GOT Season 4: Oathkeeper (Possible Future Book Spoilers)

[juleska]

Yeah that's pretty much what I was going to say. For me the big spoiler in the most recent episode was the fact that they named the character in the credits, and that throws a big monkey wrench into one of the prevailing theories about Coldhands. Did anybody already mention this? I don't want to spoil it for those who didn't see it or haven't heard, because it's something that has a significant impact on the books (I think).

New thread?

As requested...be forewarned, for anyone who doesn't want to be exposed to ANY potential spoilers for future books beyond ADWD, stop reading now.
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I can't find the link where I originally read it now, but it's still being reported here:

https://ca.celebrity.yahoo.com/blog...eal-major-game-thrones-spoiler-131359625.html

So HBO credits the character introduced at the end of Oathkeeper as "The Night's King". Until now, one theory about Coldhands (whom we've not met in the show) is that he is more likely to be The Night's King than Benjen. While I still prefer the theory that Benjen is Coldhands, I had to admit the Night's King as Coldhands also made sense. He was a former commander of the Night's Watch, he died long ago (as Leaf told Bran about Coldhands), he would have reason to help brothers of the Watch, etc.

However....

We haven't met Coldhands in the show. I'm not sure if we will, the way things are going. But if the creep turning babies into wights at the end of Oathkeeper is the Night's King, we can be pretty sure he's not also Coldhands. And while this could be the show producers altering course from the books, they do have a sort of gentleman's agreement with Martin not to change major elements of the story. If Martin means Coldhands to be the Night's King, I don't think the producers would turn him into that monster instead. That lends a lot more credence to the idea that Coldhands is Benjen, but it doesn't explain Leaf's comment about how "they killed him long ago".

On that topic, I give you this piece of analysis written by a friend of mine:

Well, we need to consider the source, right? It's a subjective perspective. It's also an alien one. And we don't know how reliable it is.

But let's assume that what Leaf said is true. What if the he being referred to is not the body, but some kind of spirit in the body? And what if that spirit needs a particular type of physical host to get around? Say... someone of Stark blood? Trouble is, not many Starks come within this entity's reach. Oh, but hey, look, it's Benjen...

What I always come back to is that Coldhands keeps his face concealed. I think that detail's been emphasized enough to indicate that it's significant? So, why does he do it? My bet is it's because his face would be recognized. So who could he be?

He otherwise looks and acts like a (contemporary) ranger of the Night's Watch. So then I note that Benjen's fate is still a mystery. Presumably there's a reason for that also, so it all lines up. The only thing that throws it off is Leaf's remark, but we have to remember that we don't know all the rules of this fantasy universe. For all we know, we have a transmigration/reincarnation situation here. And wouldn't that allow for a Benjen Coldhands that is, in one sense, centuries old?

We just don't know what the rules are. And Martin typically uses his characters as vehicles to reveal the rules to us. We learn the rules as his vic-- characters do. This means a figure like Coldhands is very likely to have at least one such reveal built into him, so I'm always hesitant to write anything off because the "logic" isn't there. A lot of readers seem far too presumptuous about their understanding of this particular world. Martin just needs to keep it internally consistent. He's under no obligation to have it conform to reality.

So my own touchstone is always what makes the most sense to me, story-wise.

Story-wise, it makes the most sense to me that Benjen is (part of) Coldhands.

 

[juleska]

Found the original link.

This Accidental Game Of Thrones Spoiler Just. Changed. Everything.

 

[Koopa]

Srr, properly read your post instead of skimming it initially.
I've always thought Coldhands to be benjen, so i'm in agreement.

 

[Tywin]

Benjen as Coldhands is what I assumed the whole way. The connections to the Night's King however are new to me.

We know that the Night's King was a Stark who was LC of the Night's Watch, and we know that he took a walker as his queen. That he is still out there, probably as the leader of the Others, is a reveal.

With this reveal, I think we could carry on to some crackpot theories as to how Benjen could become Coldhands: specifically because of his Stark blood. The same blood as the Night's King. This would be the reason why he wasn't killed or converted to an "evil" white walker.

 

[juleska]

The theory about Coldhands as The Night King was explored in this thread (starting with the last post on page 1).

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/536211-a-new-theory-i-think-about-coldhands-spoilers.html

In any case, I don't think the show would change direction from Martin on something that significant. Changing up Robb's wife was one thing, it had no tangible impact on the story. But this one would be a game-changer if he intended the Night King to be Coldhands and the show producers said "Um, nope."

So with that....I'm fully on board with the Benjen as Coldhands theory here and that raises a lot of interesting questions about the final battle. You're going to have Bran as a Tree, Jon as a ???? and Uncle Coldhands fighting an old Stark relative. Hopefully they have Dany's dragons as I reckon they'll need them.

 

[Culhwch]

It may have been brought up elsewhere, but I was just glancing through the upcoming episode names while setting up the new thread in the show forum, and noticed that the final episode of this season is called 'The Children'...

Game of Thrones (TV Series 2011

Would that be, then, '...of the Forest', I wonder? If Bran is to meet with the Children in the final episode of this season, then it means Coldhands is not far away from making an appearance, if he retains his role as guide. And Bloodraven as well. Which sets up Bran's storyline through aDwD and potentially beyond for next season, which I assume will beat tWoW to the screen.

 

[True Southron]

Question for this thread or a new one. Just out of ignorance: was it at all clear in the books that Littlefinger and Lysa Arryn had murdered Jon Arryn?

 

[Tywin]

Yes, the crazy lady was ranting about it in the books too.

 

[True Southron]

Thank you very much Tywin.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Thank you for posting this, juleska. I always had the feeling Coldhands was Benjen and always thought it to be him, but Leaf's comment was ruining the picture somehow. I had never written it out of the question, but I could never find an alternative as to bypass that Leaf's comment. Your friend's summation provides a very good bypass for me.

 

[juleska]

Thank you for posting this, juleska. I always had the feeling Coldhands was Benjen and always thought it to be him, but Leaf's comment was ruining the picture somehow. I had never written it out of the question, but I could never find an alternative as to bypass that Leaf's comment. Your friend's summation provides a very good bypass for me.

It did for me as well! That comment from Leaf always messed with my head, as I was dead certain Coldhands was Benjen prior to someone pointing that out. The alternative theory never sat well with me, but made me doubt the other conclusion.