfect, such as...)

He had driven across town, as fast as he possibly could.

Or am I missing something?




On the main topic in question, I hope your sample size is too small and this abomination will not come to pass.

 

[HareBrain]

Or am I missing something?

No, it's clearly more complex than I thought, but I can't figure out what the rules are. In the following case, it works:

Past:

as the dark highway passed he told Orc and Cass how he’d heard about the college

Present:

as the dark highway passes he tells Orc and Cass how he heard about the college

Perhaps all the head-scratching is a good enough reason to avoid it.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Or am I missing something?

What you are missing is the present perfect tense.

Harebrain pauses, composes himself, and knocks on the door. He has driven across town, as fast as he possibly could.

Or, if you still think that is awkward (and sometimes it will be), you can simply use the past tense plus a few words to sort of smooth out the tense change between the two sentences.

Harebrain pauses, composes himself, and knocks on the door. To get here, he drove across town, as fast as he possibly could.

 

[HareBrain]

He has driven -- of course!

I assume we'd still need the pluperfect in the following phrasing, though?

Harebrain pauses, composes himself, and knocks on the door. Before he got here, he had driven across town, as fast as he possibly could.

 

[alchemist]

Thanks Teresa. It all looks so simple when you put it like that.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think so. That one is tricky, because we don't know how long ago he arrived ... should getting there be in the past tense, or is he arriving now? I suppose the pause for composure provides a sufficient interval of time between getting there and the knock, so that the next sentence can legitimately refer to the former in the past tense.

But, you know, when any sentence is questionable (in any tense or viewpoint) there is generally an easy solution, involving a simple rewrite, once we can get the original sentence out of our mind (which, for me, can be the hard part).

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm reading a John Le Carre at the moment, too - Single & Single.

I do like the way he uses third person, present tense, especially to build character.

I don't know whether it's just because it's a new idea, which makes it exciting and interesting - but I felt compelled to do a test rewrite of a sample of my WIP.

I really liked the original version in third person, past tense. I thought I was developing a tight style that finally worked.

However, changing it to third person in present tense seems to give it an extra sense of life.

Past now feels authoritative, but cold with it, and sometimes too objective.

Present makes the narrative voice more noticeable, but not only does it feel more engaging and emotive, I find myself adding tiny little flourishes that make the character POV feel more alive, and adds to the mood of the scene.

I'm currently 25% through a major rewrite into third person, past tense - but am now wondering whether to continue as I am, knowing there's a chance of having to rewrite again in present tense.

I guess I'll have to continue as I am, especially as moving to present doesn't look like a lot of work.

But it has got me thinking an awful lot about it now. If I can write better in present tense ...

Hmm.

 

[Mouse]

Just realised this is a bump of an old thread but... meh. I'm here now.

I do not like present tense. I can just about stomach first present, if it's done well. I detest third present. It's so patronising! It's like somebody's sat me down and is telling me a story as if I'm a little child. Gah! HATE it.

 

[Phyrebrat]

It's creepy. It makes me think;

It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again



pH

 

[Brian G Turner]

Perhaps it's a sign that my third person, past tense, still needs work. But I do like the way the past tense version is coming out.

 

[Fitzchiv]

Slightly off topic I know, but HairBrain mentions a first-person thread - could someone point me towards it?!

 

[RCynic]

I have trouble understanding this discussion without examples. Are we talking about something like this?

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173004

 

[Brian G Turner]

Slightly off topic I know, but HairBrain mentions a first-person thread - could someone point me towards it?!

Here you go:
http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/540693-where-did-all-this-first-person-present-tense.html

I have trouble understanding this discussion without examples.

First person past: I saw
First person present: I see
Third person past: He/She saw
Third person present: He/She sees

 

[Erin99]

I find third-person past the most beautiful, as well as a well-done first. I'm............ not sure I would like to read a third-person present. If it was done well, sure - I'll read anything done well - but the idea of it makes my stomach churn**. There's something comforting about slipping into past in a book.

But that's just my opinion, and I certainly couldn't see how my novel would be better off if I switched. I'd be cringing through it. But that's cos I'm such a stickler, I know.



**For an entire novel, anyway.

 

[farntfar]

I'm reading a John Le Carre at the moment, too - Single & Single.

I do like the way he uses third person, present tense, especially to build character.

Hmm.

Le Carre played about with this in some of his other books as well.
A Perfect Spy springs to mind.
(Also parts of the Smiley/Karla books)

He'll have several timelines running and interleaving all over the place, and the present tense tends to correspond to the beginning and end of the book, and much of the rest is sort of flashbacks from then (and then flashbacks from the flashback periods of course, just to make it worse.)

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

I guess I'm a curmudgeon on this one; I can't stand present tense. At all. It maybe tradition, it could be that I'm just used to past tense, but I flat can't stand present tense prose. Prose uses past; screenplays use present. When I see present tense prose it makes me think the writer is trying to not so subtly say, "I can write screenplays too!" I think it's a gimmick at best.

 

[tinkerdan]

I did a piece with first person present tense once that I discovered was mostly difficult because there were some things the reader needed to know that the character didn't. The solution was to write in occasional chapters with other characters and I did not want to do all first person so I did third person and then figuring it would be enough of a jolt to switch from first to third so I did it all in present tense which worked out quite well for an amature.