Defining the cyberpunk genre

JaiGuru

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Hello everyone.

I was hoping to ask a few questions about the nature and definition of the cyberpunk genre of science fiction. I am -not- a particularly scholarly person so I likely wont know much of the terminology and I would love to be corrected on it if I misuse it.

My primary question is whether or not pieces that celebrate the melding of technology and human-kind/society at large can be considered cyber punk? Is there a further sub-genre classification or an entirely different title for this type of theme?

Most of the work I find from western authors of the genre from the 1980's was distinctly dystopian without much affinity for the ways in which technology was influencing society at large. For those young enough, anime and other movies from the time seem to take a slightly less aggressive tone towards it, making allowances for "good" interactions.

Any thoughts? I really don't know myself so I'm hoping more to hear a discussion than participate, though I will ask questions if they arise.

Thanks for reading!
 
Cyberpunk does seem to have a dystopian bent to it. There's biopunk now, as well, centring on biotechnology issues, and nanopunk is emerging. Obviously, that focuses on nanotechnology aspects.

Have you tried looking up transhumanism? That's a movement, but it's produced some fiction which is more tech-positive. There are quite a few transhumanist sf stories, or stories covering that area, out there.
 
In some ways, cyberpunk is set in a recognisable near future - a book with cyberpunk ideas, set far in the future on a distant planet, would probably be considered SF rather than cyberpunk.

The problem for cyberpunk is the same for most genres that appear 'from nowhere' - most things that follow the first book (most people would probably say Gibson's Neuromancer was the first of the genre), tend to use many of the same motifs - so the dystopian world Gibson developed has been used/abused by most following authors.

Gibson moved away from dystopian future to a more realistic but still technically involved present/near future (I don't recollect him ever specifying the actual date in his books) - the Hubertus Bigend trilogy (Pattern Recognition, Spook Country, Zero History) just take a sort of cyberpunk view of today's infatuations/technology. Although technology plays a big part in these books, they are also about our attitudes towards technology and the effect it can have on modern life.

My opinion is that although some of the current 'cyberpunk' authors are not too bad, none of them are anywhere near as good as Gibson - the one I would say gets closest is Bruce Sterling.

As you can tell I'm a huge fan of Gibson!
 
Abernovo gives some good advice.

I don't think that it necessarily means a negative outcome, though certainly that is the message of most cyberpunk, maybe from William Gibson on forward. Cyborgs and AI tend to be portrayed as a bad thing: for example the Terminator, Star Trek, and Matrix franchises have popularized that view.

Iain M. Banks and Anne McCaffrey promoted at least a positive or neutral view of big AI in their respective works. I tend to be rather neutral myself. The message that cybernetics means a loss of humanity need not be the only one, if limits are set and some harmony is sought between biology and technology.
 
From Mirrorshades: The Cyberpunk Anthology (1986): "This book showcases writers who have come to prominence within this decade.... Cyberpunk is a product of the Eighties milieu.... But its roots are deeply sunk in the sixty-year tradition of modern popular SF...." A list of influences follows: Ellison, Delany, Spinrad, Moorcock, Aldiss, Ballard. Also Stapledon, Wells, Niven, Anderson, Heinlein. And then Farmer, Varley, Dick, Bester, Pynchon. "...a concern for literary craftsmanship...fashion-conscious to a fault...they prize their garage-band esthetic.... They love to grapple with the raw core of SF: its ideas... in some sense a return to roots..." Then a list of current practitioners: "Gibson, Rucker, Shiner, Shirley, Sterling". Mirrorshades as an icon of the group: "They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." Cyberpunk "has a global range...decentralization...fluidity...comes from the realm where the computer hacker and the rocker overlap..." Technology is "visceral.... Not outside us, but next to us. Under our skin; often, inside our minds... the theme of body invasion...mind invasion..." Cyberpunks "are fascinated by interzones". "Cyberpunk is widely known for its telling use of detail... It favors 'crammed prose': rapid, dizzying bursts of novel information, sensory overload that submerges the reader in the literary equivalent of the hard-rock 'wall of sound'."

