Old names for new things

[oranges]

In a prehistoric world, they may encounter things which don't have antique sounding names, so I wonder how to indicate to the reader what the people are seeing, without being cumbersome.

In paleolithic times, there are indications that several species--or subspecies-- of genus Homo co-existed and interacted.

In a story set in paleolithic times, some Homo sapiens might enslave a Homo heidelbergensis. That species was named after the modern city of Heidelberg, and might sound anachronistic.

So my solution would be that one character explains the name to another character. And obviously they aren't speaking English.

"He is a Heidelbergensis. Hei--One who resembles a man; Delbe--One who can be induced to do physical labor; Rge--One who lives on the other side of the valley; Nsis--One who was brought here by the red-headed traders."

Would that be all right?

Would it be annoying if I did the same for other creatures they encounter, inventing etymologies for some extinct beasts like Elasmotherium?

Sometimes I'll just use the modern name if it's not too familiar-sounding.

And Neanderthal is so familiar, it doesn't seem too reminiscent of the Neander Valley where the first Neanderthal was discovered.

As for Hobbits--Tolkien's estate didn't want people using the name, though the word existed before Tolkien wrote. I'm wondering about calling them Flores, though that's a homonym for "floors."

Another problem is indicating to the reader which region of the prehistoric world is being referred to--Beringia, Florida, Spain, etc.

Thanks.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

"He is a Heidelbergensis. Hei--One who resembles a man; Delbe--One who can be induced to do physical labor; Rge--One who lives on the other side of the valley; Nsis--One who was brought here by the red-headed traders."

Would that be all right?

I believe that's the point at which I would throw the book violently at the far wall.

Clearly, they didn't have that word back then, and to have characters of that time using the word and passing it off as their own with an outlandish translation would make me nuts. Unless, of course, you're writing comedy and intend all of it to be hysterically funny. It does read like Douglas Adams or Monty Python.

Have you, by any chance, read Piers Anthony's Geodyssey series? It might be useful.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Using latin names would be a big turn off because it's so anachronistic. Think about it - you have early humans using Roman terms.

I'm not sure if helpful, but the only early human fiction I'm personally familiar with is Jean Auel's Earth's Children series. However, while Neanderthals are a feature, I'm not sure she differentiates between different types of early human.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

She does, Brian. But the Homo Sapiens call the Neanderthals "flatheads" because of their sloping brows.

Oranges, you'd have the same problem with, say, sabretooths. You might want to include them, but to call them SABREtooths before sabres are invented...

Call them longtooths, or knifetooths, or bladetooths, or axetooths, or...you get the idea...

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Actually while it might seem completely odd to mention a science fiction book as a point of reference, it might be an idea to look at Dark Eden -- he has a group of humans cut off who have come up with names of plants and the world around them so eg the sky is the starry-swirl (or something like that). I found it really interesting in terms of how he did that.

I think I'd second the use of anything too complicated -- language evolved to become complicated, surely, but didn't start that way?

I've read Earth's children a long time ago and she has two types of prehistoric man, the flatheads/Neanderthals and what I assume are Homo Sapiens. The books get unfairly trashed, in my opinion. They're not great and they descend into romance, essentially, but they're interesting in the way they present society and worth a look at, particularly the first.

 

[Ogma]

As others have said, using the latin names is perhaps not a good idea. If I read the Heidelbergensis example, it would rip me out of the story, and the explanation would become a sort of bad pun.


Even if you could use the latin names, you are making the assumption that the reader knows what these terms already. Take your example of the Flores. Whatever name you choose for them, you still have to describe them. Otherwise you are leaving people unfamiliar with Homo floresiensis in the dark.


Good made-up names could tell the reader a lot about the creature and their relationship to your mc's people.


So why not give them new names, and if you are really worried people will struggle to identify the actual creatures put a glossary at the back.

 

[Laeraneth]

Using terms like that would be way too anachronistic for me...

As a sort of counterpoint, I keep having problems trying to think of ways to NOT use terms that we take for granted for my current work, because in that world, they wouldn't exist.

Example: Before people discovered magnetism and compasses and so on, what did they call North?... East and west are easy (assuming the sun rises and sets in those places), but North and South?... the best I could come up with thus far is 'shading' (ie, it's the direction shadows point: South if you're in the southern hemisphere, north if you're in the north) and... you know, I don't think I ever settled on anything satisfying for 'noonsun-wards', for lack of a better term!)

