"Schools" in Fantasy

[lonewolfwanderer]

I would like to know, if schools ever feature in fantasies. I don't mean like mage college or places for those "special" people, but ordinary schools where one goes just to learn to read, write and whatever else.

I know that Scholars do exist in some, or most, fantasies but I mean something based on the schools we know of and use today.

So, do "schools" ever feature in Fantasies?

 

[Abernovo]

If you mean in High or Epic Fantasy, I don't know, as I don't read much of it, as a rule. But, if it's for your own project, then I'd say go for it. Schools exist in our reality, so why wouldn't you want to include them in your story?

It does depend upon your setting, though. The 'modern' school wasn't much of an idea until the late Middle Ages in Europe, so you'd need to tweak the setting if you had a an early mediaeval society setting, as many fantasy novels do. You could have tutors, or guild schools, which teaches its students reading and writing along with the requirements of the guild - and the guild doesn't have to be magical, it could be a trade guild or agreement, similar to those of the Hanseatic merchants in Europe.

Perhaps you could have a charitable school, dedicated to teaching promising children from less privileged backgrounds. Some of the independent schools in the UK started out like that, which is kind of ironic.

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

If you mean in High or Epic Fantasy, I don't know, as I don't read much of it, as a rule. But, if it's for your own project, then I'd say go for it. Schools exist in our reality, so why wouldn't you want to include them in your story?

It does depend upon your setting, though. The 'modern' school wasn't much of an idea until the late Middle Ages in Europe, so you'd need to tweak the setting if you had a an early mediaeval society setting, as many fantasy novels do. You could have tutors, or guild schools, which teaches its students reading and writing along with the requirements of the guild - and the guild doesn't have to be magical, it could be a trade guild or agreement, similar to those of the Hanseatic merchants in Europe.

Perhaps you could have a charitable school, dedicated to teaching promising children from less privileged backgrounds. Some of the independent schools in the UK started out like that, which is kind of ironic.

Well, I'm still building my setting, so it's hard for me to say. However, the only school seen in the story at the moment is the one early on. It will "feel" like the modern school, but with a few differences that will reflect the setting it is in, once I've got the setting in concrete that is.


May I just ask the difference between High and Epic Fantasy? and how they differ from normal fantasy?

 

[AnyaKimlin]

There's one in mine but my fantasy isn't based in the medieval world. In later stories it will incorporate some meditation, martial arts that leads to magic, and classes teaching them how to transform into birds/insects etc but in the first story it is just a standard school as we would know it.

 

[Montero]

Define "normal"

High/epic - generally has a medieval type setting. I think there are definitions of this in Wikipedia - or all over SFF Chrons - try searching for it. I know there are threads on it and a range of opinions.

Historical fantasy - can be medieval, can be 17th century or a bit later.

Once there is a lot of industry and steam powered machinery it is heading towards steampunk I think - but someone else would know that better than me.

In terms of schools in fantasy - well you get a lot of bardic type schools. Tanya Huff for example in the "Quarters" series has the bards/mages (they sing their magic) returning to the headquarters/training school.

 

[Tecdavid]

The only problem with "normal" schooling, in fantasy, is that if it's handled exactly as schooling's handled in the real world, the reader might grow bored. Of course, this all depends on what you do with it! An example, I think, would be if several chapters were dedicated to Character A looking over his math notes, half-way through a story we're well aware features dragons, magics, and the sort. Basically, fantasy and science fiction are fun little bits of escapism to enjoy, and so too much of the mundane world, handled in a mundane way, might be a bit off-putting.

 

[monsterchic]

The only problem with "normal" schooling, in fantasy, is that if it's handled exactly as schooling's handled in the real world, the reader might grow bored. Of course, this all depends on what you do with it! An example, I think, would be if several chapters were dedicated to Character A looking over his math notes, half-way through a story we're well aware features dragons, magics, and the sort. Basically, fantasy and science fiction are fun little bits of escapism to enjoy, and so too much of the mundane world, handled in a mundane way, might be a bit off-putting.

This. I would put a book down if it had even a page of going over math notes...it's not exactly what you'd call a favorite subject

If you can make it interesting, though, go for it!

 

[Hex]

YA fantasy etc is full of schools -- because that's what the characters tend to be experiencing.

Off the top of my head, see, um... Skinned by Robin Wasserman, or Shadows by Robin McKinley. Also: Twilight, The Vampire Diaries.

