Tyrion foreshadowing in the HBO series: SPOILERS

Dunneroo

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I know there are some theories out there regarding Tyrion's true parentage and how he could possibly be part Targ and one of the dragon riders. My question is, did HBO foreshadow this and add fuel to this fire?

Here's my reasoning:

1) Varys bribing Shae to leave and explaining that he wants Tyrion to rule, which pushes his agenda of bringing a Targ back to power.

2) The way Tywin told Tyrion he wanted to throw him in the river when he was born, but he raised him as his son instead because he was a lannister, hinting at the fact he not his real son, but Tywin took him in and raised him as his own because he had lannister blood. In actuality, he has a Targ father, making him Tyrion Targaryn and a perfect candidate to be a dragon rider. I think this will unfold when Tyrion inevitably unites with Daenarys in the next book.

I read the books but it has been a long while so I can't remember the finer details but was wondering if anyone else picked up on this watching the HBO series?

Sorry about the spelling errors!
 
I know there are some theories out there regarding Tyrion's true parentage and how he could possibly be part Targ and one of the dragon riders. My question is, did HBO foreshadow this and add fuel to this fire?

Here's my reasoning:

1) Varys bribing Shae to leave and explaining that he wants Tyrion to rule, which pushes his agenda of bringing a Targ back to power.

2) The way Tywin told Tyrion he wanted to throw him in the river when he was born, but he raised him as his son instead because he was a lannister, hinting at the fact he not his real son, but Tywin took him in and raised him as his own because he had lannister blood. In actuality, he has a Targ father, making him Tyrion Targaryn and a perfect candidate to be a dragon rider. I think this will unfold when Tyrion inevitably unites with Daenarys in the next book.

I read the books but it has been a long while so I can't remember the finer details but was wondering if anyone else picked up on this watching the HBO series?

Sorry about the spelling errors!

This was the seoncd instance of Tywin STRONGLY hinting that Tyrion isn't his son. I think the showrunners have pretty much confirmed the A=J=T theory
 
I actually read the Tywin exchange as working against the Targ father theory - because he found Tyrion so abhorrent, but wouldn't kill him, precisely because so long as he felt Tyrion had Lannister blood, then he should be raised as one. If Tywin had doubts, I think the point made was that he wouldn't hesitate to kill Tyrion. So how would that foreshadow? Or is it simply that the issue of parentage has been raised?

The Varys exchange is interesting, though - watching as a TV viewer, I initially interpreted it as simply because nobody else was truly looking out for Kings Landing. However, on second thoughts, Maegery would and she is still ascended, the Lannister's still strong, and Tyrion's star is waning, making him politically vulnerable. So could well be a hint!
 
I didn't really see either point as suggesting what you claim it suggests. Varys didn't indicate he wanted Tyrion to rule, and we know he already has someone else in the wings he wants to rule, so it wouldn't make any sense for him to try. I think that's just Varys recognising that Tyrion is one of the decent nobles around who is actually interested in improving the kingdom rather than just playing the game of thrones. Given Varys claims only to act in the interests of the realm, it makes sense he'd want to aid and protect Tyrion.

On the conversation with Tywin, I agree with I, Brian; if anything it undermines any theory of Tyrion being a Targaryen. In addition, Tywin has, on numerous occasions, explicitly referred to Tyrion as his son.

I think the A+J=T theory's ridiculous, particularly given the almost certainty of Jon's actual parentage. It would be most tiresome and unoriginal if multiple key characters had virtually identical "secret" parentage. George RR Martin is a better writer than that.
 
I actually read the Tywin exchange as working against the Targ father theory - because he found Tyrion so abhorrent, but wouldn't kill him, precisely because so long as he felt Tyrion had Lannister blood, then he should be raised as one. If Tywin had doubts, I think the point made was that he wouldn't hesitate to kill Tyrion. So how would that foreshadow? Or is it simply that the issue of parentage has been raised?

Tyrion is a Lannister regardless of whether or not Tywin is his father. Tyrion's mother was Joanna, Tywin's cousin, and also a Lannister.
 
Personally I think Jaime and Cersei are the bastards and Tyrion is Tywin's only true-born son.
 
In one of the ealier seasons Tywin specifically said that since he cannot prove Tyrion is not his, he chose to raise him as if he were.
 
I'm with I,Brian and Gumboot on this. The idea that Tyrion is the ******* son of Joanna and Aerys never held much weight for me anyway, specifically because there really wasn't much in the way of solid evidence to back it up. Yes, I've read all the clues as to why the theory exists, but I personally don't feel it stands up.