Swanwick's "A User's Guide to the Post-Moderns" (IAsfm, August 1986) makes the case that SF has twice-a-decade revolutions in controlling groups of hot new writers who, with more or less resistance, come in and set up shop. However, the 80s generation "marched into the Eternal City and found it undefended. The lion gates were open; there were no archers on the walls. The citizenry turned out to throw flowers, and petty officials proffered the key to the city. The barbarians were dumbfounded. They'd spent years assembling their arms, perfecting their tactics, honing their skills, and they were spoiling for battle. They had to fight someone.

"They looked at one another."

And Swanwick proceeds to dump them into a magnetic field where Gibson, Sterling, Shiner, Bear, "possibly Rudy Rucker, and sometimes Pat Cadigan" drift to the cyberpunk pole and Willis, Robinson, Kessel, Sanders, Scholz, and Kelly drift to the humanist pole. (As would Swanwick if he possessed the cyberpunk habit of referring to himself in the third person - though his Vacuum Flowers is superb, quintessential crossover cyberpunk, much like Kelly's "Cyberpunk trilogy" of stories.) The humanists "produce literate, often consciously literary fiction, focusing on human characters who are generally seen as frail and fallible and us[e] the genre to explore large philosophical questions, sometimes religious in nature" whereas cyberpunks are "stereotypically characterized by a fully-realized high-tech future, 'crammed' prose, punk attitudes including antagonism to authority, and bright inventive details." Outlaw fantasists (mostly from Sterling's Texas), a "love-hate relationship with 'hot tech'" and other streams fed into "the cyberpunk thing". Again, a list of precursors: van Vogt/Harness, Bester/Ellison, Shirley (whom Swanwick calls a precursor rather than a cyberpunk proper - "It could be said that he serves as their John the Baptist figure" - which is hilarious in so many ways), Delany/Zelazny, and Varley and Stapledon. Swanwick quotes Sterling as saying this came about because "SF was drifting without a rudder, at the mercy of every commercial breeze." And it goes on to talk about the shootout at high noon, at the Hugo and Nebula awards, in which the Cyberpunk big gun, Neuromancer, took everything with ease.

But it's important to note that the above, I hope is informative, but it's also a lot of BS. Two extremely skilful writers bring their talents to bear on dramatizing the issue, making awards count for more than they do, making everything sound much more exciting and violent than it was, and - as can be seen in the fuzziness of it - it's partly myth even down to who's who doing what. Shirley is a very different kind of writer who tends more to horror and a true punk attitude without so much "cyber". Most of the "cybers" aren't very punk at all but middle-class suburban as Sterling will admit about himself in distinction with Shirley. Rucker is a gonzo mathematician and not a cyberpunk at all. And, indeed, Cadigan is often the cyberpunkiest of them all but is often not cyberpunk at all. And Shiner and some others never achieved critical mass. Whereas Bear, who sometimes ("Hardfought"'s crammed techno-explosion and "Blood Music"'s transformative biotech invasion) fits, was really just center-core good ol' Hard SF. So cyberpunk almost boils down to two writers: Sterling and Gibson, and a horde of commercial copycats. And it's to be noted that cyberpunk was basically over as a creative force by the time it was being noticed - the very 1985 awards and 1986 books and articles mark the end, when you can look back on what was going on from c.77-84, rather than any beginning.

See Cheap Truth and other writings, especially the checklist, for yet more information. ("Vincent Omniaveritas" is Bruce Sterling and, contrary to Gramm838, I'm a huge fan of Sterling and think he can think and write circles around Gibson, but early Gibson weren't too bad, neither. ;))
 
Thank you to everyone who replied. I am reading and considering all that has been said.
 
J-Sun has done a great deal of research into the subject and I have to applaud him (her?) for that.

However, and this going to be strange bearing in mind that I'm a fan of Gibson - most of the people listed in the post are American, and I have a real problem with most American authors, because they write in a very America-centric manner; whereas Gibson (who I know is Canadian anyway) has set a lot of his books in and around Japan, and London, and he comes across as much more global. Which of course is one of the points about cyberpunk.