There are bits set in colleges in Alphabet of Thorn (Patricia McKillip) and various other books that I can look up if you like.

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

The only problem with "normal" schooling, in fantasy, is that if it's handled exactly as schooling's handled in the real world, the reader might grow bored. Of course, this all depends on what you do with it! An example, I think, would be if several chapters were dedicated to Character A looking over his math notes, half-way through a story we're well aware features dragons, magics, and the sort. Basically, fantasy and science fiction are fun little bits of escapism to enjoy, and so too much of the mundane world, handled in a mundane way, might be a bit off-putting.

Ye that is true, but in my story it just indicates that there is a school (goes into a little bit of detail as seen through the eyes of the MC) and maybe has a few scenes which involve the school. Most of the other stuff is when he's out of school, and later on when he's left school completely. But all in all, the school setting is only early on in the WIC.

 

[RogueShaman]

Hmm, I imagine schools to have the appearance of workshops if there is craftwork involving (think master and apprentice). Military colleges would have wooden wasters, dussacks and mannequins posted around (though it may change depending on what is specifically taught).

Some education would be outside i.e. field studies. Perhaps paper would be scarce but vellum scrolls would still be around in religious buildings (think monks/clerics).

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Didn't Buffy go to Sunnydale?

I suspect if you write schools then you're probably writing YA. Schools aren't really a huge part of life for most adults. I have got some schools in my writing, but only in an incidental sort of way.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

Hi,

Didn't Buffy go to Sunnydale?

I suspect if you write schools then you're probably writing YA. Schools aren't really a huge part of life for most adults. I have got some schools in my writing, but only in an incidental sort of way.

Cheers, Greg.

I'm not sure if it's YA or not because as I said above, the guys only in school for the first few chapters. For the rest of the story, most likely, he will not even go near a school.


Only reason I started with the school is because it's what was in my head at the time and it seems to work for the introduction of the main character and his girlfriend that leaves school with him. Also gives the guy something to do when I'm not writing, he he.

 

[Ivanya]

Is your story a modern day one set on Earth? If so, it's probably not what you'd call Epic High-Fantasy, since that'd be off in some other world far removed from what we know. If it is castles, swords and sorcery type stuff, a lot of kids might be home-schooled, or if they were rich have a tutor come in to see to their education, or maybe not even have a proper education at all.

Since you mention he's off with his girlfriend, I'm thinking you're going for something more modern though, in which case yes, plenty of stories have schools in them.

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

Well, it's not earth, it's another dimension; another world. There will be things like magic and stuff like that, but it'll be subtle or limited to a select few, yet will be known around this world.


Now there is a modern touch to it, but it isn't like Harry Potter or Twilight where it's set in a modern world. I can't really give details, as I am still working it all out but technology will be minimal and crude (think Cold War, or before), and (i'm still working on this) but the tech might be built around magic, as opposed to science. The school is there, but mostly as a starting point. Once he has left the school to embark on his journey, there will be little, if any, reference to a school for the remainder of the story.


Now, I mentioned in my previous post that he leaves the school with his "girlfriend". That was a mistake. Its merely a girl he met at school, that he gets close to, and she accompanies him on the journey. There is only a friendship element at the moment, but that will evolve as the story goes on.


From the description above, it won't be high or epic fantasy. I actually don't know what genre it is, and probably won't until its finished. It is aimed in the fantasy direction tho, so that much is true.


Thanks for the replies guys...

 

[sknox]

What you think of as "school", lonewolfwanderer, is a public school, invented in the 19th century. Schools earlier than that were somewhat different to very different, depending on what you want to focus on.

College was little changed going all the way back into the Middle Ages.

There was no such thing as "high school" or indeed anything close to it. It was not at all unusual to find youths of fourteen in a college.

One important difference: colleges were male only. Period.

Grammar schools did exist, as did arithmetic schools, aimed at children from around seven to around twelve. Some, a few, of these could be co-educational.

Given what description you have provided, I'd say you are thinking of a modern public school. Which puts it outside the realm of high fantasy, imo. Modern fantasy, urban fantasy, somewhere in there.

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

What you think of as "school", lonewolfwanderer, is a public school, invented in the 19th century. Schools earlier than that were somewhat different to very different, depending on what you want to focus on.

College was little changed going all the way back into the Middle Ages.

There was no such thing as "high school" or indeed anything close to it. It was not at all unusual to find youths of fourteen in a college.

One important difference: colleges were male only. Period.

