Where's the Yellow Brick Road when you need it?

[CrumpleHornedSnorkak]

I'm in desperate need of a brain. Where can I find one?

I just keep having so many problems with my WIP. I think I know what I am doing, then my brain decides to go on a holiday.

I tend to half plan, and half wing it. Then I don't know how to get from what I had planned for chapter, or section, or whatever, from my winging. I can't seem to think of anything decent to call anything. It all sounds stupid!

I never seem to finish anything. Is that because I am rubbish, or because the idea isn't right? Should I scrap it, and move on to something else? Should I just not bother trying to write at all? Is Fantasy too difficult? Am I too stupid?

(I joined this site because I wanted to talk about books, not because I wanted to talk about writing. I hadn't actually looked at my WIP for months, then coming here inspired me to get back into it. And now I'm all of a dither!)

How do other writers get going? Is this common? Does anyone just write random chapters (or whatever) and then piece them together later on? Or is that just a mental way to do things? I'm just so frustrated with my stupid, dyslexic, brain!

(Hope it was ok to post this here?)

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Oh, dear, my sympathies... yes, some do write random chapters, some plan, some wing it. The only thing I can advise, maybe, is to get to the end of something, and if a novel is too big a thing to bite off, maybe start with some shorts based in your world - they might even become a chapter of something bigger? But I think the sense of achievement at finishing something -- anything -- is a big motivator. Good luck!

 

[alchemist]

Everybody works differently and it's easy to panic a little when you see the enormity of what lies ahead. For instance, I'm 17k into my current WIP and only have a vague idea of what has to happen. But I found before that it will fall into place. I may have to change tack and work it out with a pen and paper, because that sometimes works better than doing the planning on a keyboard.

Maybe write some shorts so you develop the confidence that you can finish stories?

 

[CrumpleHornedSnorkak]

Thank you springs, that's a really good idea. I, for some reason, have always found short stories even harder! But, I will definitely give it a go.

Alchemist, I find it much easier to plan with pen and paper. I have numours note pads and pieces of paper everywhere with random ideas, plot lines etc. Maybe it would be a good idea to go through all of that, and organise it some way. Could possibly help? Thanks for the advice.

 

[The Judge]

Last question first, posting here is fine -- this is what GWD is for, asking questions about writing generally (and having a moan...)

Anyway, I'm also a half-planner, half-winger -- which clearly makes me a winner! (Or a plawin.) I've bored my partner to near coma-tosity since every new chapter of my fantasy has been heralded with "I don't know what's happening! I don't know where it's going! I don't know how to get there!" What has helped me is writing down options. For instance, I had to get character S into a house where character Z was waiting for him, and I needed character L to bring it about, so I made a list of the different ways Z could contrive it and against each one I made a note of advantages and disadvantages. That usually results in one idea being obviously more feasible than the others, so then I work on it and try and batten down why S would respond by going there (answer -- he's an arrogant pig, he's had enough of his wife, and he wholly underestimates Z).

If you're never finishing things, it could simply be you haven't yet hit the one story you need to tell. I have a box-load of beginnings and snippets and ideas, none of which grabbed me enough to bring them to a conclusion. Then I had the idea for my SF and I needed to get it down and finished. Have a look at the old ideas and see how much you like/love them. If they're not inspiring you, start on another story.

Don't give up writing just because it's hard. Everything that's worthwhile in life needs to be worked at. Stick with it.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Sometimes it's worth just splurging it out, accepting that it's just a first draft.

The rewrite drafts are for cleaning and tidying, getting everything you need into frame, and pushing pieces into position.

Editing comes after to polish and tighten. But it's far too easy to get stuck in trying to edit before the first draft is complete - leave it, you'll end up editing whatever you edit now anyway.

2c.

 

[Kissmequick]

It all sounds stupid!

This is a perfectly natural phenomenon while you are drafting. It is why this graphic makes a lot of writers nod and say 'Ayup, that's how it goes'. Often known as the Mid Novel Slump.

