Dialogue splices...

[Jo Zebedee]

First, are these splices?

"No, if they see the state of her, someone will ask questions."

"No wonder, we're in the middle of nowhere."

If so, is it the statement at the beginning that is making them splices, and would it bother you to read dialogue written like this? The dialogue I am trying to capture is wordy, conversational and very, very fast. Cheers all.

 

[Hex]

As the annoying person who found them splicey I feel the need to explain what I meant. It kind of depends on the conversation they were part of. In this case:

“Shouldn’t you take her with you?”

“No, if they see the state of her, they’ll know something happened.”

I would read the answer to the question ("Shouldn't you take her with you?") as "No [I shouldn't take her with me].", and then the explanation of why not ("If they see the state of her, they'll know something happened."), and I'd put a full stop after the "No".

(but it's all personal taste etc. and I am deep in editing mode)

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Step outside, this minute. I can see your point, actually, but I also know the dialogue if spoken would run on and consider the whole clause as an answer to the question. (So, who's volunteering to get totally confused by sitting beside me at Brighton, and listening to an evening of such falling-out-of-your-mouth horror?)

I suppose the bottom line is, how annoying is it? Would it make people put the book down, or would it be seen as pretty benign. The books I'm reading at the moment insist on not using question marks, and it keeps pulling me out -- is that the same here?

 

[crystal haven]

I am probably with Hex on this, but can also see what you are intending to show.

It doesn't bother me, but I also find myself putting a pause in there naturally, so might not give the impression you want.

Could you explain it, somehow?

"No," he said, not even pausing for a breath ...

Something like that? Once the reader has got to know how this character speaks, it wouldn't be necessary to keep doing this.

Or maybe it's a rubbish idea.

 

[chrispenycate]

In dialogue, I don't find them disturbing at all. Certainly, were it me speaking, I would almost certainly make a semicolon pause after the "No", as the response to the question, and the explanatory rest, but not everyone talks like this. The second one could take a semicolon (assuming an understood "It's" before the "no wonder"), but as long as there's some punctuation, it works (and I can't hear a full stop in there either; the two halves of the concept are too intimately connected to be bought to a halt with a falling inflection in the middle).

 

[Boneman]

I don't see a problem - it's realistic dialogue, the kind of thing people say all the time, because two brains are thinking along parallel lines, but have very slightly different things to agree on...

 

[Dozmonic]

I'd put the full stop. It's not going to be a long pause when the character is fast speaking.

 

[Mouse]

Doesn't even read as fast talking to me, just reads as normal dialogue. I don't think I'd have mentioned it if I'd been reading it, but looking at it now, all I want to do is remove one comma.

"No, if they see the state of her someone will ask questions."

(though reading it after I've hit post, I'm tempted to put the comma back. Your way's fine!)

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Ha! That's what I like, we're both right, but I can keep my dialogue since I have two books full of this sort of stuff. Excellent.

 

[Glitch]

In dialogue it looks fine to me.

 

[Hex]

I don't mind it sometimes but I wouldn't use it regularly. I accept I'm in a teensy minority, though

I really liked crystal haven's suggestion -- maybe the first time someone speaks? -- because then (and subsequently) it's more clearly a style decision, not a mistake.

But "Self-Editing for Fiction Writers" (which I've used before) seems to quite like the odd comma splice in dialogue -- and I mean proper comma splices, not the "No" example above (I agree, that one's very debatable).

 

[Jo Zebedee]

See, to me in dialogue it feels clunky without this sort of thing, like it's too formal. So, I'm not sure if it is actually a style decision -- or that I'd ever be smart enough to do such a thing -- and more just what sounds right. But you're not the only one who tells me off for splices in dialogue, so it may be that I do it too much. It is now on the radar for editing.

 

[Glisterspeck]

They read like speech sounds, so they don't bother me, but I also really like Crystal Haven's suggestion.

 

[Ursa major]

First, are these splices?

"No, if they see the state of her, someone will ask questions."

"No wonder, we're in the middle of nowhere."

If so, is it the statement at the beginning that is making them splices, and would it bother you to read dialogue written like this? The dialogue I am trying to capture is wordy, conversational and very, very fast. Cheers all.

I think they are comma splices (which is not to say I've never written somewhat similar examples of dialogue ). But more than that, both these two examples seem to be simply begging for speech tags:

"No," she said. "If they see the state of her, someone will ask questions."

"No wonder," he said. "We're in the middle of nowhere."
​

In the second example, there's also the problem that the same words can mean two different things, depending on the punctuation, and the comma not being the best punctuation mark to use isn't helping:

"No wonder. We're in the middle of nowhere."

"No wonder we're in the middle of nowhere."

 

[MemoryTale]

I think they are splices, but on the other hand people don't speak with correct grammar, so it reads fine to me

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I like it with Ursa's speech tags, but if it were mine, it would be:

"No wonder -- we're in the middle of nowhere."

and

"No -- if they see the state of her, someone will ask questions."

But then, I like my dashes.

 

[AMB]

Not knowing terribly much about grammar, I would say that the second one isn't a splice. In context, I think `no wonder' counts as a dependent clause.

As for the first one, I can't help thinking that if the stuff between the commas wasn't there `No, someone will ask questions' wouldn't be a problem. So how does it become a splice if you add the rest? Granted, `no' could stand alone, but it could anyway. I thought the point of grammar was to facilitate understanding, not make masochists of those who try to follow the rules.

As an aside, this came up on my feed reader the other day: http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/common-comma-error.aspx

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I think, on balance, it looks like this is working as well as anything else does! I do use saids, Ursa, but these came from a long dialogue section with a mix of dialogue and action tags and I have these sort of things often enough to need to know the principle can standalone. I definitely don't want to use too many full stops and make the speech staccato and, TDZ, since being tackled on my semi habit in dialogue I use dashes as much as I'm happy with at this stage, too. I shall merrily comma on! Thanks, everyone!

 

[Dream Walker]

It reads fine. Should you want to tweak it, you could go another way and replace the 'no' with a bit more, ' not now,'. That acts more as a perceptible response to the question, as well as being an open ended statement in relation to the dynamics of conversations.

 

[Hex]

Most people don't get the feeling of sticky little comma-feet crawling on their skin that I get from just a comma after the "No", then.

I'll go and sit in the corner and mumble to myself about pro-sentences