Why not conquer Braavos and with it the Iron Bank?

[Yog-Sothoth]

The Seven Kingdoms is hugely in debt with the IMF version of ASoIF, but unlike the latter institution the Iron Bank isn't located in the capital of a superpower, but a Free City, albeit the greatest of the free cities. Is it possible? Braavosi landmass apparently consists of a hundred or more islands so it would be quite difficult to occupy and the bankers could hop from one place to another with their wealth.

Who do you think so far in the story would have the best chance at conquering the city? Daenerys and her Dragons? Tommen and his army? Stannis and his men? Prince Aegon and the Golden Company?

 

[Boaz]

This sounds like a question for our posters who have chosen careers in the military... Tywin, josh, or even Aegon, though he's not been here in four years or more.

My opinion is that Braavos is a logistical nightmare. It is far removed from most of the other Free Cities so that supply for an overland assault would be a problem. The land approaches are through hundreds of miles of uninhabited rocky wilderness, but the final distance is through bog and marsh. And so, the Braavosi have not bothered to defend the landward approaches... their entire defense is naval based. They have a fleet of harbor galleys if anyone actually gets past the Titan.

But Braavos' location means it is also impassable from the inside. I don't know if the defense of the city would be stiffer knowing that there is no where to retreat.

In the above pic, you cannot see it, but under the Titan's girdle are a hundred murder holes from which burning pitch can be dropped on ships. And there are dozens of ballistas and scorpions in the legs. I think I remember, from Arya's arrival, that there are forts guarding each of the Titan's legs. So any attack on Braavos must first consist of an amphibious assault to capture the forts, then capture the Titan, and then force a passage against the fleet all while keeping weapon, ship, medical, and food supplies going to a remote location.

The best option to carry the city would seem to be by aerial attack. If Dany does not mind civilian casualties, then dragons could cripple the city's will to fight and probably destroy munitions, food supplies, and even ships in the dark.

I know the Free Cities constantly fight with each other, but they really don't want outsiders conquering any of them. If the Westerosi moved against Braavos, I'd expect to suddenly see an alliance between Myr, Lys, Tyrosh, Volantis, Norvos, Qhohor, and the other two cities whose names escape me. Even if they did not prevent the fall of Braavos, their combined economic boycott and state sanctioned piracy on Westeros could be catastrophic.

Yog, by the way we had a discussion, years ago, regarding how the Eyrie could be attacked.

Found it... The Eyrie.

Research Monkey happy now.

 

[JoanDrake]

There's a good reason that Switzerland has never been attacked in modern times and it's not just because it's mountainous.


Wars run on money. You can't attack the source from which you pay your soldiers or the armorers who equip them and the grocers who feed them.

 

[Koopa]

Offtopic: Braavos seems to me to be the greatest city in martin's world. It beats every other place mentoned imo. Except maybe the old Valyrian freehold capital but that was destroyed and build on slaves so....

Ontopic: Braavos itself lies not far of Storm's End, so from a geographical pov, taking braavos might work. Transport back and fro doesn't seem that hard to me. Let's say that if they really commited westeros might take braavos. Question remains wether that means they also take the iron bank. We're told the iron bank is something like a priesthood, plus we don't know how many facilities they have, outside of their probably main bank in braavos and how the money/wealth is distributed among their facilities. How their money system works.

 

[Brian G Turner]

If it has established defences, then the city is better conquered from the inside, first.

That means not launching an attack unless you know morale is already so low that defences will be left unmanned.

Even better if the city is split between factions, so you can be invited in for...er, assistance. As happened when the Crusaders conquered unconquerable Constantinople in 1204.

Other than that, great speed, cunning, subterfuge, bribery, and luck could all be used.

However, as no one in Westeros appears able to keep even that kingdom together, I doubt they can handle an expedition to Braavos.

 

[Ursa major]

The thing about banks is that most of their money is not in the bank; it's with their borrowers. And while one may, by occupying the Iron Bank, wipe out one's own debts, one would, in effect, be doing the same for everyone else, including one's foes. (Oh, and good luck borrowing more money.)


I can't help thinking that while the Iron Bank may occasionally send its employees to check on its borrowers, it probably employs Faceless Men to do the same. (If so, a surprise attack would be no such thing, even assuming it wasn't sabotaged before it really got started.)

 

[thaddeus6th]

Worth also mentioning that the advantage between besiegers and besieged swung to and fro a lot. At the start of the Hundred Years War it was with the besieged, hence the Black Prince adopting the chevauchee[sp] tactic (basically looting and burning to make the French look impotent), and at the end it was the besiegers, hence lots of towns surrendering to Henry V to save themselves being conquered.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

In the above pic, you cannot see it, but under the Titan's girdle are a hundred murder holes from which burning pitch can be dropped on ships. And there are dozens of ballistas and scorpions in the legs. I think I remember, from Arya's arrival, that there are forts guarding each of the Titan's legs. So any attack on Braavos must first consist of an amphibious assault to capture the forts, then capture the Titan, and then force a passage against the fleet all while keeping weapon, ship, medical, and food supplies going to a remote location.