There is only one way through it. Keep writing. Get to the end. Leave it to sit for a while. Come back to it. It probably won't seem as bad and you'll probably be able to spot areas to improve/think up how to fix it.

 

[Colbey Frost]

Hey,

I think your problem is planning and winging it at the same time, because one will always get in the way of the other. I had the same problem as you, and had so many ideas, sometimes just the urge to write, but if you only half plan then it tends to get in the way.

What I did, and I understand if it doesn't make sense, is to plan fully. Map out your plot, characters, chapters, everything... At first this looks like you're going against your creative side, but actually, the whole thing is being creative anyway, and you'll find, or at least I do, that the "winging it" part of your brain kicks in anyway when you're planning, but rather than running into dead ends with thousands of words behind you, you're actually only writing bullet points or paragraphs when planning and they can easily be changed whilst at the same time still feeding your wild side.

And, even if you plan it down to the smallest of details, things will always end up changing, better ideas will always come, but you've now got a clear idea of what you're doing and where you're going which will also calm your self doubt and give you something to work towards.

Good luck.

 

[Bowler1]

I've bored my partner to near coma-tosity

Not just me then!

When writing it's good to have a plan, like scaffold for a building - but you have to allow freedom of expression for creativity. So from what I can see you should be doing just fine, with one more writing tool, already mentioned. Edit, when in doubt edit, when stuck edit, start with some editing, finish with some editing and then edit a few more times just to be sure. You get the idea, you can never edit too much.

As to losing the plot and wondering why you write, we all do it, yet we still write. Collective madness, but at least we can vent on here. So you sound normal to me, on a site that wears it's madness as a badge of pride.

 

[Ursa major]

Sorry if I've mentioned this more than once....


A way I've found to get going when stalled is to get your characters talking to each other. It doesn't matter if the conversations don't get into the final version of your book or story, because you get to learn a lot of things writing this sort of dialogue:

• Your characters' views (particularly useful when they're not the Point of View characters)
• Your characters' knowledge and (sometimes more important) their areas of ignorance. It's all very well you, the writer, knowing things (although, as pointed out here, that knowledge is often far from perfect), but the plot will look stupid if the right people don't know what they should, and the (other) right people are ignorant of what's going on)
• Your knowledge of what is going on and, in particular, the specific nature of what you don't yet know. It's far easier to find a solution when you know the exact problem, and this technique can help you define the problem(s).

And on top of all of that: if you, like me, enjoy writing dialogue, this gives you an excuse to do it.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Seconded on dialogue...

 

[wulfsbane]

I've had much of the same problems as you said. I have, to date, not finished any story of substantial length except for a short story I wrote for school. (And I only finished that one because of the deadline and the fact it counted for a grade!) I have found that usually the reason I didn't end up finishing my stories is because I didn't plan enough. So for my latest attempt, I've written an rough plot outline. So I think it will help you if you know the general plot of your story. Not all the little details, but the very basic plot. Of course, that doesn't mean you're limited in your creativity. As you write, you can change whatever you need to if you feel it works. It's just nice to have something to hold onto so you don't end up writing yourself into a corner. You write and then you realize that what you wrote isn't going to work with what you want to do and then it seems like a lot of work to fix it so you slow down and eventually stop. (Or that's the process for me at least.)

Whether or not you should stop writing your WIP is up to you. If you're really just not looking forward to writing any bit of it, then maybe you should scrap it, or at least leave it for a while and come back to it later. But it doesn't have to feel wasted. Everything you learned on that WIP can make your next one that much better.

I've never tried writing random chapters and piecing them together later. I don't think it's a very good way to make a story, but it could definitely be a good way to explore your characters and setting.

