Some questions about Catholicism (WIP-relevant)

[Mirannan]

I don't have any of this section of my WIP written, but have a very clear idea of what I want to happen during it. I have a couple of questions, though, about what happens in the Catholic Church, relating to priests.

1. Confession is basic in the Catholic Church, right? Or are priests exempt, or perhaps priests of some specific rank? (Example: cardinals are thought to be holy enough not to have to confess.)

2. Given that priests have to confess (we are all sinners, right?) who, specifically, do they confess to? Is it just any other priest, or does it need to be a superior, or some specific superior? (Perhaps next up in direct chain of command for example.)

3. (Dependent on the answer to 2. above) Who does the Pope confess to? He has no Earthly superior in the Church, after all.

4. and finally: How absolute is the secrecy of the confessional? For example, could a priest's bishop demand that he give information about some specific person's confession?

These questions are story-relevant, hence my posting here instead of Lounge. And if the questions sound flippant, it isn't intended.

 

[Victoria Silverwolf]

Some thoughts from one brought up in the Catholic Church (now a non-theist, so take this with a very large grain of salt.)

1. Nobody is "exempt" from confession. Presumably, clegy are more than usually pious, so, if anything, would feel a greater need for confession.

2. Any priest. There is no consideration of "rank" in confession.

3. Any priest, as the answer above indicates. No doubt the usual confessor will be a priest with a high rank, since this would be considered a great honor, but in theory any priest could perform this office.

The current Pope's confessor:

Personal confessor says Pope holds Croatians in high esteem - Europe - Around the globe - World - Dalje.com

4. The seal of the confessional is, in theory, absolute. Revealing even a very serious crime is forbidden. No good priest would suggest such a thing, no good priest would do such a thing. If a priest were to reveal something revealed during confession, this would be considered cause for automatic excommunication.

According to Roman Catholic canon law, "The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason." (983 §1) The confessor is always an ordained priest, because in the Catholic Church only ordained priests can absolve sins; lay confession is not recognized.
Priests may not reveal what they have learned during confession to anyone, even under the threat of their own death or that of others. For a priest to break confidentiality would lead to a latae sententiae (automatic) excommunication, the lifting of which is reserved to the Holy See—in fact, to the Pope himself (Code of Canon Law, 1388 §1).

Seal of the Confessional and the Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mirannan]

Thanks, Victoria. Just what I needed. One more thing, not directly relevant: Is the ex-Pope (Benedict XVI) still considered as being actively a priest, given that he's given up the highest office for reasons of health?

 

[alchemist]

I concur with Victoria. And priests are priests for life, regardless of health.

 

[Grimward]

Benedict XVI only resigned from the execution of his office as pope. He continues in his charge to pray for the Church and its people (this is apparently irrevocable upon assuming office; one can renounce the execution of duties, but not the charge to pray and suffer for the Church). He's still a priest, but is no longer called upon to perform any duties, active or otherwise.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Catholic churchgoer here.

I don't have any of this section of my WIP written,but have a very clear idea of what I want to happen during it. I have a coupleof questions, though, about what happens in the Catholic Church, relating topriests.

1. Confession is basic in the Catholic Church, right? Or are priests exempt,or perhaps priests of some specific rank? (Example: cardinals are thought to beholy enough not to have to confess.)

No one is "exempt" as no one is "forced". Confession, tobe valid, has to be 100% free. However, to have access to the Eucharist a catholic must have confessed (and repented) any mortal sin. To understand confession it is imperative to understand the concept of sin and the difference between a mortal and a venial sin. Mortal sin has three requirements to bedefined as such, one of which is full knowledge and understanding of the sinitself. As any sacrament, confession needs the matter (sin in this case, breadfor the Eucharist), and the subject (the faithful+priest for confession, thepriest for the Eucharist).

2. Given that priests have to confess (we are all sinners, right?) who,specifically, do they confess to? Is it just any other priest, or does it needto be a superior, or some specific superior?

They confess to other priests. Remember, the pope is a priest, and so is a cardinal or a bishop. They are all ordained the same way. So the pope will confess to another priest, whatever the priest’s “level” is in the church.