Grammar schools did exist, as did arithmetic schools, aimed at children from around seven to around twelve. Some, a few, of these could be co-educational.

Given what description you have provided, I'd say you are thinking of a modern public school. Which puts it outside the realm of high fantasy, imo. Modern fantasy, urban fantasy, somewhere in there.

Hey, thanks for the heads up... ye, I reckoned it wouldn't have been high/epic fantasy anyway. I'll probably have to wait until the WIP is completed before it can be classed as anything. Other than fantasy, I couldn't really give it a genre at the moment.

 

[Montero]

Couple of thoughts:

1. The first page, the first paragraph even may be all an agent/publisher/reader looks at in order to decide whether to read further. If first paragraph seems YA, and it subsequently isn't YA, then you could have trouble selling it. Just a comment on how to slant things.

2. In your world building, think about the economics. Schooling costs quite a lot to provide and also means the person being schooled is not earning. Also, Universities when they started (approx 14th century in the UK) were theological colleges, teaching Latin, Greek, Hebrew for reading the scriptures. Rich men's sons were educated there for the languages, with no intention for most of them for joining the clergy. Initially, the money came from the King, the Church and pious donations from the rich. Thinking Oxford and Cambridge, the colleges became property owners in their own right (thanks to said donations) and started having their own independent income. The range of subjects studied broadened, often because the lecturers and students were curious about the world around them and essentially had the leisure to look at other subjects. Not entirely relevant to your school question (got carried away there) but should give you some idea of what to think about. Many grammar schools were also founded by one or more rich benefactors. Initially teaching was often in a great hall, with niches where the master for each class sat, with the class sitting on the floor, or at desks, in front of him. Not separate classrooms for each class.

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

Couple of thoughts:

1. The first page, the first paragraph even may be all an agent/publisher/reader looks at in order to decide whether to read further. If first paragraph seems YA, and it subsequently isn't YA, then you could have trouble selling it. Just a comment on how to slant things.

Does this include the prologue? Because the prologue in the WIP is something on the lines of David Eddings where it explains some of the backstory, lore or history leading up to the start of the book.
Furthermore the first chapter starts off with a dream of the past, which sort of sets the tone for the overall story before going onto the starting place, which for this story is the school. Don't know why, its just what was in my head when I began writing it...

2. In your world building, think about the economics. Schooling costs quite a lot to provide and also means the person being schooled is not earning. Also, Universities when they started (approx 14th century in the UK) were theological colleges, teaching Latin, Greek, Hebrew for reading the scriptures. Rich men's sons were educated there for the languages, with no intention for most of them for joining the clergy. Initially, the money came from the King, the Church and pious donations from the rich. Thinking Oxford and Cambridge, the colleges became property owners in their own right (thanks to said donations) and started having their own independent income. The range of subjects studied broadened, often because the lecturers and students were curious about the world around them and essentially had the leisure to look at other subjects. Not entirely relevant to your school question (got carried away there) but should give you some idea of what to think about. Many grammar schools were also founded by one or more rich benefactors. Initially teaching was often in a great hall, with niches where the master for each class sat, with the class sitting on the floor, or at desks, in front of him. Not separate classrooms for each class.

Ye the school itself will still take its ultimate shape in the final stages of writing. At the moment it very much represents a high school/college combo with traits from both. I haven't thought of the funding of the school at the moment, and I don't think that will be too relevant to the story as once my MC has left (he doesn't actually finish, action begins before that) he won't be around another school for some time.
Funding behind the school or, more precisely, the funding behind the MC's schooling is still unclear and will be relevant because it will affect how the guy lives as he travels in the start of the journey. The guy's practically on his own, so I'm not too sure how he pays for the schooling, but that will come to me in time. Your info is in my head now, so when the time comes my mind will give me an idea.

Also, in my story the regions are pretty much all different. Each with their unique characteristics, so some will be more "modern" than the rest with some showing similarities to a place in a High/Epic Fantasy. Of course this does complicate the story somewhat, but I don't have to worry too much about the other regions just yet (my current WIP is only the first part/novel, and the MC will only go as far as maybe two of the regions other than his homeland).

I tend to write a bit more spontaneous, but that was already mentioned in another thread of mine.

And thanks for the info, it'll be of use as I write.

 

[mosaix]

I would like to know, if schools ever feature in fantasies.

Ever read the Gormenghast trilogy?

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

Ever read the Gormenghast trilogy?

Not yet, is it good?