antagonists and loyalty

[shamguy4]

I had a topic a few months ago that spiraled into how to make an antagonist more realistic, not just an evil doer for no reason.

So now I am working on my antagonists, and how he comes to be what he is now and I am having problems.

My antagonist is presumed dead, and yet he somehow secretly has amassed a nice sized army. This sounds all nice but I ask myself where did this army come from and how has it remained hidden?
Can people be easily tricked into joining a belief, unless there is something in it for them?

How has he hidden away all these years and who would join him in his cause, especially if he has been in hiding, its not like he has been advocating out loud for himself...

I can go the stupid route of raising an army of the dead...lol...I hate those stories...

Or I can have a sect of people that believe in his ways and are only too happy to follow him.

I was wondering what others have done with their antagonists to gain them loyalty, especially if they have been thrown out of office and have run away into hiding for 15 years.

 

[Jonathan C]

Try this.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IControlMyMinionsThrough

• Authority: The legitimate authority figure within an organization, such as an army, and his minions are under him on the organizational chart. The minions may or may not be aware of his true objectives, but follow him because it's their job to do so. The General Ripper, Hanging Judge, and leaders of The Remnant are examples of this. An Engineered Public Confession that proves he has betrayed the interest of the organization can bring him down, as can going through his superiors (if he has any), otherwise replacing him, or an Enemy Civil War with other branches of service.
  • Popular Sovereignty: Rather than being a legitimate authority figure installed by external sources, the Big Bad is elected or selected from from those below to implement an agenda. These villains are both easier and harder to combat than their cousins; since they achieved their authority through consent they can be discredited if shown to be incompetent or a Straw Hypocrite. Unfortunately, these Big Bads rarely bring their organization down with them unless they were a special breed of Bad Ass or Magnificent *******. There are always a long line of wannabe evil presidents and pirate captains in the wings...
• Corruption: The Big Bad decides that rather than recruit from those interested, he'll instead make an applicant pool by means of The Dark Side, Being Tortured Makes You Evil, More than Mind Control, or the dreaded chocolate chip cookies of doom! To undo this usually requires an I Know You Are In There Somewhere Fight and a lesson about how Good Feels Good but those corrupted tend to be harder to break free (and for the villain to control) than Mind Control below.
• Fear: The bad guy controls their Mooks with good old Machiavellian Fear. Because Authority Equals Asskicking, he will use threats of violence on them and/or their loved ones. The mooks are in no way evil, just working under threat of violence. Heroes can break this form of control in different ways. One is to rescue the hostages, beat up the Big Bad (thus proving him to be weak and "harmless"), convincing the mooks of the Power of Friendship, or demonstrating that it is he who should be feared. If the odds turn against a particular villain, there's also the chance of the mooks getting their own back. Criminals and crime organizations tend to be fond of this one.
  • Prejudice: Villains love controlling prejudiced minions, because nothing short-circuits a minion's critical thinking abilities like whipping up hatred and a desire to dominate an 'other'. If revealing the villain to be a secret target of the bigotry or a Straw Hypocrite is too distasteful for the hero, they need to hunker down for long campaign to eliminate or at least ameliorate the minions' prejudice.
  • Fear of Losing Privileges: The villain ensures loyalty by stating that the heroes want to do things like free their slaves and reduce their political power — this generally only works if the evil minions are part of a noble class. Unless the heroes have more money than Mammon, they're not going to be able to provide compensation for their loss of status even if the outcome is fair. Conversely, select Elite Mooks can be convinced to turn against the Big Bad if doing so would (temporarily, hopefully) give them greater privileges.
• (Fanatical) Loyalty: Nothing beats blind loyalty in minions. The minions are loyal for one or more of the following reasons:
  • Agenda: The villain has The Plan where Utopia Justifies the Means, and the mooks heartily agree in the guise of Well Intentioned Extremists or Black Shirts.
  • Acceptance: The mooks are poor, ugly, diseased, mutants, or an entire caste/race/nation of people who are marginalized. The villain shows that Dark Is Not Evil by giving them a home, relief, and promises of justice and equality (which often overlaps with Agenda). He may or may not be lying because Equal-Opportunity Evil means more minions.