3. (Dependent on the answer to 2. above) Who does the Pope confess to? Hehas no Earthly superior in the Church, after all.

Technically the pope has everyone else as superior. He has an office as the head of the Church, but he has to serve everyone else. Being the pope “simply”means being the Bishop of Rome. The pope IS a bishop as being “Pope” is not a rank of the church. Now, the Catholic Church recognizes the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, so in practical matters he is going to lead. But ecclesiastically he’s a bishop. That’s why the Orthodox are close to the Catholics. They believe that the pope is a Bishop but they do not grant him primacy.

4. and finally: How absolute is the secrecy of the confessional? Forexample, could a priest's bishop demand that he give information about somespecific person's confession?

No. The priest has to keep confessions absolutely private, no matter what happens or who asks about it. The priests should die rather than say what happened inside the confessional. They are not allowed to discuss private informationwith the bishop, or anyone else. The faithful should keep the same privacy, but he’s not required to do so. It’s merely good manner, and a good habit becausethe priest can’t reply or defend himself. Remember that confession is not a psychological/counselingsession, although some priests try to give some good advice. Other than the penance, the faithful has no obligation toward whatever the priest says.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Thanks, Victoria. Just what I needed. One more thing, not directly relevant: Is the ex-Pope (Benedict XVI) still considered as being actively a priest, given that he's given up the highest office for reasons of health?

In the Church, a priest is a priest forever, exactly as someone married is married (until death) or baptized forever.
Being ordained is a sacrament, so it can't be revoked.
However there the "a divinis suspension", which means the priest is not allowed to perform ecclesiastical duties.

Benedict XVI resigned from office, he did not abjure the faith. Thus he's in good standing. He chose to retire, which means he will not perform public ecclesiastical functions. However, he can still celebrate Mass (in private) or hear confessions.

 

[The Ace]

Funny that nobody's touched on this bit;

In the confessional, neither Priest nor penitent can see each other, and - of course - neither identifies himself.

While it's a fair bet that the penitent knows who the priest is (he'll hear the voice most Sundays) the priest might not necessarily be able to identify the penitent (if he has a large number of parishioners from the same family, their voices can be hard to identify).

A case in point - I have two brothers. If one of us came in through the front door, Mum would shout from the living-room, "Who's that ?" The answering, "Me," would tell her which of us it was - it's the same on the 'phone, "Just me, Mum," she'll say, "Hello [name]." Dad would need a name.

 

[Mirannan]

Sorry, but two more questions: What is the attitude of the Church towards ordained priests of other, non-Christian religions these days? (i.e. not a Mormon pastor - perhaps a Hindu priest if they have them.) I said "ordained priests" because, AFAIK, many real-world religions don't have any.

Related to that, and a highly hypothetical case: In the (probably impossible in the real world!) case that a priest unmistakeably ran into a non-evil, but decidedly non-Christian supernatural (perhaps a djinn or kami?) what is he supposed to do about it? (Or, perhaps, attempt to do.)

 

[svalbard]

There is open dialogue between the Catholic Church and other faiths. The recent Pope's have all visited Jersulam and prayed at the Wailing Wall.

As for dealing with the supernatural. Priests are taught to look for all rational reasons first before considering other options. There are trained excorcists in a lot dioceses, although the number is seemingly falling.

Though to answer your second question. A Priest like most of us would probably scream and run.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Funny that nobody's touched on this bit;

In the confessional, neither Priest nor penitent can see each other, and - of course - neither identifies himself.

That's not exact. The penitent can choose anonimity or not. A confessional has a reserved space for whoever wants to be anonymous.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Sorry, but two morequestions: What is the attitude of the Church towards ordained priests ofother, non-Christian religions these days? (i.e. not a Mormon pastor - perhapsa Hindu priest if they have them.) I said "ordained priests" because,AFAIK, many real-world religions don't have any.

