Darkened Fragments, My First Chapter: 3209 words

Status
Not open for further replies.

WriterJosh

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2013
Messages
183
Location
Twitter: @zeddicker Story Blog: zeddicker.blogspot
What is about to follow is the first chapter of the novel I'm currently trying to get representation for. I should very much like a critique of this beginning.

Some background; Becca and Pat live on a large heath of dead rock where little vegetation grows. The heath was one of the sites where a great Ragnarok occurred, and some remnants of that battle are still around. Her "job" is scavenging among the rock looking for anything she can use or sell.

THE RAGGED LANDS
“You can’t chop at it like that. You might break it.”


Becca took the shovel from Pat’s hand and gently began to dig at the shale, scraping it away from the glinting metal.

“See? Like this. We want it as intact as we find it if we ever hope to sell it.”


Pat smiled at her and took the shovel back, performing the same actions she did. He had been applying too much pressure before. Now he wasn’t applying enough. Becca smiled back at him and grabbed her own shovel. Gently, but with more force than her brother, she began to clear away the packed shale around the crest.


“What is it, Becca?” asked Pat.


“I’m not sure,” she said. “I think it’s a helmet.”


The crest looked like a gryphon, and it was attached to something larger. It was too small to be a standard, so a helmet it must be. Or a rondel, but she doubted a rondel would take so much work to get it loose.


Becca’s back and neck were slick with sweat, but Pat’s fair skin hardly seemed to notice the oppressive heat. There was very little sun. Nothing in this land but the grey cast of clouds, as long back as anyone could remember. But somehow, the heat of the sun could always break through.


“A helmet,” said Pat. He paused in his scraping and a look of wonder shone on his face. “Maybe it belonged to Ronan!”


“I doubt it,” said Becca. “Ronan didn’t die here.”


“Ronan’s still alive,” said Pat. The poor thing. He smiled at her again; that sweet, angelic smile that had no malice, no ill will. “But he might have dropped a helmet here.”


Becca shook her head. She had forgotten for a moment that Pat held fast to the ending of the tale of Ronan; that he might some day return. She kept scraping, and decided it was time to change the subject.


“If we can get a fair price for this,” she said. “We might be able to get some mushrooms from Till’s market.”


“Mushrooms!” Pat shouted. He lost himself and began to dig faster, hacking again at the stone and threatening to shatter whatever lay beneath it.


“Pat, stop!” said Becca. She regretted the angry tone that crept into her voice. Pat needed to feel useful. He was here supposedly because he was much stronger than Becca and could reach the salvage items quicker. He was stronger than she, and quite a few others, but his unfocused strength was quickly becoming more liability than aid.


“Hey, I have an idea,” she said. Pat brightened. “Why don’t you go get the wagon? This looks like it’s armor, and could be heavy. I may need you to lift it out of the ground, but I’ll definitely need you to put it in the wagon.”


“Okay!” said Pat. He bounded away, dropping his shovel. Becca smiled at his retreating form and set to work clearing more of the shale away. It would take him only a few minutes to retrieve the wagon. In the meantime, she had to get the metal piece mostly clear.


It didn’t take her long, once Pat was gone and she was able to clear away the stone without having to stop and correct him every few minutes. Becca had cleared away a good chunk of the dead rock well before her brother arrived again, pulling the wagon behind him.


“It is a helmet,” he said. He crouched and stared as Becca gingerly took the nose guard in one hand, and the gryphon crest in the other and worked them back and forth, further loosening the dead earth around it. Pat gazed transfixed until it was free.


“A whole helmet!” he exclaimed. “We’re rich!”


“Calm down,” said Becca. “It’s not whole, Pat. Look. It’s missing a cheek guard, and the gryphon’s eyes used to be stones. See?” She pointed at the hollows of the gryphon’s eyes. “They probably had rubies in them. Ronan’s armies liked red.”


Pat’s face fell a bit. “Oh,” he said. “I bet only Ronan was rich enough to have real rubies in his helmet.”


“No,” said Becca. She held up the helmet to what little light there was and pulled her knife from her belt sack. As she cleaned the black dirt from the grooves and ridges in the lobstered neck guard, she patiently explained the old story again to her brother. “Rubies were more common back then,” she said. “Still pretty valuable, but richer soldiers could still afford to put them on their armor. Knights definitely could.”


“This was a knight’s helmet?” asked Pat.


“Could have been,” she said. She kept cleaning at the mud. “Not like it really matters, now.”


“If he had a helmet on,” said Pat. “How’d he die? Doesn’t a helmet protect you?”


Becca sighed. Trying to explain it in terms Pat would understand was like trying to gather water with a fish net. You might get results, but not the ones you were looking for.


“Helmets only protect the head,” she said. “And even then, there are things that can break a helmet.”