The best option to carry the city would seem to be by aerial attack. If Dany does not mind civilian casualties, then dragons could cripple the city's will to fight and probably destroy munitions, food supplies, and even ships in the dark.

Or Dany's Dragons could just destroy the titan and possibly some of the ships and just move in and take over after crippling its defense systems, namely, the Titan and the fleet. But Dany wouldn't attack a city built by slaves that has banned slavery. Also, she doesn't owe any money to the iron bank (does she?)

Logistically, I think it would be a nightmare, like Boaz said. and I don't think it would be possible to get too many people into the city to spy/ conquer the city from the inside, as I Brian mentioned. How do you spy on a city that hosts and trains the greatest spies and assassins in the world?

Edit: The best course of action would be to try to Seige it out. Blockade the area just outside the Titan's reach and wait. It is mentioned that the city relies heavily on trade so cut off all its trade. It would also help to resupply your army. Any trade fleets that are coming in could be raided, or better yet, trade with them directly. Buy their goods at the same rate the Braavosi would pay so that they keep coming back and trade directly with you rather than even going in to Braavos. And if you did manage to take over the Titan, that would only help your seige.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

^She wants to be Queen of Westeros, that would be mean that Dany from the moment that she sits on the Iron Throne would inherit all of the debt incurred by Little Finger, Tywin, Stannis, etc.

That could cripple whatever reconstruction plans she might have for the seven kingdoms after victory.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

^She wants to be Queen of Westeros, that would be mean that Dany from the moment that she sits on the Iron Throne would inherit all of the debt incurred by Little Finger, Tywin, Stannis, etc.

That could cripple whatever reconstruction plans she might have for the seven kingdoms after victory.

That's true, and the Iron Bank might look at it that way, but I wonder if Dany and her Dragons would agree that Robert and Joffrey's debt is now hers...

 

[Ursa major]

That's true, and the Iron Bank might look at it that way, but I wonder if Dany and her Dragons would agree that Robert and Joffrey's debt is now hers...

...particularly as some of it will have been used to spy on her and fund an attempt to kill her.


And if the debt was to be called in, I think a financial meltdown in Braavos might be on the cards....

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

Yet as a Free City that banished slavery, they could forgive Danaerys debt based on her actions in Slaver's Bay. The bankers support of Stannis - despite him being on the ropes - shows you that they are pragmatic and sometimes put more stock in the character of a ruler than his political fortunes or the debt in question, which they could always get back through favorable trade agreements with a stable Westeros.

Not to mention the average Braavosi wouldn't look kindly upon a domestic institution pressuring a legendary liberator of slaves, that's a backlash in the making. Out of all the examples, I think she is the only one that has the man power, the weapons, and the potential local support to have her debts written off, or annex the city.

 

[jonath]

As far as capturing bravos goes. None of them have a good chance of doing that. Dany's big problem is ships, she doesn't have any and she has how many of the free companies bearing down on her. Aegon has one band of sellswords, it is the golden company granted but its one group, they would need all of the free companies and then some to capture bravos as it stands. Stannis and Tommen are half a world away, stannis is broke and tommen owes his throne to the iron bank. Cersei is dumb but she can't be stupid enough to try that.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Another thing just occured to me as well. For any army to attack Bravos, there would probably be 2 more that would come to their aid in the hopes/promise of having their debt wiped out. It seems like everyone and their cats owes something to the Iron Bank, so if, say, Stannis were attacking Bravos, Kings Landing would come to their defence, and vise versa. If it were Dany, I am sure the Yunkinsh, Meerenesse, Astapori and Qartheen would come to their aid.

 

[JoanDrake]

Another thing just occured to me as well. For any army to attack Bravos, there would probably be 2 more that would come to their aid in the hopes/promise of having their debt wiped out. It seems like everyone and their cats owes something to the Iron Bank, so if, say, Stannis were attacking Bravos, Kings Landing would come to their defence, and vise versa. If it were Dany, I am sure the Yunkinsh, Meerenesse, Astapori and Qartheen would come to their aid.

OTOH having your debt wiped is also a motivation to join a coalition attacking Bravoos, and having your debts gone AND a share of the loot is better than just being out of debt, isn't it?


I think it's crucial here to know WHERE Braavos, is getting all it's money from. Does anyone know? If it's something that can be taken from them (like gold mines) I think they may be in trouble, if it's something that's inherently theirs and theirs alone (like control of trade routes, or even the alchemistry to make gold) then they're OK.

 

[JoanDrake]

This article:




Game of Thrones: why Braavos is banking on regime change


has some rather interesting speculation in it. (It may be a spoiler if you haven't seen Season 4 or read the books)