  • Indoctrination: The mooks are trained from birth and taught to love, fear, and obey the villain. In all of these cases, the best way to undo support is to expose (or frame!) the bad guy as a Straw Hypocrite.
  • Kindness: The villain has personally helped, rescued, or enfranchised the minion or one of their loved ones, who follows him out of gratitude. The villain may have done this altruistically as a Pet the Dog, in an attempt to get their loyalty, or it was completely unintended but they accept their fealty anyway.
  • Revenge: If the good guys have hurt someone, offering them a chance for revenge works wonders. Even better, some Big Bads pin their crimes on the heroes and then get those hurt to sign up. Unfortunately, if they ever find out (say, from the heroes) that it was the Big Bad who was actually responsible for the loss that inspired them to seek revenge, they will turn on the Big Bad with a vengeance.
  • Respect: The minions genuinely respect and admire the villain. This is usually because the villain is charismatic, an effective and reasonable leader, or they think he's a great guy. These minions are the least likely to betray the villain, but they may pull a Mook Face Turn if something happens to destroy their respect for him.
  • Blind Obedience: The minions genuinely believe their boss to be incapable of error, usually paired with an oath for Undying Loyalty to make questioning their authority the farthest thing from their mind. My Master, Right or Wrong sometimes crop up.
• Money: Money is a valid super power after all, and the bad guy hires Punch Clock Villains to do his evil bidding. Being motivated by filthy lucre (or having Signed Up for the Dental), the best way for heroes to cause a mass desertion is either to outbid the bad guy or bankrupt him. If the villain is rich enough, this can be the most effective kind of control.
• Love: The Big Bad is an emotional manipulator, The Vamp, or has More than Mind Control / Love Is in the Air as a power. They can also love and inspire love in others. All his or her minions do evil out of love.
• Mind Control / Remote Control: Loyalty is such a finicky thing. It takes ages to create, can be crumbled in seconds, and requires continuous upkeep. Some villains decide to take loyalty (and free will) out of the equation with mind control, and/or robotic minions. The downside is that they can be Turned Against Their Masters and/or shut down by pulling a plug.
• Sadism: The bad guys follow the Big Bad because he gives them a way to indulge their vices, be it hurting people, fighting, killing, mad scientific experiments, or just plain being cruel to other people. They particularly love orders from the Big Bad that give them free rein to do whatever they want, usually to some chosen victim. It's unlikely that the hero can offer them more than the Big Bad, but if they can manipulate either side into Even Mooks Have Loved Ones or a Villainous Demotivator, betrayal will ensue.
• Birthright: The Big Bad has some sort of birthright (for example, he's some sort of feudal warlord) and the mooks are bound to him by a code of honor/duty. Usually The Caligula or God Save Us From The Queen. Only outright assassination or a coup d'etat from a good sibling can stop them.
• Power: Asskicking Equals Authority or some other such variant; the Big Bad is followed because he is the strongest. Can be undone if The Hero defeats him or otherwise proves himself powerful enough in some other fashion. This works best when the Big Bad possesses godlike abilities.
• Incidental Importance: This tactic, favored by Emperor Scientists and Dark Messiahs especially, is to provide some sort of benefit to their minions that is unrelated to their ruling over them. The idea is that if this person is buttressing their economy or mass-curing plagues around the countryside, they'll be able to do so better (or alternatively, threaten not to so do) if they get authority alongside it. These villains need to be undercut by separating the benefit from the authority figure or just showing that there is Always Someone Better.
• Divine Right: The villian claims to be a god or has the blessing of a god to be The Leader. Alternatively, may be a Dark Messiah faking/actually possessing either divine or demonic backing. Doesn't matter if they are Good or Evil; they will sometimes be worshipped and followed purely because they are divine.
• Being the Lesser Evil: In a world with Black and Grey Morality, the Evil Overlord gets assistance from the population because they're fighting against Eldritch Abominations. What's a little slavery and torture compared to living in mordor? If the heroes can't immediately provide a better alternative, i.e. they really do need the Less Evil Side's assistance, a Conspiracy Redemption may be in order.
  • Point of No Return: This villain is supported by his minions for one reason; if the villain falls, they will be severely punished by a legitimate authority. If the minions didn't do anything to earn punishment an honest promise from the hero to spare them will get many of them to abandon their leader