“Like what?”


“Like a sword, swung really hard,” she said. “Or an axe.” Her teeth were starting to grind together.


“If a sword can break a helmet, what good was it to wear one?” He had started asking questions, and wouldn’t stop until she could satisfy every last one.


“Well,” she said. “Let me ask you something. Do your hands get sore when you carry firewood in from the yard?”


“Sometimes,” said Pat.


“Right, even though you wear Da’s old gloves.”


“When I don’t wear the gloves I sometimes get splinters.”


“So, there you go,” said Becca.


Pat was silent for all of a minute.


“But what’s that got to do with helmets?”


“Just put this in the wagon and let’s go,” she said. With another sigh, she handed the helmet to Pat, who didn’t notice that Becca had been holding it aloft unaided and obviously could have put it into the wagon herself.


She glanced at today’s haul. One helmet, what looked like it might have been the quillion of a sword, but could also have been part of an ox-bow; it was too rusted and incomplete to tell, some iron crossbow bolts and the axel of an old wheelbarrow. She would be lucky to get them five copper shillings for the other items put together. The helmet was the richest part of it.


“I’ll ask a silver mark for it,” she said.


“Think there’s a spirit in there?” asked Pat.


“If there is, they better speak up soon,” said Becca.
“Otherwise, it’s going to market.”


The light was dimming, but the two of them kept on, Pat pulling the wagon and Becca clunking her shovel in the rocky ground every few steps, listening for the tell-tale hollow thunk noise that indicated there was more than shale packed beneath it. She kept one ear open for other noises, for rumblings in the ground other than those the wagon’s wheels made. There weren’t any, at least for now.

 
Last edited:
I won't crit it as I think The Judge will be along to tell you it's too long for crits (1500) max, and I'd get my wrists slapped. I think it's a nice enough opening but it takes too long to get to the crux of the scene, which I think is making it less hooky than it might be, and for me, is too distant from the character's experience. There are a lot of actions and dialogues, but I'd like it to be a little stronger in terms of Becca's voice and know a bit more about what's driving her.
 
I won't crit it as I think The Judge will be along to tell you it's too long for crits (1500) max.

Actually it's <1200 words. Not sure where the 3209 came from. (I'm guessing the OP posted too much, realised, cut it, but couldn't change the thread title.)
 
Okay. Since you're submitting, I'll be picky.


“You can’t chop at it like that. You might break it.” I think a number of agents dislike starting with dialogue like this -- it's not a big thing, but it might be worth considering. Also I wonder about having this on the same line as "Becca took..."

Becca took the shovel from Pat’s hand and gently began to dig technically, she began to dig gently/ gently dig at the shale -- like this she's beginning gently. Again it's a tiny detail.at the shale, scraping it away from the glinting metal.

“See? Like this. We want it as intact as we find it if we ever hope to sell it.” Why "as intact as we find it"? why not just "intact"?

Pat smiled at her and took the shovel back, performing the same actions she did. He had been applying too much pressure before. Now he wasn’t applying enough. Becca smiled back at him and grabbed her own shovel. Gently, but with more force than her brother, she began to clear away the packed shale around the crest. Lots of smiling back and forth -- I think this para could be tighter and more effective

“What is it, Becca?” asked Pat.

“I’m not sure,” she said. “I think it’s a helmet.” and I wonder if this dialogue adds -- it's just information and it could maybe be more neatly presented in the text.

The crest looked like a gryphon, and it was attached to something larger. It was too small to be a standard, so a helmet it must be. Or a rondel, but she doubted a rondel would take so much work to get it loose. [and this repeats the info in the dialogue

Becca’s back and neck were slick with sweat, but Pat’s fair skin hardly seemed to notice the oppressive heat. I twitched gently at the idea of skin noticing something There was very little sun. Nothing in this land but the grey cast of clouds, as long back as anyone could remember. But somehow, the heat of the sun could always break through. I think you could get this weather information over more gracefully

“A helmet,” said Pat. He paused in his scraping and a look of wonder shone on his face. “Maybe it belonged to Ronan!”

“I doubt it,” said Becca. “Ronan didn’t die here.” [okay -- now I'm interested. ]

“Ronan’s still alive,” said Pat. The poor thing. He smiled at her again; that sweet, angelic smile that had no malice, no ill will. “But he might have dropped a helmet here.”

Becca shook her head. She had forgotten for a moment that Pat held fast to the ending of the tale of Ronan; that he might some day return. She kept scraping, and decided it was time to change the subject.

“If we can get a fair price for this,” she said. “We might be able to get some mushrooms from Till’s market.” [but it's quite slow... I need to go in any case, but apart from Roanan, in whom I'm mildly interested, I'm not sure I'd keep reading. You write well. I'm picking on details.
 