I think Gumboot raises an excellent point as well; it's all but established canon fact that R+L=J. The evidence is overwhelming. But to have that exact same type of situation with another character cheapens the use of such a thing. Part of why R+L=J works is that Jon's parentage has always been in question, Tyrion's, not.

Would we all like to believe that Tyrion's natural father was not the wretched monster he was raised by? Sure, but it's not the case. Let's examine a few things about Twyin's character:

Twyin Lannister is known for his unparalleled intelligence, cunning, and ruthless (we'll exclude Tyrion himself for the sake of argument). There's a reason you can't ask the Reynes of Castamere about how Tywin deals with slights. Yes, Aerys II had kind of a thing for Mrs. Twyin, which caused understandable friction between King and Hand. Twyin isn't the type of man who would "suck it up and deal" with his wife being constantly hit on in front of him. He put the blame with Aerys, but I cannot and will not believe that if Tywin so much as suspected that Aerys had done anything more than ogle his Joanna, he would have found some way of retribution, and for a slight that personal, he would not have remained quiet/idle waiting for the perfect opportunity with the uncertain prospect of war. A personal slight requires personal retribution. With Tywin being as exceedingly intelligent/cunning/ruthless as he is, he would've taken more immediate action.

As to his comments that Tyrion is not his son, that's simple. Tywin Lannister is a great and powerful man. Aerys II's paranoia and jealousy drove Tywin to quit as Hand, and Ser Ilyn Payne lost his tongue for saying that it was Tywin Lannister to truly rules as king. Tywin is an epically formidable foe; feared by lords and smallfolk alike, even those warring against him tread cautiously, and the lords of the realm know that to stand against Lord Tywin Lannister means you're tossing the dice because if you lose, you lose everything.

A man as great/powerful/feared as Tywin Lannister knows damn well his reputation precedes him, and it's a reputation he relishes. A man as infamous as Tywin Lannister hides nothing and is ashamed of nothing. Except... there's no possible way I could have fathered a dwarf. That mangled, stunned, grotesque little thing did not come from my loins. No possible way. We Lannisters are lions, chiseled out of alabaster, emeralds and spun gold. That little creature isn't mine.

But if that's the case, why not just kill Tyrion? It's flat out stated in the book that if Tyrion were "not a Lannister," he would've been slaughtered or left out to die of exposure the way the small folk handle "grotesques." If Tywin had serious cause to believe that Tyrion were not his own, two things would have happened. 1) Tywin the ruthless would damn will have gotten rid of any get not his own, especially a deformed one, and one that killed his lady wife. 2) Tywin the ruthless would have gone after the man who raped his beloved lady wife with all the cruelty, cunning, malice and rage he had, determined to destroy every last thing the rapist held dear.

Again, this is a personal thing. One could argue that Tywin did take revenge on Aerys II (presumed rapist) by destroying the Royal Family. But technically, Tywin didn't. Tywin quit as Hand and went back to Casterly Rock. He sat around while Robert warred his way through the realm, and showed up in KL once Robert's victory was all but assured. Not only did he not personally kill Aerys, he had no hand in it at all. It was Jaime's action, not based on anything his father said/did/etc., but based on saving lives. As for Elia and Rhaenys, sure he ordered them to die, but they certainly weren't involved in Joanna's 'rape,' so I view that as an entirely separate issue.

Tyrion, much to his chagrin (and secret shame), is Tywin's son.
 
I tend to take things from the show with a pinch of salt with regard to applying them to the books. We know that the showrunners know some things about the future of the series but we don't know exactly what, how much, and how closely they are sticking to it.

I think the Varys scene tells us nothing about this, partly because it's heavily implied that Varys did what he did on Tyrion's behalf. I don't think (book) Varys would have wanted Tyrion in charge for those reasons anyway, in the same way he didn't want Kevan in charge. At this stage Tyrion would still be part of the Lannister regime that he wants to replace with Aegon.

I'm slightly sceptical about the strength of evidence it is that Tywin doesn't like referring to Tyrion as his son, because Tywin hates him anyway. This isn't a Ned and Jon Snow siutation. He hates him because he's a dwarf, he hates him because Joanna died giving birth to him, and he hates him because of the way he acted in the past and some of the ways he continues to act. Those are real grievances Tywin holds against Tyrion, not just a cover for his secret true reason for hating him, that he is Aerys' son. I lean towards believing that A+J=T, but I don't think Tywin knew it, or even suspected, because if he did then I think he actually would have just thrown baby Tyrion down a well or whatever. These may still be indirect hints from GRRM, however.

Tyrion is a Lannister regardless of whether or not Tywin is his father. Tyrion's mother was Joanna, Tywin's cousin, and also a Lannister.
Not in the eyes of a Westerosi, he'd be a Hill not a Lannister.
 

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