 

[CrumpleHornedSnorkak]

Well, in my WIP the bad guys henchmen are people who have been, for want of a better word, brainwashed -- I suppose. Like, empty shells 'bewitched' to do the antagonists bidding. I suppose it could be a mixture of willing people, and unwilling people.

If he has been hiding, he could always have 'hoodwinked' voulnerable people. Or homeless types who have no hope left in life. Etc. people who have sought him out, ie. those who were loyal to him before his supposed death, go looking for him, or stumble across him -- he could even seek those people out. If they were loyal to him, he could surely trust them to not reveal his plans etc. and then they can act in stead to gather the troups etc.

 

[shamguy4]

thanks!
cool site

 

[shamguy4]

see... the thing is he wont take anybody.... his goal beforehand was to 'prune' the world of certain types of people.
this means only certain select type of people would even come back to him. And there are not many left after what happened (and he ran away)... Yet somehow I need him to amass an army if this book is to take place!

 

[CrumpleHornedSnorkak]

What about sending the few he deemed worthy to scour the world for those who fit the bill? Cloning? Ha! Maybe he needs to lower his standards??

 

[Jonathan C]

see... the thing is he wont take anybody.... his goal beforehand was to 'prune' the world of certain types of people.
this means only certain select type of people would even come back to him. And there are not many left after what happened (and he ran away)... Yet somehow I need him to amass an army if this book is to take place!

Mercenaries would be a nice start. Or summoning otherworldy forces (or just foreign ones if that doesn't work for your setting).

Then there are lies- how many people actually know that he is so prejudiced? He can recruit them and then dispose of them later if they don't. Or if they do, pretend he was framed; pretend he has changed; hide his involvement, etc.

And he can use a puppet leader- if he isn't popular, then he just hires somebody to act the part of leader for him and keeps his involvement secret, ruling from the shadows. Someone popular and charismatic who espouses a popular cause that people can rally around. The army isn't secret, but the fact that he is the one in charge of it is.

 

[ratsy]

Yeah I was going to suggest mercenaries. May be hard to amass a full army of them secretly though....

I may go this route. Have him in hiding in one of the largest militias in land. Maybe make him get promoted to "top dog". Then he has an army who will obey him without question.

Or the old , adviser to the king, corruption from the inside...

Could work

 

[TheDustyZebra]

see... the thing is he wont take anybody.... his goal beforehand was to 'prune' the world of certain types of people.
this means only certain select type of people would even come back to him. And there are not many left after what happened (and he ran away)... Yet somehow I need him to amass an army if this book is to take place!

Well, pruning the world of certain types of people is what Voldemort was about, and he managed to keep the whole army thing reasonably secret, up to and including the fact of his own existence.

When one is interested in promoting one sort of people and eliminating the other, it does tend to attract followers of the first sort. And they do tend to be the fanatical ones who thrive on keeping secrets from the other sort.

 

[Drakai]

Through fear. My antagonist got his army of robots through hacking and his army of unbreakably loyal machines and total control he achieved through surveillance is enough to protect his reign.

On the other hand, does antagonists really have an underlying reason to be bad? Can't they just be bad? Is that wrong?

 

[sknox]

If he has them for years, and they haven't done any fighting, then they aren't an army. Sorry.