Thanks for bringing it down under the 1500 -- saved me a job. :p

Anyway, while I'm here...

It's good of you to give us some background in your introductory spiel, but if this is the first part of the first chapter, it really ought to stand up on its own without your telling us anything (unless you have a prologue which explains it, of course, though then I'd wonder why it's a prologue and not chapter 1). In this respect, although it's obvious there's been a battle or something of the kind, but a while ago if things are rusty, and she's trying to get money from the finds, the landscape is wholly missing -- without your explanation I'd have no idea where they were. I really think you need something in there and quickly to give us an idea. I should say I recently had comments from an agent where he remarked that this was missing in one of my first scenes, and I'd got considerably more info about the locale than you have here.

Overall, for me this is starting a bit too slowly, and I'd consider pruning it heavily, especially the dialogue which really goes nowhere -- it's clear very quickly that Pat isn't a full twelve pence to the shilling, so you don't need to belabour it with the long talk between them. For me, also, there's no immediate hook, and nothing here that's compelling me to read on. I'm not someone who insists on having a wham-bam opening, but I do want to be intrigued by what people are doing and saying, and here although it's interesting, I don't know it's interesting enough.

I rather assume this is for adults, since you've not expressly said it's YA, but to my mind it reads as a bit simple, and not only because of Pat. I think that might be because there's no depth of emotion or thought from Becca. She's lumbered with a brother who is possibly going to ruin whatever they find, and there's no hint of self-pity or real anger or despair or anything else which might bring her alive -- the "Pat, stop!" isn't angry, it's just a bit annoyed. You need more here, to my mind -- and you need to make sure she doesn't come over as little short of a saint. (By and large we want to read about people who are flawed, not perfect characters.) Obviously you can't overload the first 1000 words with nothing but emotion, but a few more hints would be good.

As for the writing, it's workmanlike, but it's a bit repetitive, not very sharp/taut, and for me there's nothing to excite me, eg by way of unusual choice of words, or a clever piece of imagery, or snappy dialogue. Which is again leading me to think it's a bit, well, simple.

Sorry I can't be more enthusiastic. You've mastered the basics, which is always good, and I think it's got potential, not least with an apparently major character with some kind of learning disability, and a not-dead mythical figure who no doubt will turn up at some point, but for me it isn't there yet. A good useful draft, but in my view it needs to be a lot more polished before it's ready to go out into the world.

.
 
Last edited:
Ah another victim! Ah... er.... another gently considered critique, to ponder over and offer one's own personal, humble opinion. That's what others do, anyway.;)

I like the idea of scavenging old battlefields. Did you know, when there's a particularly bad storm at Gallipoli, there are still war items washed up? This is your opening, to the whole thing yes? Naturally I know nothing about the rest of the story, but I very quickly got the idea of what they were up to. I do have a problem with their ages, and I'm trying to work out if it's important or not, at this stage. At first I thought Pat was very, very young, because of what Becca says about him, but when she said get the wagon, I have to admit I thought he was off to get a horse-drawn one, so figured he was much older. Possibly not so good to have confusion in the opening, but wait and see what others say...

Some comments now, in red - all my own opinion, nothing more. the beauty of the critiques section is weighing up all the responses, to see if there's a consensus you might agree with. Here we go:

What is about to follow is the first chapter of the novel I'm currently trying to get representation for. I should very much like a critique of this beginning.

Some background; Becca and Pat live on a large heath of dead rock where little vegetation grows. The heath was one of the sites where a great Ragnarok occurred, and some remnants of that battle are still around. Her "job" is scavenging among the rock looking for anything she can use or sell.



THE RAGGED LANDS




“You can’t chop at it like that. You might break it.”


Becca took the shovel from Pat’s hand and gently began to dig at the shale, scraping it away from the glinting metal.

“See? Like this. We want it as intact as we find it if we ever hope to sell it.” Three 'it' in one sentence and there should be a comma after the second one, I feel. Maybe: 'we want it intact if we ever hope to sell it.' The other part of the sentence is redundant, really.

Pat smiled at her and took the shovel back, performing the same actions she did. He had been applying too much pressure before. Now he wasn’t applying enough. Becca smiled back at him and grabbed her own shovel. Gently, but with more force than her brother, she began to clear away the packed shale around the crest.

Consider opening here: the bit above isn't very hooky, just tells us a little about the protagonists, and isn't terribly inspiring. But the next sentence focuses the action very well, and actually it's interesting - why a helmet? why do they want it? What's its significance? You're about to answer those questions, but the reader will ask them all on their own, without the mechanics of how it's done previously.

“What is it, Becca?” asked Pat.

“I’m not sure,” she said. “I think it’s a helmet.”