Ultimately, though, the techniques and style you use should be what you find works best for you. Some writers do fine winging much of it, and others use lots and lots of planning. If you haven't tried planning things out fully, (however basic your plan is) then I highly recommend it. If nothing else, trying it will allow you to find out whether it works for you or not.

Good luck and keep writing!

 

[Tecdavid]

One idea you might want to consider is planning certain plot points, then letting the story carry itself between them. Trying to plan everything can be stressful, heavy-going, and risks making the story seem forced. Planning nothing, meanwhile, can leave you feeling confused, and your story seeming directionless or complicated. By planning "certain points" I mean:

1) Thinking about the initial theme/idea that encouraged you to write the story, 2) Starting out with Characters A, B, and C attending some fantastical fair, in which snippets of this theme/idea are conveyed, 3) Evil group come along and ruin everything! 4) A, B, and C, now homeless, search for the fabled Location A, unaware that D is watching them. Etc.

Doing this helps you establish a path for your story to follow, but you can join these points together any way you wish. How do A, B, and C decide to try and reach Location A? You can deal with that problem when you get to it. Maybe the way you had them interact at the fair will convince them to leave each other behind, or maybe it will encourage them to stick together. Maybe they met someone at the fair who spoke about location A and how to get there in a drunken stupor, and now B and C are arguing over whether to have taken his ramblings seriously.


It's just a suggestion. Everyone feels comfortable with different styles, and that's just one of many.

 

[CrumpleHornedSnorkak]

Last question first, posting here is fine -- this is what GWD is for, asking questions about writing generally (and having a moan...)

I suspected it would be, but some forums are mental about threads etc. they don't seem to like people making threads for themselves!

That's very good advice, and this afternoon I have dug out all of my old ideas and notes etc. I'm actually quite pleasantly surprised by them!

Sometimes it's worth just splurging it out, accepting that it's just a first draft.

Yes, that was my initial plan, just write and go over it later. It hasn't quite worked out that way, as I just keep getting stuck.

This is a perfectly natural phenomenon while you are drafting. It is why this graphic makes a lot of writers nod and say 'Ayup, that's how it goes'. Often known as the Mid Novel Slump.

That is exactly how I feel! Ha!

Hey,

I think your problem is planning and winging it at the same time, because one will always get in the way of the other. I had the same problem as you, and had so many ideas, sometimes just the urge to write, but if you only half plan then it tends to get in the way.

I think I know what you mean. I stop writing when I get stuck, and then think 'Right, I'd better just plan it all first, because I am getting nowhere', but then I get bored planning cuz I just want to write!

What I did, and I understand if it doesn't make sense, is to plan fully. Map out your plot, characters, chapters, everything...

How do you do your planning? I think that is another thing I struggle with. I don't have a specific way to do it. Sometimes I write paragraphs, I've tried tables, bullet points, 'mind-maps'... What works best for you?
[/QUOTE]

I've had much of the same problems as you said. I have, to date, not finished any story of substantial length except for a short story I wrote for school. (And I only finished that one because of the deadline and the fact it counted for a grade!)

That is exactly me as well! I've finished one short story, because I needed it for college. And I wrote it in one night, (the before it was due in) and I got an A* so I guess I can't be all that bad at writing.

I have found that usually the reason I didn't end up finishing my stories is because I didn't plan enough. So for my latest attempt, I've written an rough plot outline.

What type of planning works best for you? I am constantly struggling with ways to do it in a logical fashion...

One idea you might want to consider is planning certain plot points, then letting the story carry itself between them.

Yes, that is a very good idea.



Thank you, so much, to everyone that has commented. You're all amazing! I feel a lot better about my stupid brain now. So glad I joined this forum. Much better than others I have been on... Ha!

 

[Abernovo]

You've already had some good advice, so I'll add my perhaps dubious two penn'orth.

As above, be wary of editing before finishing. The danger is if you edit every time the story alters, you might never get to the final destination. That's not to say you can't leave a note, along the lines of 'does this still work?', or 's/he should be more [insert characteristic here] to keep the character consistent with Chapter X'.