(If anyone has any great suggestions... feel free )

Similarly, I've been trying to avoid words that have roots in some of our own past languages or stories, of course, this is a slippery slope and 'realism' has to give way to reason at some point... otherwise you have to write the whole thing in a language no one knows
At the moment, I'm just trying to avoid terms like "herculean effort", for a quick example.

 

[Kissmequick]

There is an old word (septentrion) meaning the region of the north that comes from the seven stars of the plough constellation. Have you thought of using something like that? Maybe Plough-ward or something?

And yeah you can go too far with trying to avoid words that have modern associations. If you haven't had Rome yet, can you use lunar? Or lunacy? If Sardinia has yet to be founded/named, can you have sardonic? Don't send yourself doo-lally! Pick a level and stuck with it, imo.

PS The use of north and south predates compasses anyway, so you may be overthinking it! It seems it meant/came from:

possibly ultimately from PIE *ner- "left," also "below," as north is to the left when one faces the rising sun

 

[Laeraneth]

Interesting! I was unaware of that north/south detail, thanks! I do have a couple of ideas for other direction references that DO work with the cosmology of the world, but haven't decided what is best to use just yet.

I am overthinking it, but it's going to be a world I plan to be 'living in' for many years to come so I figure the constants of its existence are essential to get right early on.

Ironically, it also has no stars, moon, or cosmology that has a direct analogy to our own. So lunar, lunacy, and all such connected words are a no go immediately. (I have alternates, based on their 'cosmology')

I never even considered that sardonic might come from the country name... mind blown!
Though that is a good example of a step too far, it's used commonly enough to just be a normal word to my mind.

Lunacy however, is directly tied to phases of the moon in it's origin, so has to go, as the world doesn't have one! Fortunately, 'madness', or 'mania', or others will suffice in most cases, and there is a specific alternative based on the cosmology of the world.

 

[Phyrebrat]

If the voice of a prehistoric society is in modern english, isn't the idea of anachronisms moot?

pH

 

[hopewrites]

If you are really worried about referencing people back to what you are talking about, I would put a guide up in the forward or something. Use names that would make sense to your characters in the text, and then have a reference guide for those who are truly captivated by your work to go and look up the fascinating peoples you based your work from.
Earths Children, as mentioned above, does something like. She used names for things that made sense to each tribe of people. She even has different languages featured in her book, but she does these so that the reader is always reading in English what may be spoken in one of 3-5 tongues. I dont remember that it was confusing very often.

 

[oranges]

One of the issues I wanted to use in my story is that paleontologists have found evidence of many groups interacting. Some of the names might not seem too anachronistic.

Two of the groups I've seen mentioned are Idaltu and the Red Deer People. I'm writing in English, and the latter is English already. Idaltu is unfamiliar and unLatin.

I just remembered Stephen Baxter's novel, Evolution, which I haven't seen yet. He tells the stories of several sentient and near-sentient beings, from millions of years in the past to 500 million years in the future. Google Books only gives excerpts, but he's apparently using 3rd Person Omniscient, giving scientific names and detailed descriptions.

I wouldn't go that far, but I wonder if Omniscient point of view would be a good choice. Maybe then it wouldn't be too jarring to mention the modern names. (Without bothering with the scientific nomenclature and intricate detail.)

I won't even try to imitate Terry Pratchett.

One important group in my story is the Denisovans. It does sound rather Russian. I wonder if I should mention that name just once and thereafter use whatever contemporary name the characters would be using? Or shall I just keep using that name and hope the reader gets used to it?

And would it be too jarring to use certain place names which aren't overly familiar? Toba was a major volcano, for example, but the name doesn't sound as modern as "Sumatra."

I might put in a glossary or something. Other authors have done that kind of thing.

For the languages--maybe an x for *one* click sound, and a w for *one* whistle sound and that's it.

Thanks.

 

[The Ace]

I still fondly remember the Neanderthal boy, 'Little Nose.'

Although described as a Neanderthal by the narrator, his people didn't bother to name themselves, but always kept a wary eye out for the, 'Straight-noses,' (Cro Magnons).

 

[Jo Zebedee]

A very timely blog on it by Chris Beckett ( yes, that's me sounding smug cos I mentioned him above)

Writing about Eden | Chris Beckett's Fiction