The crest looked like a gryphon, and it was attached to something larger. It was too small to be a standard, so a helmet it must be. Or a rondel, but she doubted a rondel would take so much work to get it loose.

Becca’s back and neck were slick with sweat, but Pat’s fair skin hardly seemed to notice the oppressive heat. There was very little sun. Nothing in this land but the grey cast of clouds, as long back as anyone could remember. But somehow, the heat of the sun could always break through.Erm, relevance of this para? It's a hot day and Pat doesn't sweat as much and he's got fairer skin. If that's not going to be relevant immediately, I'd consider dropping it for now and staying with the helmet, which has got our attention - it's slightly distracting this 'telling'.

“A helmet,” said Pat. He paused in his scraping and a look of wonder shone on his face. “Maybe it belonged to Ronan!”

“I doubt it,” said Becca. “Ronan didn’t die here.”

“Ronan’s still alive,” said Pat. The poor thing.who? Ronan or Pat? He smiled at her again; that sweet, angelic smile that had no malice, no ill will. See, this gave me a picture, along with his cack-handedness of a five year old - rushing at things, not mature enough to consider carefully. And then the way he comes to heel at her command but she has to try not to upset him reinforced that. And why is Becca thinking that? Does she think that every time he smiles, or is it for the reader? It's for the reader, and I think it doesn't quite belong here. “But he might have dropped a helmet here.” But this is a great interest-grabber, what Pat says, and we know (I think) it's going to be relevant later.

Becca shook her head. She had forgotten for a moment that Pat held fast to the ending of the tale of Ronan; that he might some day return. I honestly think you don't need this telling again - what they said showed it so much better. She kept scraping, and decided it was time to change the subject. And so does that...

“If we can get a fair price for this,” she said. “We might be able to get some mushrooms from Till’s market.” Really? Are mushrooms that expensive? You do say at the end that she'd hoped to get a silver mark for it. Either mushrooms are really expensive, or this is a piece of tat. If it's the latter, that's a shame, because it's now become mundane, and all the talk coming up can't get that value back.

“Mushrooms!” Pat shouted. He lost himself and began to dig faster, hacking again at the stone and threatening to shatter whatever lay beneath it. So their circumstances are reduced, this is how they try to get money and are they the only ones out here? I got that there's a value to it, and Pat shouting like this will draw attention, won't it? Perhaps they are alone, but if there's value in an old battlefield there'd be every person who needs money, digging it over. If she shushes him, concerned that bigger boys might come along, I'd see that. Is he a little 'not right'? Because that's what I get from the next para. OR: he's five years old, and has that puppy enthusiasm. I'm confused because he's stronger than her...

“Pat, stop!” said Becca. She regretted the angry tone that crept into her voice. Pat needed to feel useful. He was here supposedly because he was much stronger than Becca and could reach the salvage items quicker. He was stronger than she, and quite a few others, but his unfocused strength was quickly becoming more liability than aid.Why is Becca thinking this? You've shown it much better in the actions that went on. You are tending to try to tell us everything, when their actions speak volumes...

“Hey, I have an idea,” she said. Pat brightened. “Why don’t you go get the wagon? This looks like it’s armor, and could be heavy. I may need you to lift it out of the ground, but I’ll definitely need you to put it in the wagon.”

“Okay!” said Pat. He bounded away, dropping his shovel. Becca smiled at his retreating form and set to work clearing more of the shale away. It would take him only a few minutes to retrieve the wagon. In the meantime, she had to get the metal piece mostly clear.

It didn’t take her long, once Pat was gone and she was able to clear away the stone without having to stop and correct him every few minutes. We've got that now... no need to repeat it, honest. Becca had cleared away a good chunk of the dead rock well before her brother arrived again, pulling the wagon behind him. Size of wagon? Is it a handcart or is it a wagon?

“It is a helmet,” he said. He crouched and stared as Becca gingerly took the nose guard in one hand, and the gryphon crest in the other and worked them back and forth, further loosening the dead earth around it.I was convinced it was rock, because you've never mentioned earth before. No reason earth shouldn't be there, but you've mentioned shale, stone and rock six times up till now, and it did seem that it should be incredibly hard to get items out of rock... Pat gazed transfixed until it was free.

“A whole helmet!” he exclaimed. “We’re rich!”

“Calm down,” said Becca. “It’s not whole, Pat. Look. It’s missing a cheek guard, and the gryphon’s eyes used to be stones. See?” She pointed at the hollows of the gryphon’s eyes. “They probably had rubies in them. Ronan’s armies liked red.”

Pat’s face fell a bit. “Oh,” he said. “I bet only Ronan was rich enough to have real rubies in his helmet.”