Your story doesn't all have to connect either, at least, not to begin with. You asked about random chapters. Is there anything stopping you from writing a note (as above) saying that you need to place a bridge in between two of your chapters. Then you can go back. Another option would be to have another point of view, the two PoVs* coming together to connect the story later.

I've known the basic end point for my WiP for a long time. However, it's only now that I've got to know my characters as fleshed-out people, not names on paper, that I've been able to create a detailed story arc. Would something like that help you? If you know where you want to go (ish), then perhaps let the characters live and grow on the page - splurge it out, as Brian says. Better structure and editing can come later, after the first draft.

Whatever your choice, good luck. Keep working at it and I'm sure you'll find the style that best works for you.

*Personally, I'd be careful with the number of PoVs. Two, three might work, but too many might start to ramble.

 

[CrumpleHornedSnorkak]

Ah, thanks for taking the time to reply to me.

I think building the characters up to be more than a name is something I struggle with, actually. So, are you saying to just carry on, and let my characters develop that way? I never know if I should write, for example, a bio for each one. Or if I should 'let' them tell me their reactions to things as I go along. I'm pretty sure I know where I want the story to go. It's just the beginning and the middle! But, I am already feeling so much happier now I've had advice from you lovely people!

And, I am always going back to what I have previously written and making notes. I love the feature on Word where you can make a little box with an arrow... I've not had Office 2010 for long, and I'm easily pleased! ha!

 

[Abernovo]

If you want to write a little bio, then do. I think they can be a very good idea. Personally, I look at them like CVs. Someone hands them in to a prospective employer, but it's not until they're working in the environment that their character comes out.

For example, one of the questions I've seen is: what is a character's breaking point? If they've made good, coming from a notorious crime family, perhaps they've swore never to break the law or end up in prison. What happens if they're arrested and end up (even unjustly) in prison? How would they react? How would they deal with the looks from people?

Maybe they have a high moral code. What if they had to to break their word to someone, or worse, were put in the situation of having to break their word to one of two people and forced to choose who to betray?

The breaking point could be in the CV, but would you know all the implications for them until you've written the scene? This is purely my opinion, but both are part of fleshing out the character.

Please don't worry too much about the beginning, though, at this stage. The start point often changes in later drafts, from what I've seen discussed here and elsewhere. Most of all, I don't think there are set 'rules' of how you have to do things. Experiment to find the best fit, and...keep writing!

 

[The Judge]

Just to echo Aber -- there are no rules when it comes to the technique of writing. eg most people will tell you don't bother editing a first draft, just splurge it out. Which is good advice, but... I can't do that and I have to edit as I go. Yes, it might be a waste of time, in that stuff I've edited may have to be re-edited, but it works for me. When I've tried to splurge and leave it, the writing hasn't been anything like as good, but more importantly I've not enjoyed the process. As a result, I'm nowhere near as quick as other writers, but I like to think my work is a tad more polished than many. I think, also, by working that bit more slowly, I'm less likely to make a wrong turn and have to dump whole scenes and chapters which others might have to do, and which to me is just as much a waste of time as my editing the edits.

So, as Aber says, experiment and find out what works for you.

 

[CrumpleHornedSnorkak]

I agree, that going back over what you've done before you've finished would be beneficial. Not, that I've ever finished anything! But, I find that if I'm having a lull in inspiration, going back over what I have done can help, or at least it keeps me in the mind-set of writing. I wish I could just hash it all out, but it doesn't always work that way.

Anyway, thank you to all who has given advice. It really has been so useful, you're all stars!

 

[wulfsbane]

In (belated) answer to your question earlier about what kind of planning works best for me:

I find planning beginnings easy. It's just the thinking ahead that's hard. So I mean, if you can think of an ending plot point, or climax. Or something near the end. Then you can just work toward that and fill in the other plot points that will make that happen.