Related to that, and a highly hypotheticalcase: In the (probably impossible in the real world!) case that a priestunmistakeably ran into a non-evil, but decidedly non-Christian supernatural(perhaps a djinn or kami?) what is he supposed to do about it? (Or, perhaps,attempt to do.)

You are going into dangerous territory! Well, a Mormon pastoror a Hindu are not considered ordained for the Church. This is because the ordination to be effective (i.e. have supernatural powers, or work in persona Christi has to be a “descendant” ordination of the one by the Apostles. We callit Apostolic succession. Now, (most, not all) Anglicans and (all) Orthodox bishops have kept the succession, so the Church recognizes them as true Bishops and priests but with limited legal authority. With the Orthodox it’s even simpler, as they kept almost anything of what was before they split from the Church,with the exception of the already mentioned issue with the bishop of Rome. Now,what is the difference between an “ordained” priest and the clergy of otherreligions? The sacraments. As you certainly know Catholics believe that, forexample, the bread actually becomes the body and blood of Christ. Only priestscan do that.



From a practical perspective, the Church recognizes that almost every religion bear some Truth, and this is due to the fact that since God created man (p.s. I believe in the evolution of man) He put the seed for Truth in man itself. Otherwise, being or not in the love of Christ would be subject to predestination (whichthe Church doesn’t believe). So, technically, a Muslim can be more Christianthan a Bishop!



Now, going to the supernatural question. For a Catholic there is no “white magic”, and there is no “non-evil” but non-Christian supernaturalactivity. It’s either Christian (such as the Eucharist, or some miracles) or it’s covering some sort of evil. That doesn’t mean that whoever is affected by it is evil, condemned to hell or anything. It simply means that the effect has source in the darkness. If you truly want to be scared, read father Amorth’s “An Exorcist tells his story” (Amorth is the “chief exorcist” of the Catholic Church.Now tell me that is not a title you wouldn’t want on your business card!); in his books he talks a lot about non-Christian supernatural events.

Now, it is almost impossible to discern a priori if an eventis evil or not. A ghost could be a soul of purgatory that for some reason has to pay penance that way. This is why usually the church takes forever in declaring if a supernatural event is true or false, and if it is a miracle.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Though to answer your second question. A Priest like most of us would probably scream and run.

Nah. Nowadays they just shoot a selfie and promptly put it on FB.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Nah. Nowadays they just shoot a selfie and promptly put it on FB.

I like that idea so much, I think I'll have to steal it!

 

[yaxomoxay]

I like that idea so much, I think I'll have to steal it!

Don't forget that nuns must do the duck face.

 

[Mirannan]

yaxomoxay - I was referring to the fact that some other religions don't have priests considered by people of that religion to have divine authority or a formal ceremony of adoption and some others (AFAIK) do. I was referring to priests of other religions who have taken oaths that are sacred - to them - to make them priests.

As for the business about supernatural events and/or beings being an emissary of evil, whether they actually do evil things or not, that was more or less what I thought the official position of the Church might be.

I find it interesting to wonder what a lios-alfar, yazata, kirin or deva might think about that, should any of them exist.

 

[The Ace]

Sorry, but two more questions: What is the attitude of the Church towards ordained priests of other, non-Christian religions these days? (i.e. not a Mormon pastor - perhaps a Hindu priest if they have them.) I said "ordained priests" because, AFAIK, many real-world religions don't have any.

Related to that, and a highly hypothetical case: In the (probably impossible in the real world!) case that a priest unmistakeably ran into a non-evil, but decidedly non-Christian supernatural (perhaps a djinn or kami?) what is he supposed to do about it? (Or, perhaps, attempt to do.)

I'm not sure about doctrine,but on a personal level it can be quite interesting - at my old parish in Glasgow, my Minister and the local Priest were drinking buddies, and often did pastoral visits together (imagine opening your door to find the priest and the minister on your doorstep ).

Generally, they tolerate each other in the real world.

 

[Mirannan]

Well, Ace, at least both of those were Christians. Oh, I'm aware of that; a slightly more diverse pairing is Christian priests (of whatever denomination, and I'm ignoring doctrine) and rabbis who apparently often get on quite well.