“No,” said Becca. She held up the helmet to what little light there was and pulled her knife from her belt sack. As she cleaned the black dirt from the grooves and ridges in the lobstered neck guard, she patiently explained the old story again to her brother.why? I mean, why is she telling him again? Maybe just have her speak without telling us why she's speaking - that would be much more natural, rather than telling us what she's about to say, and then make us hear it “Rubies were more common back then,” she said. “Still pretty valuable, but richer soldiers could still afford to put them on their armor. Knights definitely could.”

“This was a knight’s helmet?” asked Pat.

“Could have been,” she said. She kept cleaning at the mud. “Not like it really matters, now.”

“If he had a helmet on,” said Pat. “How’d he die? Doesn’t a helmet protect you?”

Becca sighed. Trying to explain it in terms Pat would understand was like trying to gather water with a fish net. You might get results, but not the ones you were looking for.

“Helmets only protect the head,” she said. “And even then, there are things that can break a helmet.”

“Like what?”

“Like a sword, swung really hard,” she said. “Or an axe.” Her teeth were starting to grind together.

“If a sword can break a helmet, what good was it to wear one?” He had started asking questions, and wouldn’t stop until she could satisfy every last one.

“Well,” she said. “Let me ask you something. Do your hands get sore when you carry firewood in from the yard?”

“Sometimes,” said Pat.

“Right, even though you wear Da’s old gloves.”

“When I don’t wear the gloves I sometimes get splinters.”

“So, there you go,” said Becca. I don't get any of that, sorry, and I question the relevance of it in an opening page. Is he right in the head, I asked myself again, here...

Pat was silent for all of a minute.

“But what’s that got to do with helmets?”

“Just put this in the wagon and let’s go,” she said. With another sigh, she handed the helmet to Pat, who didn’t notice that Becca had been holding it aloft unaided and obviously could have put it into the wagon herself.Why tell us that? We saw it, we knew she sent him off so she could get on with it, more safely. It's labouring a point, I'm afraid.

She glanced at today’s haul. One helmet, what looked like it might have been the quillion of a sword, but could also have been part of an ox-bow; it was too rusted and incomplete to tell, some iron crossbow bolts and the axel of an old wheelbarrow. She would be lucky to get them five copper shillings for the other items put together. The helmet was the richest part of it.

“I’ll ask a silver mark for it,” she said.

“Think there’s a spirit in there?” asked Pat.

“If there is, they better speak up soon,” said Becca.
“Otherwise, it’s going to market.” Those are the best lines in the opening, and you didn't need to explain - our imagination caught it immediately. ...

The light was dimming, but the two of them kept on, Pat pulling the wagon and Becca clunking her shovel in the rocky ground every few steps, listening for the tell-tale hollow thunk noise that indicated there was more than shale packed beneath it. She kept one ear open for other noises, for rumblings in the ground other than those the wagon’s wheels made. There weren’t any, at least for now.

I feel if you could rein in your tendency to explain everything to the reader, from Becca's pov, it would flow that bit better. I still have no idea how old they are, but I have a better idea of the world they live in, from the small clues you've given us. Allowing my imagination to draw the pictures is easier than you trying to tell me so much.

Hope this helps, I think I've been quite hard, but honest, and it's only my opinions after all!!

Good luck with it.
 
Last edited:
THE RAGGED LANDS
“You can’t chop at it like that. You might break it.”

Becca took the shovel from Pat’s hand and gently began to dig at the shale, scraping it away from the glinting metal.

“See? Like this. We want it as intact as we find it if we ever hope to sell it.”[

Pat smiled at her and took the shovel back, performing the same actions she did
Had?
. He had been applying too much pressure before. Now he wasn’t applying enough. Becca smiled back at him and grabbed her own shovel. Gently, but with more force than her brother, she began to clear away the packed shale around the crest.

“What is it, Becca?” asked Pat.

“I’m not sure,” she said. “I think it’s a helmet.”

The crest looked like a gryphon, and it was attached to something larger. It was too small to be a standard, so a helmet it must be. Or a rondel, but she doubted a rondel would take so much work to get it loose.

Becca’s back and neck were slick with sweat, but Pat’s fair skin hardly seemed to notice the oppressive heat. There was very little sun. Nothing in this land but the grey cast of clouds, as long back
Don't like 'long back'. Far back, or just as long as?
as anyone could remember. But somehow,
Would you actually make a pause here?
the heat of the sun could always break through.

“A helmet,” said Pat. He paused in his scraping and a look of wonder shone on his face. “Maybe it belonged to Ronan!”

“I doubt it,” said Becca. “Ronan didn’t die here.”

“Ronan’s still alive,” said Pat. The poor thing. He smiled at her again; that sweet, angelic smile that had no malice, no ill will. “But he might have dropped a helmet here.”