Having said all that, I'm currently reading a cyberpunk book by Michael Shean which is set in dystopian new future Seattle and once I got over the big surprise in the book, which I thought was a bit of a cop-out, it's not too bad a book (it's the second in a series - first was Shadow of a Dead Star, second is Redeye)
 
Is a gritty urban setting always necessary for cyberpunk? When I think cyberpunk, I always think of cities in the Blade Runner style, all rain and neon and people in drab clothes contrasted with the arty types who look frankly ridiculous. But considering the proliferation of technology these days, couldn't a cyberpunk story pretty much be anywhere in the world?
 
My own view is that, like Steampunk, it's best not to think of something as either "in" or "out" of the genre, but influenced by it to different degrees. I think there's something quite cyberpunk in the grotty, lived-in spacecraft in Alien, for instance.

To my mind, cyberpunk requires people (usually skilled ones) turning high technology to their own ends. The people tend to be quirky and individualistic, often renegades, so I suppose it is often a subgenre about character and rebellion. It seems to be not so much about giving technology to the people, though, but about individual people taking technology and making it their own.

I suppose the other side of this is the idea of monolothic organisations, usually companies, to fight against. While you could write a sort of socialist, popular-rising cyberpunk, the majority of people are usually mindless corporate serfs, and democracy is either a sham or just doesn't exist at all. The emphasis often seems to be on surviving, rather than overthrowing, the status quo.

I did write down a few thoughts on Gibson's Sprawl trilogy a while back, if that's of interest: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/541682-going-back-to-gibson-the-sprawl-trilogy.html
 
Is a gritty urban setting always necessary for cyberpunk? When I think cyberpunk, I always think of cities in the Blade Runner style, all rain and neon and people in drab clothes contrasted with the arty types who look frankly ridiculous. But considering the proliferation of technology these days, couldn't a cyberpunk story pretty much be anywhere in the world?

It can be.

Texhnolyze (TV Series 2003

This is one of the "different" kind of cyberpunk I've seen. It's pretty slow and boring at the start but rewarding at the end. I'd recommend it for anyone trying to write a cyberpunk.
 
My own view is that, like Steampunk, it's best not to think of something as either "in" or "out" of the genre, but influenced by it to different degrees. I think there's something quite cyberpunk in the grotty, lived-in spacecraft in Alien, for instance.

To my mind, cyberpunk requires people (usually skilled ones) turning high technology to their own ends. The people tend to be quirky and individualistic, often renegades, so I suppose it is often a subgenre about character and rebellion. It seems to be not so much about giving technology to the people, though, but about individual people taking technology and making it their own.

I suppose the other side of this is the idea of monolothic organisations, usually companies, to fight against. While you could write a sort of socialist, popular-rising cyberpunk, the majority of people are usually mindless corporate serfs, and democracy is either a sham or just doesn't exist at all. The emphasis often seems to be on surviving, rather than overthrowing, the status quo.

I did write down a few thoughts on Gibson's Sprawl trilogy a while back, if that's of interest: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/541682-going-back-to-gibson-the-sprawl-trilogy.html

I responded to your Sprawl post on your own page, Toby.

I agree that a dystopian background isn't necessary but then it depends on the ability of the author to be able to develop something interesting which for most of would appear to be hidden in normal life, but for me at least, cyberpunk is more about the technology rather than the characters.

Steampunk? I keep wishing I could get into it, but I find that most books are very derivative; the best I've read are the Ketty Jay books by Chris Wooding (although I did like the Steamboy anime).
 
J-Sun has done a great deal of research into the subject and I have to applaud him (her?) for that.

Thanks, but it's no research - just quoting a couple of essays that stuck with me. :) ("Him", BTW.) But I'm posting to say that I just came across something I hadn't read before that I think is brilliant and will stick with me just like the Sterling and Swanwick: What is Cyberpunk? by Rudy Rucker. (Don't be alarmed at the length - the essay is pretty short but is in a gigantic page of all his essays.) I think this is a really good statement and should interest the OP and others.

Probably see also Cyberpunk Lives!, which I'm now reading.

-- Yeah, while maybe not on the level of the other, that was pretty good and relevant as well. But Shirley got ripped off because Rucker didn't include an old Shirley pic. Man, they look so young. Everybody keeps getting older except me. ;)
 
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