They could be followers, minions, an entire tribe. They could be assembled in a mountain fastness or on an island or beyond some magic barrier. But they aren't going to be an army.

For one thing, they have aged, at least the original recruits have aged. For another, you can only drill for so long. Sooner or later, they have to fight in order to maintain any sense of unit cohesion.

Maybe you could send them Over the Sea (or Over the Mountains) and they could do some fighting and conquering there. That way, when you bring them back to the main stage, they are hardened veterans. They would also provide your Antagonist with a nice income. Also, they could take women and have families, but those would all be women from far away, so the army would have no ties with their eventual main victims.

There would be rumors of this, naturally. But never any proof. All armies have deserters, but Antagonist could retain a body of assassins who would hunt them down. A few might slip away, but who would believe their fantastic tales?

-= Skip =-

 

[shamguy4]

On the other hand, does antagonists really have an underlying reason to be bad? Can't they just be bad? Is that wrong?

well that was a topic and it turns out its more realistic when there is an underlying reason and it gives more depth to your book.

see: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/539188-more-than-one-antagonist.html

 

[ratsy]

I am a huge fan of the antagonist being believable. They need to have more motivation than just being evil or bad. An antagonist needs to back their actions up with reasonable motivation. Whether it is religion, revenge, or a believable skewed view of the world.

 

[Drakai]

I am a huge fan of the antagonist being believable. They need to have more motivation than just being evil or bad. An antagonist needs to back their actions up with reasonable motivation. Whether it is religion, revenge, or a believable skewed view of the world.

What about demons? Malicious spirits and ghosts etc?

 

[erisiamk]

My antagonist probably gained most of his support through his respect and political charisma. The basic premise in my WIP is that he was the best hope for an empire to defend themselves from a godlike, demonic entity that terrorised the world for the best part of 400 years, and it was through his skill and leadership that the empire were able to fend of this entity's attacks while continuing to grow.

Once we're in the novel's time frame, pretty much everyone in the empire respects him as a leader, and people trust his judgement as being "for the greater good" even when sinister ulterior motives develop. When he decides to enter war with the rival empire that the good guys are part of, most of his people believe that they're doing the right thing. Of course, as the protagonists make him more and more desperate and his persona is tested, people start to realise the evil they're committing in his name, and I've been debating for a while whether the antagonist's own men decide to kill him before the protagonists can capture him, having realised his sinister ulterior motives.

This is just me personally, but I'd like to think that the antagonist's followers aren't just in the mindset "oooh let's do some evil and nasty things today" because, in real life, who honestly thinks like this?

 

[sknox]

Failed assassinations can be fun. It shows people trying while at the same time emphasizing how well-protected (or dumb lucky) the bad guy is.

 

[paranoid marvin]

They could be part of a secret society, awaiting the day when they will throw off their disguises and revolt. In this way they could infiltrate the army, police, secret service etc. so that when the time was right they could spring into action.

Of course there are different motivations. Unless he has a vast fortune, it is highly unlikely that mercenaries would spend months/years working undercover for no additional pay. It is more likely that he is a charismatic leader who has made promises that those who follow him now will be richly rewarded when he gains power.

 

[sknox]

paranoid marvin makes a good point. Don't think only about The Army, in the sense of thousands of men all in camp, banners arrayed. There could be that piece, but having fifth columnists is a great idea. Another angle would be bandits. Or, at least, locals *think* they are bandits, when in fact they are small groups who can either strike independently or who can join together to form a larger force. A flash army!

 

[Gordian Knot]

Many a dictator in the real world keep their soldiers loyal by making sure they get the best treatment over the rest of the citizenry. Keeps them loyal because the soldiers don't want to lose their perks. Likewise a powerful motive for them to support the boss.

If your antagonist was once in power and removed, or left, as you seem to suggest, he could start contacting the people who supported him before. "Remember how good you had it when I was in charge? Want to have that power again? Join me, and oh, spread the word will you?"

There is no better interest than self interest!