Becca shook her head. She had forgotten for a moment that Pat held fast to the ending of the tale of Ronan; that he might some day return. She kept scraping, and decided it was time to change the subject.

“If we can get a fair price for this,” she said. “We might be able to get some mushrooms from Till’s market.”

“Mushrooms!” Pat shouted. He lost himself and began to dig faster, hacking again at the stone and threatening to shatter whatever lay beneath it.

“Pat, stop!” said Becca. She regretted the angry tone that crept into her voice. Pat needed to feel useful. He was here supposedly because he was much stronger than Becca and could reach the salvage items quicker. He was stronger than she, and quite a few others, but his unfocused strength was quickly becoming more liability than aid.

“Hey, I have an idea,” she said. Pat brightened. “Why don’t you go get the wagon? This looks like it’s armor, and could be heavy. I may need you to lift it out of the ground, but I’ll definitely need you to put it in the wagon.”

“Okay!” said Pat. He bounded away, dropping his shovel. Becca smiled at his retreating form and set to work clearing more of the shale away. It would take him only a few minutes to retrieve the wagon. In the meantime, she had to get the metal piece mostly clear.

It didn’t take her long,
Comma splice
once Pat was gone and she was able to clear away the stone without having to stop and correct him every few minutes. Becca had cleared away a good chunk of the dead rock well before her brother arrived again, pulling the wagon behind him.

“It is a helmet,” he said. He crouched and stared as Becca gingerly took the nose guard in one hand, and the gryphon crest in the other and worked them back and forth, further loosening the dead earth around it. Pat gazed transfixed until it was free.

“A whole helmet!” he exclaimed. “We’re rich!”

“Calm down,” said Becca. “It’s not whole, Pat. Look. It’s missing a cheek guard, and the gryphon’s eyes used to be stones. See?” She pointed at the hollows of the gryphon’s eyes. “They probably had rubies in them. Ronan’s armies liked red.”

Pat’s face fell a bit. “Oh,” he said. “I bet only Ronan was rich enough to have real rubies in his helmet.”

“No,” said Becca. She held up the helmet to what little light there was and pulled her knife from her belt sack. As she cleaned the black dirt from the grooves and ridges in the lobstered neck guard, she patiently explained the old story again to her brother. “Rubies were more common back then,” she said. “Still pretty valuable, but richer soldiers could still afford to put them on their armor. Knights definitely could.”

“This was a knight’s helmet?” asked Pat.

“Could have been,” she said. She kept cleaning at the mud. “Not like it really matters, now.”
The residue on the metal has been variously shale, black dirt and mud (presumably dried). I'd have expected it to be fairly uniform. And while there was a chance the cheek piece's rivets had given way during the extraction, wouldn't she have rooted around in the dirt for a while, hoping to find it? It would significantly increase the value of the find (even if the rubies had probably long been prized out as portable wealth)
“If he had a helmet on,” said Pat. “How’d he die? Doesn’t a helmet protect you?”

Becca sighed. Trying to explain it in terms Pat would understand was like trying to gather water with a fish net.
Incomprehensible simile (fie on its own, but what results could you get?)
You might get results, but not the ones you were looking for.

“Helmets only protect the head,” she said. “And even then, there are things that can break a helmet.”

“Like what?”

“Like a sword, swung really hard,” she said. “Or an axe.” Her teeth were starting to grind together.

“If a sword can break a helmet, what good was it to wear one?” He had started asking questions, and wouldn’t stop until she could satisfy every last one.

“Well,” she said. “Let me ask you something. Do your hands get sore when you carry firewood in from the yard?”

“Sometimes,” said Pat.

“Right, even though you wear Da’s old gloves.”

“When I don’t wear the gloves I sometimes get splinters.”

“So, there you go,” said Becca.

Pat was silent for all of a minute.

“But what’s that got to do with helmets?”

“Just put this in the wagon and let’s go,” she said. With another sigh, she handed the helmet to Pat, who didn’t notice that Becca had been holding it aloft unaided and obviously could have put it into the wagon herself.

She glanced at today’s haul. One helmet, what looked like it might have been the quillion of a sword, but could also have been part of an ox-bow; it was too rusted and incomplete to tell, some iron crossbow bolts and the axel
axle
of an old wheelbarrow. She would be lucky to get them five copper shillings for the other items put together. The helmet was the richest part of it.

“I’ll ask a silver mark for it,” she said.

“Think there’s a spirit in there?” asked Pat.

“If there is, they better speak up soon,” said Becca. “Otherwise, it’s going to market.”

The light was dimming, but the two of them kept on, Pat pulling the wagon and Becca clunking her shovel in the rocky ground every few steps, listening for the tell-tale hollow thunk noise that indicated there was more than shale packed beneath it. She kept one ear open for other noises, for rumblings in the ground other than those the wagon’s wheels made. There weren’t any, at least for now.
 
I do like the concept of scavaging a battlefield, but this is slow for me too, maily because of the dialogue. I think you're holding our hand too much. Trust the reader to piece the stoy together. I'd like to be closer to one of them too. I guess Becca is the main POV? Was hard to tell for too long, IMO.

What age group is your audience? The word choice and sentence structure sounds like middle-grade?
 
Last edited:
There are some nice images and turns of phrases in this - I like the attention to detail to the armour.

However, all the time I was reading I kept waiting for it to "start". By that I meant the tension of conflict that is going to drive the story. I don't mean an action sequence - simply doubt, uncertainty, fear, that every good protagonist will have - especially when the stakes are made clear.

I didn't see any suggestion of tension, conflict, or stakes at all here.

There's also a very modern feel to this - if you hadn't said otherwise, I would have thought we were reading a Young Adult fiction novel in the modern world.

I think if you look at this again, and try and push some stakes and tension in, you could bring this section much more alive. At the moment you just have two people digging for stuff. That in itself isn't very exciting. So why are they digging? Just to make money? Why? Are their lives in danger, either from starvation, failure to sell, vengeance from the gods, etc?

If there is no risk at all, then you need to ask why this is going to be of interest to the reader (that's precisely why Indiana Jones starts as it does - by repeated use of "risk of death" it creates a very visual tension that draws the view in - character tension and conflict will do this in a novel).

My initial thought is that there's too much dialogue - you especially do not need a conversation about why helmets are used for protection - and that if you strip this away and push in some stakes, you'll have something to grab.

The references are interesting, but IMO this piece needs a lot of cutting and condensing, and an eye for tension.

That's not to say this is a bad piece - I think your writing here looks very competent to me (and far more than I had in a first draft). So you've definitely got the ability, and I think you are at the better end of aspiring writers. The problem is that I think you need to be more aware of the tools of writing - to know how and why you can make something interesting to a reader. It's the lack of these tools that I really notice.

Not a bad piece at all, but for commercial standard work I think you're going to have to look at this with a more brutal eye for editing, and read up on the different tools of the writer (Save the Cat is a good concise one to start with, and especially discusses tension and conflict and stakes).

Hope that helps.
 
I won't break it apart because others are much better at advising what works and what doesn't. I agree about the tension and the hook. There could have been a little less dialogue and a little more left to the imagination. One of the hardest things I find in writing is telling less and showing more.

All in all, it was an ok set up. I like the idea and am interested what its all about
 
I did read it all, which I don't do with every excerpt put up here, but I didn't get a real sense that this scene put us on a path to anywhere. There's not really a sense of what's at stake. Yes, they stand to make money from what they unearth, but we don't know how hard up they are, how much they're depending on what they might get from this particular find. There's nothing yet to provide any possible answer to the question: why start the story here? If the helmet is significant, then I think you're not doing yourself any favours by downplaying it, as Becca does. As readers, we want to be excited, but I agree with the Judge that there isn't really anything in this scene as it stands to bring that about.

I was intrigued, though, by the last couple of lines. What rumblings might she be listening for? I think you might do better to get that mystery in earlier on.
 
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I get the feeling that I'm coming across as wordy. This is really only a piece of a chapter, I really would have liked to post the whole thing (yes, I did initially, but I scaled it back after realizing the mods said 1500 words or less). But, I suppose if you're not at all interested after the first few paragraphs, I haven't done my job.

I decided not to go overboard in the description right off the bat. The description of the terrain does come, and in this chapter, but after the 1200 word mark. I just didn't want to start right off with description, but get right into the dialogue. Maybe I was wrong to do that.

As for Becca...well, she's certainly no saint. Neither is Pat, really, but he's a bit closer. Becca is cynical, defeatist, snarky and foul-mouthed. These opening paragraphs have her with the one person she truly loves unconditionally. This starts to come across in her conversation with a spirit, which unfortunately comes after the 1200 word mark.

Really, I have never considered 1200 words all that much (what would that be, about three pages?), and I would say I have read numerous works that enthralled me that started in much the same way as what I've written.

As for the "voice", I deliberately decided that I was not going to have these characters speaking in florid, period-sounding dialogue. They have grown up rough, starvation never far away, and plunder always a possibility. The dialogue may sound more modern, but that's the voice I was going for in the case of these two. Same with the names. In other parts of the story, set in richer parts of the continent, the "voice" is much different. If it sounds "young adult" so far it may be because the characters are 16 and 19, but trust me, that's not the entire tone.

However, much of the critique here shows me that I do need to tighten up and do more to get the voice and characters across, and lots more valuable stuff.
 
I kinda feel like I should email people some partials. It's valid that what I have put here doesn't seem to mean much, but again, it's 1200 words. I don't know what that would be in page count, but it can't be more than about three or four, maybe five at the outside. I don't think I've ever put a book down in three to five pages, which many of you seem to be suggesting you would.
 
Personally, I've put books down after the first paragraph... More importantly, so do agents. They need to be intrigued from the get-go, and if you've not shown them something to keep them reading within the first page (I use a rough guide of 250 words to a page) they will just give a form reject. That "something" can be a real grabby opening, a lovely phrase, an unusual character or situation, crisp writing etc etc, but it needs to be there. This isn't bad writing by any means, but to me it's not got that spark which is needed -- and reading everyone's comments, I'm not the only one to think this.

Don't get too dispirited by the reactions you've had -- the good news is we are all more or less saying the same thing, so you can easily see what needs to be done.

And I know it's only said in frustration, but obviously don't send any of your work to members unless they specifically request it.
 
Personally, I've put books down after the first paragraph... More importantly, so do agents. They need to be intrigued from the get-go, and if you've not shown them something to keep them reading within the first page (I use a rough guide of 250 words to a page) they will just give a form reject. That "something" can be a real grabby opening, a lovely phrase, an unusual character or situation, crisp writing etc etc, but it needs to be there. This isn't bad writing by any means, but to me it's not got that spark which is needed -- and reading everyone's comments, I'm not the only one to think this.

Don't get too dispirited by the reactions you've had -- the good news is we are all more or less saying the same thing, so you can easily see what needs to be done.

And I know it's only said in frustration, but obviously don't send any of your work to members unless they specifically request it.
No, no, definitely not. I would only send it if someone PM'd me and said "send a copy to this address."

I'm not exactly dispirited. I see a lot of useful comments that I will implement, such as a different opening with an immediate hook to draw in the reader. Just a few of the comments, like Becca's alleged sainthood or whether or not the helmet is significant (it's not) would be answered very, very quickly, so I wanted to address that.

Basically I think if I follow the advise of tightening it up and not focusing so much on minutiae like the helmet, most of the other issues would be addressed.
 
One other thing, one that is described quite clearly later:

Yes, Pat is not right in the head. He's 19 and very strong, but has the mind of a small child.

As for the battle that took place there...it wasn't recent, and the heath is huge. Settlements are scattered far and wide and each have about ten to twenty people tops, so, really, there aren't that many people Becca and Pat run into (later that's made very clear). Basically imagine a land that's about half the size of the USA but populated by a few handfuls of people, each of which is comprised of fewer and fewer people each year as sickness, starvation and plunder kill them off.
 
I think I'm gonna have to downplay the helmet a bit more. Yes, it has significance in introducing us to the idea of Ronan Gryphonhook, who is expanded upon in further chapters, but...that's it. A few of you have seized on it as a really significant find, when it really isn't. There are other helmets out on the heath, many of them rusty and quite a few far less intact. The only thing that really sets this apart is how complete it is, not that it's a helmet at all. A much, much more significant find comes a few paragraphs later.

See, in this world, scavengers like Becca look for stuff they can sell, trade or use. In these communities, an ancient helmet like the one they find would only be useful to a collector or someone would could melt the mettle down. The iron and steel by itself isn't worth much to anyone, and with the rubies gone, the most precious stone has basically turned this helmet into a hunk of metal, as far as those in her settlement would be concerned. It would be a bit like finding an old Winchester but no ammo, missing the firing mechanism, and take it to a refugee camp and try to act like you've found something significant. Again, though, you've showed me how much I need to change the way it's presented.
 
Yeah, I was under the impression that the helmet had a major role. Ie, it would do something if worn, or the soldier it belonged to would possess the wearer..that kind of thing...and I liked that idea. You could leave it in but mention melting it down or something I suppose to show its significance lies in its weigh in steel or something
 
Yeah, I was under the impression that the helmet had a major role. Ie, it would do something if worn, or the soldier it belonged to would possess the wearer..that kind of thing...and I liked that idea. You could leave it in but mention melting it down or something I suppose to show its significance lies in its weigh in steel or something
The helmet, no. What they find next, oooooh yes...
 
I kinda feel like I should email people some partials. It's valid that what I have put here doesn't seem to mean much, but again, it's 1200 words.

You're missing the point - your story does not start at 1500 words - it starts at the first word.

And stop trying to explain the story - the story is supposed to do that. :)

It really is best just to digest what people have said, and not look to do anything as yet. Taking a critique at any time can be a little hard - no one understands the story or the context, so some criticisms will necessarily reflect that. And taking a crit for a first time is probably the hardest.

Let things sink in, think around the comments and the story, and some comments will start to make more sense than others and you'll start seeing ways to apply them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads


Back
Top